Question on AD Engineerings S10 swap kit

[Matt300ZXT]

They have a page on their site where it shows an AD truck mounted directly on the frame, and how the 2.8 v6 has a huge gap between the back of the motor and the firewall, and mentions even with a v8 the 4" gap still necessitates moving any engine choice back. Do typical v8 swap kits from JTR, Transdapt, whoever fix that or are the mounts ADE makes the ones needed to help clean up the gap? Once I thought about how much it'd cost me to get a steering kit to move the box outside the frame so I could install a v8, put a more modern brake kit on my truck, and other things like that, I'd end up spending a good bit of money and still have a truck on a 50+ year old frame so I'm contemplating their kit. That's why I'm thinking spend the money from a brake kit (for just the front) and a steering conversion kit, and I'm already in the cost of the chassis swap kit, and for a couple hundred more for the purchase of a beater S10. I could have the same cool old body, but on a newer chassis with new suspension, easy v8 installs, easier wheel choices, brake kits, etc.

I'm considering instead of a v8 in this route, just finding a 4.3 S10, which is still a capable motor, but just curious if anyone has personal experience with their kit and what they did to fix the gap if they kept a 4.3 or 2.8.

[Dan Bowles]

I'm working on one now that I am NOT moving the engine back. Don't think about S10 V8 swaps because they HAVE to move the engine forward due to their bodies. ADs need them even or a bit back. My son's 54 is under 2" back but the one we are doing now is mounted with stock S10 engine mounts on the V8 and it looks good so far.

You can make mounts yourself without spending the dough on a "kit".

The issue is the narrowness of the track width. You'll need a different rear end and either spacers or deeper rims for the front.

There are tons of these swaps out there so you can get lots of info. I have kicked around the idea of making a FAQ for them but there is so much info and so much debate that you can't make "specific" answers!

You can also look at Dakotas or MIIs or crossmembers that use GM Metric parts and a stock frame.

Setting one ON the frame is very low. You'll do a lot of work on the floor and you'll need to watch how low your fenders are. My son's truck is about 4 1/2-5" from the bottom of the cab mount to the top of the frame and the fenders are 8" from the ground with a V8 and 4 speed. The S10 frame was an X cab that we shortened it. Not sure what the springs are, though, but it rides nice. You can see the build on Jalopy Journal. (Not sure if you can say HAMB, here.) Edit: Guess you can, thanks!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=137385

[Dan Bowles]

IIRC your truck is a '54 so our build may help. We kicked the radiator out at the bottom and used a stocker on the 327 in there. We trimmed the bottom air dam area of the grille in order to make it fit.

Feel free to PM me for more info or pictures. I'm glad to help on an S10 swap. I really love my son and his truck. He had it out today terrorizing in the snow until it ran out of gas! That was the goal, though. We are changing the gas tank (S10 Blazer mounted in the rear using S10 Blazer frame cross members) because it is rusty.

[Matt300ZXT]

The MII or Camaro clip is outta the question, not really into that as I would never get one of those installations right lol There are a few guys locally that have done body swaps on various cars, and a few car guy friends that know how to weld, so that'd help. I think I could get them to help me remove the cab and bed as I've already got the front end apart and set them on blocks waiting until I find a good S10 donor. Also the price I could get for scrapping that big heavy frame from the truck, I could fund a small chunk of the kit swap price.

[Dan Bowles]

The rolling chassis will get you a few bucks. Enough to pay for all of the steel you need. I'd put the money you were going to put towards someone's kit into a decent welder.

[Thadious]

I'd put the money you were going to put towards someone's kit into a decent welder.

I'm with Dan on this one. There's a guy here in town that I chat with frequently about this swap since we're both doing it. He's kinda p*ssed that he spent the coin for the swap kit and I managed to put it together with $40 bucks worth of square tubing...

IMO, keep the coin, do a little research into what others are doing... pick someone that's doing what you want yours to look like and follow it carefully, take notes and make drawings. The templates for the cab mounts are on this board, the box mounts are easy. If you want to do the kit style board mounts, just as easy! Where the complication comes in, is if you get it in your mind to veer off the beaten path and make yours unique or you find a better way to do it!

If you get stumped, holler... chances are someone has been there as well and will chime in!

If you're not sure of your fab or welding skills, get some steel to practice on and start it up... or... pick a college with some night welding fab classes. You'll be a ton further ahead!

