originalists, good people? or radical nut jobs?

[283nova]

was just wondering your expieriences with "orignalists" i know some on here are and thats ok, i just get PO'D sometimes when someone comes up to you or tell you how it was out of the factory dont touch it or your an @#$&^%#$%^&.
i recently joined a site and told of my idea to put a sbc in the truck HOLY cow youd think i was asking to rape and pillage a cemetary.

a gmc and a chevy are identical except for engine and trim correct? at least in 66 and down?

off my soapbox i go.

[CVA59]

Originally Posted by 283nova

a gmc and a chevy are identical except for engine and trim correct? at least in 66 and down?

off my soapbox i go.

On the 62's the GMC has a different frame and front suspension.

[oem4me]

Good people or nut jobs? The answer is both, but not usually at the same time.
Truck dudes seem to be a mostly mild bunch. Even the "purists" among us are somewhat flexible, as compared to the nazi enforcers in a few other car groups that I have belonged to.
I will defend the "nut jobs" though, as they are committed to defining what is correct for a car as it was manufactured for judging purposes.
This may not be your particular cup of tea, but it serves a very valuable purpose. For instance, if I am looking to buy a car and find one I like on the opposite side of the country, but it has been judged, and rated highly by one of these nazis, I know it's a good car. I can review the judging sheets and see just where the car needs help, if any. No need to fly out and waste time or money looking at a pile of crap that some slacker or dreamer thought was the stuff.
The type of vehicle also can have an impact on whether you need to be concerned about originality. If you really want to put a 350 in a 1965 GMC , go ahead, who cares? But if you put that same engine in a 1954 120 Jaguar, I'd say you're an idiot.

[CVA59]

Originally Posted by oem4me

good people or nut jobs? The answer is both, but not usually at the same time.
Truck dudes seem to be a mostly mild bunch. Even the "purists" among us are somewhat flexible, as compared to the nazi enforcers in a few other car groups that i have belonged to.
I will defend the "nut jobs" though, as they are committed to defining what is correct for a car as it was manufactured for judging purposes.
This may not be your particular cup of tea, but it serves a very valuable purpose. For instance, if i am looking to buy a car and find one i like on the opposite side of the country, but it has been judged, and rated highly by one of these nazis, i know it's a good car. I can review the judging sheets and see just where the car needs help, if any. No need to fly out and waste time or money looking at a pile of crap that some slacker or dreamer thought was the stuff.
The type of vehicle also can have an impact on weather you need to be concerned about originality. If you really want to put a 350 in a 1965 gmc , go ahead, who cares? But if you put that same engine in a 1954 120 jaguar, i'd say you're an idiot.

x2

[lakeroadster]

Originally Posted by oem4me

? But if you put that same engine in a 1954 120 Jaguar, I'd say you're an idiot.

And here is the "idiots" Jag.... http://bringatrailer.com/2009/01/08/...k120-roadster/

I agree, a 350 in a Jaguar is just plain ridiculous.


The only real choice for the 1954 Jag is a V-12 Rolls Royce Merlin from a P-51 Mustang or Spitfire.

Pretty much anybody can restore a truck (or even easier just buy one that way)......

It takes a truly skilled craftsman to cut one up and make it the way he envisions it in his mind.

[padresag]

you more than likely went to the 60-66 gmc site didn't you?
ron

[duallyjams]

Originally Posted by padresag

you more than likely went to the 60-66 gmc site didn't you?
ron

The forum for this site is really for the GMC V6 engine no matter what type of vehicle it is in.

[lakeroadster]

Originally Posted by 283nova

was just wondering your expieriences with "orignalists" i know some on here are and thats ok, i just get PO'D sometimes when someone comes up to you or tell you how it was out of the factory dont touch it or your an @#$&^%#$%^&.
i recently joined a site and told of my idea to put a sbc in the truck HOLY cow youd think i was asking to rape and pillage a cemetary.

a gmc and a chevy are identical except for engine and trim correct? at least in 66 and down?

off my soapbox i go.

Since you asked....

I have struggled with this also... for about 35 years, from the day I put a split manifold and Cragars on my 1st car: a 1970 Nova. You just have to develop a thicker skin and understand that everybody has their preferences.

