Welding Patch Panels

[andsonsvd]

Sorry for all of the questions, I really appreciate all of the help everyone gives me.

I have a question in regards to rust repair panels.

I have three I need to do, the Outer Cowl, Inner Cowl and rear Lower Cab Section. I was just wanting to get your opinion on installing these myself?

I can weld ok, but not expert. Im concerned in damaging the body, Or should I just pay someone to install these patch panels?

Does someone have a good website with a good walk through??

Thanks Shane

[OrrieG]

Before I started my truck I had never done any body welding except for spot welding in minor stuff. When I found it was going to cost about $250 per panel to get them fitted, welded and rough ground I decided to try myself. Worst case was I was out the cost of the panel and time. I also got a bad fender and started practicing, cutting out pieces and welding them back in. Also drilled a lot of holes of different sizes and filled them.

On your cab the most important part is going to be making sure the cab is still square and doors are close before your start. Then weld in diagonal cross bracing to keep the bottom of the front jambs where they need to be.

Look thru the build threads here, there are a number of guys that have done what you are doing with detailed information. Once you get the hang of it, then all kinds of ideas start coming since you aren't limited to just what you can bolt or screw on. Good luck!

[Kabwe]

The only way you learn is to try. If you have a welder I say go for it. Practice on some scrap metal and get you technique down.

I butt weld everything whenever possible. Because it allows you to do a better job on the metal finish and use less filler. I only lap weld where the factory lap welded joints.

Panel fitment is important so get that panel to fit the best you can. When butt welding try to have a nice gap, if the metal is slightly touching that's fine. Your gaps should not be wider than the welding wire. Shaped your patch to perfection before you start welding.

You don't run a bead on sheetmetal you tack weld and move around a lot to keep the metal cool. What I do is tack the piece in and grind those welds, tack some more, grind, and tack until the patch is completely welded in. This allows the metal to cool and I'm also continuously working.

If you have access to the back grind your welds on both sides and use you hammer on dolly to stretch the metal back to its original shape (welding causes shrinkage, sometimes very little but always) as you are welding it in.

Oh yeah when you hammer on dolly to stretch the metal, hammer only the HAZ (heat affected zone). The haz is the area where the metal changed colors from the heat.

Just remember to go slow and try to keep that metal cool, cool is your friend.
I hope this helps.

[andsonsvd]

Thanks Orrieg and Kawbe.

Kawbe do I hammer and dolly the ground weld? I am using a Mig welder and I read Somewhere that you shouldn't hammer a mig weld only tig? I am going to use purchased patch panels as I have no experience in making panels.

This truck i'm working on isn't going to be a show car, it is just a driver so I thought it would be a good time to have a go, rather than working on my Street rod. I will get some scrap and have a go, thanks for your responses once again

Shane

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by andsonsvd

Thanks Orrieg and Kawbe.

Kawbe do I hammer and dolly the ground weld? I am using a Mig welder and I read Somewhere that you shouldn't hammer a mig weld only tig? I am going to use purchased patch panels as I have no experience in making panels.


Shane

Yes you can hammer and dolly on grounded down mig welds, its just that mig welds can crack from excessive hammering. Mig welds are a more brittle weld.

This hood has been sectioned and the fender eye has been repaired. Both were done with a mig. I hammer and dolly the heck out of them.



Tig welds will not crack and you can hammer to your hearts desire.

By the way just because its not a show car does not mean that you should not do the best repair you can. Doing our best is how we improve our skills, with each repair you will get better and better if you reach for the stars.lol

[Chevette]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

Yes you can hammer and dolly on grounded down mig welds, its just that mig welds can crack from excessive hammering. Mig welds are a more brittle weld.

This hood has been sectioned and the fender eye has been repaired. Both were done with a mig. I hammer and dolly the heck out of them.



Tig welds will not crack and you can hammer to your hearts desire.

By the way just because its not a show car does not mean that you should not do the best repair you can. Doing our best is how we improve our skills, with each repair you will get better and better if you reach for the stars.lol

If I may add my expertise. Do not hammer and dolly before 10:00 a.m. on a Sunday. It pisses the neighbors off, big time.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

...I also got a bad fender and started practicing, cutting out pieces and welding them back in. Also drilled a lot of holes of different sizes and filled them....

This is exactly what I'm doing because I don't know how to weld either. I bought a used little Hobart 140 and RudeDude and I swapped some parts and I ended up with a door I can use.

What Kabwe is describing is what I'm doing.

[BrianDamage]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

Before I started my truck I had never done any body welding except for spot welding in minor stuff. When I found it was going to cost about $250 per panel to get them fitted, welded and rough ground I decided to try myself. Worst case was I was out the cost of the panel and time. I also got a bad fender and started practicing, cutting out pieces and welding them back in. Also drilled a lot of holes of different sizes and filled them.