Spend the money for someone elses fab work and keep paying, learn to do it yourself and keep the coin for stuff you need.

Just my 2 cents,
Ted.

[Dan Bowles]

Thanks for the support, Ted. I could not have said any of that better myself.

Another thing, Matt, you have a WHOLE frame you can practice welding now that you've started pulling stuff off of your truck! You can get inexpensive steel chunks at your local Tractor Supply Store and practice, practice, practice. You can start without gas backing but get a welder that has it (don't spend the money twice when you can get your tank with that money).

You can also use a cherry picker to pull the body off the frame by yourself. There are plans here for that as well.

FYI. I used the rear cab mounts on my S10 swap. The hardest thing I had was the radiator support. Can't say it was THE best methodology but it is what it is for now. I might do something different the next time.

[Matt300ZXT]

Well, I'm not opposed to using someone else's mounts they've made and want to share plans with the community...just I wouldn't know where to look. If I type in S10 swap, I'd be here for 14 days looking through all the posts and I'd go insane lol I'll try and find the plans though, just wasn't aware someone came up with their own and gave out the specs so everyone in the community could benefit. If the plans on here get the cab on the frame lined up right then I could worry about the bed later, I'm sure that's much easier to tackle than creating my own cab mounts.

[Thadious]

Jeff is a friend of mine... you may want to peruse his build thread... he gives a good setup on getting things going. You may find mine fills in some blanks as well...

Here's Jeff's thread... the mount pics are on page 1, the plans are on page 4 (if you have the latest posts at the end of the thread, not the beginning)...

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=294539

And, of course, mine is in my sig....

Cheers!
Ted.

PS Easiest way to set one of the lowest heights for the cab off the frame and still be able to deal with the front end... just use 4x4's under the cab mounts to the frame for height alignment!

[RootBeer 6117]

Matt, I am with these guys I found the AD engineering web site a few years back and really wanted to go that route but didn't have the funds and could never justify(to my wife) paying that much. Then I found this site a year ago and I changed my mind . I still have less in my build than the AD kit cost. There are a lot of great guys on here that are more than willing to help and Data galore.
These are some of the builds I used to start mine. (Sorry AD folks).

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=384736
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=294539
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...=1#post3066383
http://www.killbillet.com/showthread.php?t=16296

Joe

[54 jimmy]

i have the ad kit on my truck and i should have built a kit myself. the kit is good but you still are going to have to fab a lot of stuff up because it is just to mount the body. i even had to modify the motor mount kit because it wasn't working the way i thought it should. if you are going to use everything from you s10 doner and don't have a lot of fab skills, but want an easy way to swap to an s10 frame. i would spend the coin on a ez swap kit.

[Dan Bowles]

62ChevyII just joined here as well. There is a wealth of info. Just start asking.

[Matt300ZXT]

So since I've never fabricated anything in my life, unless it was with Legos, does anyone on here have the tools to make a set of those mounts, in exchange for some cash of course? Assuming I can't find anyone locally to make them that is.

[Thadious]

Most of the mounts and such can be fabb'd from square tubing... Just a thought... head to one of your local metal suppliers and see if they can cut them up to your specs with an angle, then just weld the cap on and drill for the mounting holes.

Quite honestly, I doubt you'll find anything for an S10 swap a direct bolt in, so you might want to learn the welding skills.

How does that old saying go... "Give a man a fish....."

Cheers,
Ted.

[RootBeer 6117]

Matt, you might try looking on eBay I saw a set of mounts listed on there a while back, looked just like the ones Jeff's51 posted on here. I have high school kids building mine and they come up with mounts a little different than Jeff's but I let them brain storm ideas (some times it's more brain damaged ideas) If there's a will there's away.
Let me add one more thing the career center were I teach offers evening classes for welding.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=413926

[Dan Bowles]

We have a place called All Metals in Adrian, MI. I asked if they had 4" square tubing as well as 1 x 2" tubing. I ordered mine cut to the lengths I needed. I think the cross pieces I used for the bed moungs were $13 each, cut to 50" lenghts. I don't remember what the 4" was. They'd fab for me if I wanted to pay extra.

Again, you can save a ton of money by buying a welder and doing it yourself.

[BlueJeep]

I'm actually going to disagree with these guys and tell you that if you've never fabricated anything in your life, you may be better off to buy a [good] kit. This is my opinion, which I believe is what you were asking for in this thread.