I am a Hot Rodder and have made modifications to every car I have ever owned. While building my old Model A hot rod I struck up an ''association" with the President of the Model A Club of America, who happened to live within 5 miles of my home. He knew I was a Hot Rodder and whenever I was around he acted like he was dealing with the enemy. His nature was to hoard every Model A part he could find and restore them all to "factory spec's. When I was cleaning out my barn in preparation to move from Ohio to Colorado I called him up and literally gave him all my left over stock Model A spare parts. I knew he would put them to good use, and I knew deep down he appreciated.

As I have gotten older I understand more and more where these guys are coming from. They realize that these vehicles are no longer being made and they want to preserve them and there place in time.

That being said, I am still cutting up vintage steel and Hot Rodding... it's who I am. The restoration guys can do what they want, and I can do what I want. I am not building the vehicle for them and I really don't care what they think about me.

But I do understand their point of view. I don't however think many of them understand mine.

[jimmydean]

As with the other thread like this, there is room in this world for everyone. If you (or anyone) thinks that what I choose to do with my time, money, and truck is a waste of natural resources and a good truck, then you can buy it off me when I'm done and change it back.


Or I could use my brothers line.

"If you don't like what I did to my truck, then you'd likely kill me for what I did to your daughter."

[tenni126]

It takes a huge amount of effort to get something to concours original condition. Which is hard not to respect. And obviously, some cars should be preserved, not modded (Gullwing 300SL's, most any Ferrari, and the old, one-off coach-built pre-war cars come to mind). Past that, though, I'd rather have something I don't have to worry about driving in modern traffic. Plus, having to worry about wrecking a pristine example would stress me out too much.

[jimmydean]

Also, in case anyone might not have noticed, technology has evolved. Yes, there is a lot to be said for a true original, but keep in mind freeway speeds and traffic were NOT what they are today. Power steering, power disc brakes, updated suspension parts are all good things when you take a 45 year old truck on the freeway at 60mph.

Of course my truck requires a bit of a hill and a tail wind to reach above 55, but I'm ok with that until I update it some more.

[gimmy 64]

this kind of stuff gets to me. we are not talking about a rare classic old car these are trucks. most have been through hell and back. and it would take alot more time and money to put them to stock than hot rod or what ever you want to call them. also on chevy and gmc being the same. there are quite a few differances. dash is differant, hood is,rear end 12 bolt, gmc has dana 44, most gmc's have leaf springs chevy have coils--most. gauges are differant. to name some of the differance.

[jocko]

Good thread - raises a great question and one that I have often struggled with. When I OWN one, I am a hot rodder. But when I am LOOKING for one, I prefer one that's been untouched, even if it's not in good condition, I prefer to BUY one as original as possible. Not sure why that is. But I assume I'm not alone - because originals usually are "Worth" a lot more on the market, even if they don't have nearly as much $$$ in them as some of the hot-rodded ones we see.

I've run into this problem before (i.e. MY problem) - I have owned two 65 impala SS's - both big block cars, fact a/c, the works. The first one I sold due to impending complicated move in the military - then turned around and bought the 2nd one when I got to the new location. For ONCE, that worked in my favor - I found a really nice one for a great price and commenced in mildly hopping it up. I'm personally a "stock interior and exterior" (except wheels) person, but under the hood... anything goes.

But as I progessed on this second impala (the white one) I ran into a mental block in that I started to feel pretty bad cutting anything up and get into a condition where it could not be returned to stock. The car really was pretty rare and was so original and numbers matching... ugh. For once, the hot rodder in me gave in to the historical purist - and I sold the car with the intention of getting another vehicle after I retired - one in so/so condition so I could do whatever I wanted to it and to minimize start-up cost. As you can see, that plan went out the window after the next move and I found 'ol blue, the 66 C10 you see here and that led me to this website. While I was looking specifically for a 60-66 C10, I was NOT looking for a truck in this good of condition (i.e. I almost set myself up to hit the same brick wall I hit with the Impala) - but I'm convinced that I'm not going to have any mental anguish over swapping in the tremec, relocating the tank, doing a good bit of nostalgic upgrades to the motor, painting it something other than the original lt blue, etc. (but I DO like the lt blue...) I plan to keep it forever (of course I've said that before too...)

