It's finally time - a new engine

[mySAVIOReigns]

So, one of my friends has (I think) about talked me into building my own engine.

I don't want anything big, just a simple 350 shall do. Although, if it's not much more, I have always loved the 383s. But I have a couple of questions. I have very minimal experience with engines. I can tell you all about how they work and all that, but I've never gone in and messed with one. Am I better off buying a crate engine? I don't want to make a 2 thousand dollar mistake. Also, how much does it cost to put one together yourself, buying all the parts, compared to buying a crate?

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

4 times it died tonight in 5 seconds - that was the last straw...new gas tanks, new lines, and maybe a new engine...

[Bishops Trucks]

If you want to play it safe you could always buy a short block and do all the upper stuff yourself. That would give you some experiance there then on the next engine try some bottom end work. Just my opinion.

[ghetto_superman]

[cliffsta]

I was told it would probably be most wise to buy a crate engine for your needs and learn with a toy or project. So many variables, and unless you match THE right parts it won't make the right power. I'd suggest going with a crate motor or a small block.

[N2TRUX]

Sorry to hear about all your frustrations Stephen. Sometimes these old trucks can be a pain. Like cliffsta if you don't have the knowledge to do most of the work yourself, it's probably best to buy a crate motor.

If you want to take the time to research a reputable machine shop in your area and get a quote on rebuilding your block you will get a better understanding of what's involved.

The problem is that if they are reputable then it will take them a while to turn your motor around and get it back to you. Consider that you have to pull the motor, take it to them and wait to get it back and install it. Can you afford to have your truck down 2-3 or 4 weeks?

If you buy a GM crate motor you can still drive your truck until the motor arrives. Unless issues pop up you should be able to install the motor over a weekend and have it running by Sunday evening.

I suggest you shop online for the best deal on GM crate motors then take that price to Summit Racing. They will match the price and ship it for free. They are large enough that they have the most common motors in stock all the time...

[Slonaker]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

I suggest you shop online for the best deal on GM crate motors then take that price to Summit Racing. They will match the price and ship it for free. They are large enough that they have the most common motors in stock all the time...

I paid $100 for shipping on mine through summit. They had the best price when I took shipping and tax into consideration.

Slonaker

EDIT: Since he lives in Texas, Scoggins Dickey probably is not a good choice since he will have to pay sales tax.

[cliffsta]

Originally Posted by Slonaker

Since he lives in Texas, Scoggins Dickey probably is not a good choice since he will have to pay sales tax.

Good call Slonaker, I didn't even think of that. Sales tax on a 1600-2000$ motor would be mighty rough.

[mySAVIOReigns]

Guys,
Thanks, this is a great help, and I appreciate all of the sources/referrals. I would have it rebuilt, but I figure, it's a 305, so rather than rebuilding, I might as well spend the extra money and get a 350. Plus, the maximum time I could go w/o an engine would be about a week, with lots of repaying to friends for rides

Cliffsta, what exactly do you mean by HO350? I assume a 350, but what's the HO stand for?
I know my stock 305 (originally as advertised) had something in the range of 130ish HP...these new CRATE engines have at least 260. Obviously this will increase my power, but will it make my gas mileage kick the bucket? I've heard a rumor that it actually sometimes helps the gas mileage.

Last, where could I get a quote for a GM engine? Jegs has the GM Goodwrench 350 package, but I'm sure this has their side of the profit on it. Thanks guys, this is helping a ton!

[Billla]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

The problem is that if they are reputable then it will take them a while to turn your motor around and get it back to you. Consider that you have to pull the motor, take it to them and wait to get it back and install it. Can you afford to have your truck down 2-3 or 4 weeks?

...or, buy a used 350 for ~$50-$150 from CL and start there. This is clearly a risk; you can end up spending $$$ on stuff that's junk when you tear it down, but used GEN Is are so cheap that it's reasonably low-risk.

[Jonboy]

What do you intend to do with the truck? If you are looking for a decently priced remanufactured engine, check out Blaines motor supply in Dallas. I have had good luck with their stock rebuild stuff, and I know they build a pretty decent stroker engine.

[cliffsta]

Give Scoggin-Dickey a shot, last I checked they have the HO350 for around 2400 and the standard 260/330 for ~1700.

I think the URL is www.sdpc.com. And check your dealer, they might be able to cut you a sweet deal on one, you never know.

[craig@ridetech.com]

You might even look into Jasper Engines and Transmissions. They do nothing but remanufactures and they have a pretty good nationwide warranty. I know several guys who have used their stuff with good luck. They will even build you a nice 383 if you want it.

[cliffsta]

High Output 350. Makes 330 horses and 380 Ft/Lb TQ. Basically, Vortec heads, upp'ed C.R., little tweaks like that. The standard crate 350 makes 260 horses and around 330-350 Ft/Lb TQ.

Stock 305 (in 1980) made 135 HP and 235 TQ (I got one, I know) which isn't very stellar. Simply putting in a standard 350 would waaay up your power. Fuel mileage, depends on the carburetor. My truck came with a POS 2-barrel carburetor. With a 4 Barrel one can baby the throttle and adjust the vaccum on the secondaries to not open up the big "barrels" and thus get better MPG than a 2 barrel with just 2 medium-sized barrels. It is possible that a new, fresh motor with a good 4-barrel will get comparable MPG as your tired 305 with (assumedly) a 2 barrel.