I agree with the "give a man a fish, teach to fish" and that the welder is a good thing to purchase (I have 3 of them), and I'm a fabricator and I build my own mounts. And, I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from learning this.....BUT....

The reason I say this is to avoid having a project started that doesn't get finished, either from difficulty or from motivation, time commitments, or for other reasons. It's easier to get the truck assembled on the s10 frame and then work on all the other things you'll have to do to it, than to get caught up in building the mounts and then have to do all the rest. If it's financially OK for you to go with the kit, choose which one you want and then go for it. There will be plenty of other (smaller) initiatives for you to hone (or begin) your fabrication skills with.

And for your other question, I run the original 220,000 mile 4.3 that was in my s10 and it gets around fine. I surmise that it's more peppy than the 216 would have been, but nothing like a 5.3 would be. It's mounted 7" back from the original location in the s10 frame.

[Thadious]

I'm not one opposed to buying the kit either... It's usually time or money with me and I general have more of the former. So if I can save money with a little work, then I have more for the stuff I can't make.

The drawings for the mounts are all here and most S10 swappers can usually pretty much agree where the mounts go and would be more than likely willing to chime in with measurements. So if fabbing them is a concern... stop off at a local welding shop with the plans and what you want, then bring em home and bolt them to the frame, you're going to have to drill holes anyways...

The thing I have with buying kits is that you're paying for the R&D and I fully agree with that, BUT most on this board have done the same and shared the info. Save the coin, take it to a local shop, pay the boys to do it up right and bring it home, drill and bolt... done. And most likely for a $1000 less. One other thing with the kit.... your cab height is their choice... not yours, so if you want to drop it down into the weeds... it's all suspension...

Just my 2 cents... and another possibility...

Ted.

[RootBeer 6117]

Blue Jeep you bring up a very good point, I have been doing this all my life so it would be easier for a guy like me to do my own. But there is still going to be fab work no matter which way you choose to go,it will be less with the AD kit for sure.

[vintage_car]

I feel that I can chime in on this subject since I was/am in the shoes of Matt300ZXT...my previous knowledge of welding was one patch panel on an old BMW I was restoring. It was more bodywork on the BMW than rust removal or fabrication. I have a 48' truck and lurked on this forum for awhile trying to decide what direction I wanted to go... s-10 frame or buy a kit. I reviewed Thad, Jeff and BlueJeep's project builds and decided instead of spending the money on a kit, to use Jeff's cab mount design and a local metal shop to fabricate the mounts for me. Since my welding was not up to snuff yet, I looked for the standard cab long bed s-10, so I didn't have to do any chopping on the frame. I also wanted a v-8 and added that to the s-10 looking list and was successful in my hunt.

I paid the metal shop to cut the 4" square tubing, weld on the plates and then angle supports that go to my frame and took them home. It cost me around $80 in metal and fabrication work for those mounts. that is a HUGE savings over the kit, and with the money saved I bought an Eastwood 125 Mig welder. I think it was $399 shipped, came with a cart, auto dimming helmet and a couple spools of wire. Paid $100 for a welding bottle with argon/CO2 mix and began practicing. If you practice with the flux core stuff and then use MIG with the bottle you will never want to use flux again! My welds are so much nicer with the MIG.

Since then I have also bought a harbor freight chop saw so I can just buy the metal stock I need and cut it myself. It is amazing the knowledge you gain by doing a project like this. As long as you do not have a time constraint on getting it done, and space to keep it while you save up money...do as much of it yourself as you can. The reward is so much greater during the project and at completion.

If you plan on doing more automotive projects, ya gotta learn sometime, because you will have a time where there isn't a kit or mount that you need, and if you have learned a bit of basic fabrication and have a few of the tools of the trade you will quickly overcome those issues.

hopping off the soapbox.

[jeffs51chevy]

Matt300ZXT

PM sent

[1952ssr]

I will chime in also. I had no experience welding ever, my wife bought me a Lincoln weld 100. And like said above just practicing will get you going. Just learning temp, speed and a steady hand and you will be pretty goog in no time. I used scrap pieces from the s10 and never bought one piece of metal for my swap. I had some metal around the shop from my father-in-law and my '52 had mounts made for the bed using flat steel. You can also check my build here too.