I think part of the reason some of us struggle with these decisions (I do anyway) is because we KNOW that mods, especially irreversible ones, do reduce the value of the truck if you try to re-sell it (in most cases). Once you mod it, you essentially have to find someone that wants the exact same mods if you want to get all your money back out of it. Not always the case, but you know... Anyway, we are hot rodders at heart and we go into this with eyes wide open, knowing we're not in it JUST for the money. We simply love the cars and trucks we tinker with. That's all I can come up with anyway.

An example: The 57 Bel Air below is my first car. I added the tunnel rammed 327, cragars, muncie 4 speed - the works (as a teenager, chrome was king!!). But I paid the price, literally, when I sold it. I bought it for $2500 and it was bone stock except for having some goat seats in it. I sunk about $15K in it over 12-13 years, did not finish it (the pic below is the day it left the nest, waaaaa) - and when it was all said and done, I sold it for $3800... Lesoon learned.

So, if you KNOW you are going to re-sell the truck, it's sometimes worth not doing any/many irreversible modifications so that you can hope to get at least some of your money out of it when you sell it. On the other hand - if you bought it for dirt cheap - or you know you're never gonna sell it - then the sky is the limit. That's my philosophy anyway. I understand the purists and am glad they are out there. I am not one of them though - but I appreciate what they do. But hot rodders will always rule the world...

Now, where's my magneto, or that wacky dual-point distributor I could NEVER get tuned correctly...

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by jocko

Good thread - raises a great question and one that I have often struggled with. When I OWN one, I am a hot rodder. But when I am LOOKING for one, I prefer one that's been untouched, even if it's not in good condition, I prefer to BUY one as original as possible.

I am the exact same way and I know why, too. Because if I do it, I know how it was done and I know what it takes to do it again. But if I buy it that way, no telling what it was prior and how it got how it is now.

Besides, it's not what you bought, it's what you've built that counts.

[jbgroby]

283,

I read your post on Jolly's 6066 GMC group, yes we're crazy for the V-6, they did not mean anything too violent. We're cool, but the site IS dedicated to finding, keeping and restoring the V-6's whiich in our opinion are really a unique engine for too many reasons to list.

Nobody got too crazy, it just that we love the V-6. What you need to do is post the problems that you are having with the engine (missing casting plugs aka freeze plugs, pan, etc. ask for thier help in getting the parts and how to finx, best bunch of guys in the world, me indluded.

If you could only see what I've been through over the past 10 years bringing my truck back to 99% OEM spec. you'd given up a long time ago

Don't be offended.

Jake

[283nova]

i fully understand the whole keep it original to preserve it, but for me theres enough of those out there. time to have fun with it nowdays.

i like a fulley concourse resto 55 chevy as much as a gasser or a drag car. its all cool to me.

but i mean i dont like telling other people how to build there rig's.

also my truck does not have a 12 bolt nor a dana 44 it has some antique looking thing with a perfectly round cover. lookes like an 8 3/4 but with a back cover instead of a dropout the front.

[padresag]

you went on their site and it is there for the v6 and you piss on them by saying that you are putting in sbc. they didn't treat you that bad and I think that they explained it to you. they also said that there were other sites that would entertain your thoughts
ron

[Captainfab]

Are you sure it doesn't have a drop out third member? That would be a common rear end for a '55-'62 GM truck.

Originally Posted by 283nova

also my truck does not have a 12 bolt nor a dana 44 it has some antique looking thing with a perfectly round cover. lookes like an 8 3/4 but with a back cover instead of a dropout the front.

[283nova]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Are you sure it doesn't have a drop out third member? That would be a common rear end for a '55-'62 GM truck.

yes it does but it also has a rear cover, sure is different!

[markeb01]

I have great admiration and respect for the Jolly GMC site, but I’ve never joined because I’m a hot rodder and the site is dedicated to restoration. I respect what they do and have benefitted from the wealth of information they have collected and make available to anyone with interest. I’ve also recommended their site as a resource to other GMC owners on many occasions. When I first started building my truck I sent my cherry original GMC fender emblems to the site owner since I knew they were rare and he would appreciate and make good use of them.