Ok, sorry for being so long-winded, I hope that helps some.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by cliffsta

High Output 350. Makes 330 horses and 380 Ft/Lb TQ. Basically, Vortec heads, upp'ed C.R., little tweaks like that. The standard crate 350 makes 260 horses and around 330-350 Ft/Lb TQ.

There's a pretty good thread going on about this in the Engine forum, but I would take a look at the TQ/HP curve for this engine - not really set up at all for a truck

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/GMPerfor...9711&engCat=sb

[mySAVIOReigns]

Financially, it's about a wash between doing it yourself and buying a crate engine...but IMHO crates are never EXACTLY the engine you want. Building your own you can make smart decisions on exactly the pieces you want.

You've got me there - all these ones that I'm looking at, it seems they get about 4/5 of the stuff I want, then something totally pointless or something that you ask "why?"

Thanks for the tips Billla, I'll PM you for that spreadsheet...

[kevinr1970]

Originally Posted by cliffsta

Stock 305 (in 1980) made 135 HP and 235 TQ (I got one, I know) which isn't very stellar. Simply putting in a standard 350 would waaay up your power.

I've asked about this before but never got a satisfactory answer?
My 1986 Truck with a 350 is rated at ~180hp. The standard 350 crate is rated at 260hp. Is the rating for the truck "net" (at the wheel) or "gross" (at the flyweel). Seems like it would be net and the crate would be gross as they are rating it not driving any accessories or drive train????

There is a local dealer (Jet Chevrolet) that is supposed to be the place to go locally for crate engines and while talking to the guy on the phone he said the standard 350 I would be putting in my truck would be the same power as the one I am replacing. Unless I went with the HO 290hp engine.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by kevinr1970

My 1986 Truck with a 350 is rated at ~180hp. The standard 350 crate is rated at 260hp. Is the rating for the truck "net" (at the wheel) or "gross" (at the flyweel). Seems like it would be net and the crate would be gross as they are rating it not driving any accessories or drive train????

Yes, the engine ratings for a car are SAE net and for crate engines they're HP/TQ at the flywheel. I was not able to find the specifics of the test configuration...but I have to assume that it'd done with headers, etc. Figure on ~20% powertrain loss...that number is really debatable, but it's a reasonably good rule of thumb.

Originally Posted by kevinr1970

There is a local dealer (Jet Chevrolet) that is supposed to be the place to go locally for crate engines and while talking to the guy on the phone he said the standard 350 I would be putting in my truck would be the same power as the one I am replacing. Unless I went with the HO 290hp engine.

You must be a Seattle guy Using the rule of thumb above, we can estimate that a 260 HP crate engine will make about 208 HP at the rear wheels. The 290 should be about 232..which IMHO is still not a big win for the money (+52 HP). And I've beat this to death, but the torque/hp curve for these engines is not truck-friendly IMHO.

[mySAVIOReigns]

Nope, it has a 4BBL, but i only get about 10-11 mpg. I used to get about 15, but time changed that...

[pcmcobra]

ls2!!!!!!

[magnethead]

Originally Posted by pcmcobra

ls2!!!!!!

LS7!!

LOL

[pcmcobra]

Originally Posted by magnethead

LS7!!

LOL

word!

[Billla]

Originally Posted by magnethead

LS7!!

LOL

You know, the scary thing here is that at $12K it's a good deal for a 505 HP engine that can get 24 MPG. Not cheap, but try building a 350 that makes that power level for that price...totally unstreetable. The last engine I build at that level was about $10K, so. Add in 5K for harness, etc. and you're right in there on pricing for a 640/572...

I'm actually thinking about this for my '69 Vette; I have a call into Morrison Motorsports to see if they can tweak their replacement frame for LS-style mounts.

[68Stepbed]

I used to get around 14 mpg with my 350/260hp crate engine in my 68. I personally recommend the 350 HO/330 HP deluxe engine. My dad ordered one from Summit Racing. That sucker came with everything! All we had to do was bolt the accessories on(starter, alt., PS pump, headers, A/C and all the brackets) and we were done! We did have set the dizzy back in the right spot though(they just drop em in anywhere) It even came the little stuff like pcv valve, thermostat and housing, plugs, wires, water pump, carb, dizzy, and chrome 14" aircleaner. Best deal on the market if you want my .02

If you're on more of a budget, the 260 or 290 hp engines are still good bargains. Summit Racing has the best pricing on crate engines that I've seen.

[cliffsta]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

I used to get around 14 mpg with my 350/260hp crate engine in my 68. I personally recommend the 350 HO/330 HP deluxe engine. My dad ordered one from Summit Racing. That sucker came with everything! All we had to do was bolt the accessories on(starter, alt., PS pump, headers, A/C and all the brackets) and we were done! We did have set the dizzy back in the right spot though(they just drop em in anywhere) It even came the little stuff like pcv valve, thermostat and housing, plugs, wires, water pump, carb, dizzy, and chrome 14" aircleaner. Best deal on the market if you want my .02

If you're on more of a budget, the 260 or 290 hp engines are still good bargains. Summit Racing has the best pricing on crate engines that I've seen.

They also offer (at least Summit and SDPC do) the version without the Air Cleaner, Dist. and other minor things, to save a few bucks. Just another thought.

[mySAVIOReigns]

I might consider that - I just bought a new air cleaner a few months ago.

Thanks again guys.

hahaha, LS7