Cummins 12V 6BT swap issues with 2wd chassis

[Devillusion]

Looking at keeping my crew cab short box cummins project a 2wd for now and was wondering if there is any known issues with fitment/clearance that I should be aware of? Or am I going to have no choice but to do a 4x4? I'd really like to do a 2wd for now till I scrounge up the coin/time to do the 4 link 4x4 at a later date.

Any insight would be appreciated before I go out and waste a couple grand on a drivetrain..

thanks!

[jitteryguy]

I wanna do a 12V swap in my 2wd also, I hope some one has some good info on this !

[Chevyman350]

check out this guys build.

http://www.devilscastle.net/

[78customdeluxe]

My dually had a 12v in it before I bought the truck, then after I drove the truck a while I put another one in it. Both of us used medium duty truck motors and I THINK the pans are different than the dodge motors, but my crossmember had to be cut out and reinforced to clear the pan, but with a body lift it woulda fit just fine. Now I know there are people who have put them into 2wd trucks without doing either of those, but thats just how mine was. I'm runnin a dana 60 up front now so no worried anymore.

[lindstromjd]

6BT's are really tall engines... don't know how well the oil pan will fit with a 2wd set up unless you modify it.

[Devillusion]

But isn't it true that (I heard) you can flip the 12V pans around either way with a pickup change? Pretty sure I read that somewhere....

[lindstromjd]

Dunno. Not too experienced with the 6BT's myself, I just know from other people who've done the swap.

[thirdstreettito]

Look at the bottom of the page of the link Chevyman350 posted. The Cummins is in a 2wd 3/4 ton suburban. If it fits it that, it fits into a 1 ton CCDually. Look at all the pages on his site.

[Devillusion]

It's good information, but I'm sure alot of technology has changed since 2002 when that guy started his project. I'm not looking to create work where it isn't needed. Anything will fit, just depends if the end result is really worth it or not.

IMO the guy in that build was making way for some extreme groundwork for the rest that do it nowadays, but in this day and age he did alot of unnecassary work I think.

All the information is appreciated...just looking for the most cost effective and time constructive methods.

[thirdstreettito]

These guys should be able to help you out.

http://www.autoworldmt.com/

http://www.avalancheengineering.com/

http://www.cumminsstuff.com/conversion.htm

[Chevyman350]

for the 4x4 tech may have improved but not for the 2wd.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cu...chevy-2wd.html

Here is another 2wd conversion.

I am not trying to be a p***k but a cummins swap is hard to do "cost effectively". (ask me how i know) cummins is prowd of their stuff.

P.S. the most cost effective way is all ways duscussed and I have found that the most $$cost effecticive$$ way is to make all the parts yourself, which equals time consuming.

There are always compermises with a swap of an engine that was never offered in your body style truck. But the cummis will fit in the Square body enginebay with out a body lift, firewall hacking, and or huge frame modification but you have to do it just right.

Just my .02 and I have been working on my swap for almost 3 years now (along with some other mods.

[Devillusion]

I have built many a vehicle in my day so fabrication is not an issue what so ever. I have the mandrel bender, I have the plasma, and I have the welder and shop to do it in. But I am also a firm believer that my way is not always the best way to do things, hence the research and look at what others have done, conglomerate everything good about each build, then continue with the best path of least resistance. A person might as well learn from others mistakes/mishaps and move forward. No sense of doing over what someone else found was not the best way. There is always someone faster, there is always a better way to do things, and there is always someone who has been there done that and wished they hadn't.

Again, I greatly appreciate the links and input......it is of great help. Search isn't always your best friend. I've done it and only came up with a handful of useful informatioin till now.

thanks again....

[Devillusion]

Originally Posted by Chevyman350

for the 4x4 tech may have improved but not for the 2wd.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cu...chevy-2wd.html

Here is another 2wd conversion.

I am not trying to be a p***k but a cummins swap is hard to do "cost effectively". (ask me how i know) cummins is prowd of their stuff.

P.S. the most cost effective way is all ways duscussed and I have found that the most $$cost effecticive$$ way is to make all the parts yourself, which equals time consuming.

There are always compermises with a swap of an engine that was never offered in your body style truck. But the cummis will fit in the Square body enginebay with out a body lift, firewall hacking, and or huge frame modification but you have to do it just right.

Just my .02 and I have been working on my swap for almost 3 years now (along with some other mods.

Thanks for the build link....that cleared up some concerns I had....very nice job on that one, very clean. Pretty much exactly what mine will be except bagged, and a crew cab short.