I think it’s important to understand the direction and charter of any organized club, religion, or web forum before joining. Make sure the focus and rules are in alignment with your interests. I’d chalk it up as a learning experience. The reaction you received is probably similar to what one might expect if you went to a kindergarten class and used language more appropriate for a bar or wrecking yard. It’s something they are not use to hearing, and probably won’t be appreciated.

[283nova]

Originally Posted by markeb01

I have great admiration and respect for the Jolly GMC site, but I’ve never joined because I’m a hot rodder and the site is dedicated to restoration. I respect what they do and have benefitted from the wealth of information they have collected and make available to anyone with interest. I’ve also recommended their site as a resource to other GMC owners on many occasions. When I first started building my truck I sent my cherry original GMC fender emblems to the site owner since I knew they were rare and he would appreciate and make good use of them.

I think it’s important to understand the direction and charter of any organized club, religion, or web forum before joining. Make sure the focus and rules are in alignment with your interests. I’d chalk it up as a learning experience. The reaction you received is probably similar to what one might expect if you went to a kindergarten class and used language more appropriate for a bar or wrecking yard. It’s something they are not use to hearing, and probably won’t be appreciated.

oh that doesnt really bother me, i just dont like people telling other people how to build the cars/trucks. i hear it all the time with my nova and thats bad enough,

[lakeroadster]

Originally Posted by 283nova

.....I just dont like people telling other people how to build the cars/trucks. i hear it all the time with my nova and thats bad enough,

As for the GMC V-6, if we can all be honest, it's a boat anchor compared to what is available as power plants today. But some guys love it simply because it was unique to GMC's and the guys at the 6066 site worship the V-6. And more power to them for loving it (or less power as the case may be here).

If you are catching flak about swapping it, call their bluff and put it up for sale over @ Jolly's 6066 GMC group. Then you can see how much money these guys that love the V-6 really give you for it. Kind of calling them out to put their money where their mouth is. I am betting it's not worth much more than scrap iron price. One good thing though, those big block v-6's are really heavy!

As a hot rodder I never understood pouring a ton of time and money into a power plant that is inferior to a more modern, more powerful and lighter engine that can be built for less money. But then again, that is really the topic being discussed; originalists.

Bottom line, do what you want, it's your truck. Everybodies got an opinion and they are entitled to it. Doesn't mean their opinion should mean anything to you.

[special-K]

Originalists? Never heard that one. I guess I'm both originalist and modifyist.

We all have our views. But the way I see it,if I found a great example of an all original truck that made it all these years it would be hard to be the one to change it. You don't see anyone paying good money for a hot rodded truck to put back to original. If I did do anything to change one I would do it in such a way I could change it back. Trucks that appear stock except for stance,wheels,and how they run are cool enough for me. I've always appreciated bone stockers but always lacked the discipline to hold back my hot rod instincts. As these trucks and me get older it seems to be more appealing. I'd love to have at least one of each. For me,I'd want a traditional work horse for my all original,like a 1t Stepside,1/2-3/4t long Stepside,or K/20. If I wanted to go all out on a hot rod truck I'd look for one that would take a lot to put back to original. I always defended myself (as if that was necessary) by pointing out that you could look at it like at least I kept one from the junkyard.

I agree you have to mind what company you are in when expressing your desires to modify. You don't go to a site dedicated to preservation and start talking about altering a vehicle. Common sense will tell you that. The same goes for anything. You don't go to a fundamental Christian church and start talking evolution.

[62ShortStep]

"Nut jobs"?
I once heard a psychologist explain that 'normal' was defined as "doing what everyone else was doing".
With that explanation, everyone on this site is a nut job.
I love it.

[allengator]

If it makes you feel any better TRUCK "orginalist" (aka snobs) are really mild compared to others (as stated before...)

On a scale of 1-10:
Truck snobs are a 4
Chevelle snobs are a 6
Tri-five snobs are a 7.5
Corvette snobs are a 32 !!!!!