[Chevyman350]

Originally Posted by Devillusion

I have built many a vehicle in my day so fabrication is not an issue what so ever. I have the mandrel bender, I have the plasma, and I have the welder and shop to do it in. But I am also a firm believer that my way is not always the best way to do things, hence the research and look at what others have done, conglomerate everything good about each build, then continue with the best path of least resistance. A person might as well learn from others mistakes/mishaps and move forward. No sense of doing over what someone else found was not the best way. There is always someone faster, there is always a better way to do things, and there is always someone who has been there done that and wished they hadn't.

Again, I greatly appreciate the links and input......it is of great help. Search isn't always your best friend. I've done it and only came up with a handful of useful informatioin till now.

thanks again....

Originally Posted by Devillusion

Thanks for the build link....that cleared up some concerns I had....very nice job on that one, very clean. Pretty much exactly what mine will be except bagged, and a crew cab short.

I aggrer 100% I just get annoyed all ways seeing the "cheapest" way to do things statement.

To steal a quote from tango and cash "cheap and easy is the way you bake a cake or clean a toilet bowl not the way you run a muiti-million dollar criminal enterprize" (or a truck build in my opinion)

I am currently doing an 1987 1 ton dually 2wd with a 1996 215 hp 12v with a 4l80e baged with a 4-link. I am trying to make mine look like a facory option install more or less.

As far as cummins swaps and places to do research also check out http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php

There is a 6bt swap forum and that site is dedicated to mostly cummins (and other diesel engine) swaps.

Good luck!!!

[jltait]

Devillusion,
I have been planning a first gen cummins into a R30 crew cab 2wd dually. I actually planned the same swap when I had a k20 4x4. I can tell you that after taking measurements for both I strongly believe the cummins will fit the 2wd chassis better. Should not require mods to the front crossmembers as is required with 4x4's if engine is place carefully. I will be using 2nd gen cummins engine side mounts and fabricating new frame mounst similar to the Devilcastle link posted earlier. The fit is tight betweend firewall and radiator, about a 1/2" at each end according to my mearsurements with the stock 454 4 core radiator and stock dodge clutch fan. My biggest concen going into this is the exhaust manifold clearance to the firewall and AC condensor housing. I will probably use a heat shielding on both.
JLT

[Chevyman350]

On the a/c compressor I whent the more expensive routh with the cummins "high" mount compressor bracket.

With the exhaust maniforld most go with a heat shield / insulation. Or you could take it out and go vintage air and have lots of space for I don't know, twins @ air to water intercooler, other nefarious power adders!!!

Guess which way I am going.

[Devillusion]

I hear ya......I guess I should have picked better wording. I guess what I was ultimately meaning was the smartest route.

Believe me, I don't ever take the cheapest route....lol. My last build 98% complete I'm sure has cost me well over $30,000 not including buying the truck itself in 2002. If you have a look at this months entry to the cover quest in 8LUG magazine you'll see my baby....

SAS, HPD60, 14BFF, 5.13, locked, and could go on and on and....rest of specs are in the mag. Full feature coming out this spring.





So needless to say this project won't be any different than the dozens before it. I just like to plan ahead as much as possible cause the barter system is a wonderful thing and has saved me thousands of dollars over the years.

thanks again

[Devillusion]

My thoughts are possibly leaning towards remanufacturing the firewall/tunnel and bringing the 12V rearward around 6-8" for better truck balance and ultimately giving more room up front/rear for service, and "goodies" over the years.

Either that or find a big old detroit! lol, jk.

Unsure on the AC thing though. I wonder what a vintage air system costs these days for one of these trucks? Gonna have to research that. Mine is non AC but my donor burban has everything I need. Would save some swap time I'm sure...

[Chevyman350]

Good looking truck.

There are some options for engine mounts but if your going to move the engine back 6-8 inches then you are free to make what ever you want.

I am using 2 pasengerside 24v mounts with a swaped bushing on the pasenger side to better allign up with the front suspentison cross member.

But you could use the stock 2 gen 12v mouns and flip them side to side. They woul then contact the factor vacume / powersteering pump, But if you swapped a powersteering pump for a 4bt like I did (vaccume for powering things is stupid) you could use the factory 12v mounts i think.

[Devillusion]

Yeah, I have factory hydroboost on the truck and making mounts shouldn't be an issue but time will tell. If I can't find a decent donor truck for the right price then I will be sticking a 5.3 or 6.0 in it. Either way it will get something crazy...

[Chevyman350]

The best I have seen for an engine is 1500 US.

You can get better but you have to know some one or be better at being patient than me!!!

I got mine from a used parts place. 1700 with the core charge and tax.

1996 12 valve (215 horse).

[Devillusion]

Best I have found locally is 2400 bux for a complete truck (1990) one 4x4 auto, and a 2wd standard. Both with around 270,000km on them. Will wait to see what happens, have alot to do before I have to consider the engine swap yet. Getting it laid out and sheetmetal/options swapped over from the parts burban first.