On your cab the most important part is going to be making sure the cab is still square and doors are close before your start. Then weld in diagonal cross bracing to keep the bottom of the front jambs where they need to be.

Look thru the build threads here, there are a number of guys that have done what you are doing with detailed information. Once you get the hang of it, then all kinds of ideas start coming since you aren't limited to just what you can bolt or screw on. Good luck!

What do you recommend making the braces out of?
Posted via Mobile Device

[rgunlock]

Do you guys paint the backside of your patches to keep rust from starting, particularly if you won't be able to reach them from behind after they are installed? What do you use that doesn't burn when you weld the patch in?

[Kabwe]

Oh you must know my neighbors because they are pissed at me all the time.lol

[8baller]

this is my first time ever doing any patch panels..i had the same concerns you have..i wish i had pics of them while i was in the middle of this..but i bought some butweld clamps from HF and between those and using what my dad woodshop teacher and anyone else ever taught me about cutting lumber...measure measure measure ..etc etc and cut once...that got me through it... probably not the best patch job in the world..but it is straight ...
jump into it..

[el_bole]

Originally Posted by 8baller

this is my first time ever doing any patch panels..i had the same concerns you have..i wish i had pics of them while i was in the middle of this..but i bought some butweld clamps from HF and between those and using what my dad woodshop teacher and anyone else ever taught me about cutting lumber...measure measure measure ..etc etc and cut once...that got me through it... probably not the best patch job in the world..but it is straight ...
jump into it..

8baller,

It looks good to me man!!!! I hope my first time welding is half as good as that!!

el_bole

[jimig1]

My neighbors don't like me either it don't think it helps when my dad was a teenager he used to drag race and ran open headers and would tune his car in the driveway next to there house

[Kabwe]

Also cut only the bad metal off your truck, do all you cutting on the patch panel. It is not necessary to use the complete patch panel. That way if you make a mistake you can always get another patch panels its harder to repair if you cut too much off your truck.

[andsonsvd]

Thanks everyone.

reading this makes me feel like going out to the shed and cutting into the panels now, the only thing is that the patch panels take for ever to get to Australia!!!

Thanks again everyone, i'm sure ill have more questions soon!!

Shane

[1959 Apache 3600]

Terrific thread. Great advice and suggestions for us newbie types!
Thank you!

[el_bole]

This is exactly what I have been searching for! I've hired a welder here locally and man is it expensive.....I want to do a shortening of my longbed fleetside but I am scurred to even ask what he'll charge me to do it. SO I am gonna bite the bullet and get myself a mig welder to weld, tack initially, the side panels of the bed.......after cutting them down of course...

What MIG Welder do you recommend for this task(size/Amperage)? Below is a link of what I will be doing.....

http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/cl...uck/index.html

Any info/tips would be greatly appreciated....by way an AFFORDABLE Mig (i know of miller/Lincoln etc.)

Thanks,
el_bole

[jimig1]

Originally Posted by el_bole

This is exactly what I have been searching for! I've hired a welder here locally and man is it expensive.....I want to do a shortening of my longbed fleetside but I am scurred to even ask what he'll charge me to do it. SO I am gonna bite the bullet and get myself a mig welder to weld, tack initially, the side panels of the bed.......after cutting them down of course...

What MIG Welder do you recommend for this task(size/Amperage)? Below is a link of what I will be doing.....

http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/cl...uck/index.html

Any info/tips would be greatly appreciated....by way an AFFORDABLE Mig (i know of miller/Lincoln etc.)

Thanks,
el_bole

If you are going to be welding the frame you will want a welder that has 220v. I have an Eastwood MIG 175 and it is great I have used millers and some others and I'd say that for the price of it is hard to beat. I'd say even if you are not welding the frame go for the 220v then you will not kick your self for not buying it down the road I'm doing that with my air compressor.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by jimig1

I'd say even if you are not welding the frame go for the 220v then you will not kick your self for not buying it down the road I'm doing that with my air compressor.

I agree 100%. I don't know how many times some one bought a 110 welder to do patch panels only to find that they have gotten pretty good and now want to do thicker stuff and end up buying another welder. I'm guilty of that myself.lol I have a hobart 180 mig that I got from toolking as a factory recondition for 500 bucks about 6 years ago. Its my work horse.

On that air compressor get a 2 stage and you will never regret it. Stay away from oil-less compressors they are very loud and don't last as long. A nice compressor can out live you if you take care of it.lol

[el_bole]

Guys thanks for the info....So 220V is the way to go huh? Good thing is I dont have to shorten the frame just the Bed side panels....just cut and paste yeah i hope its that easy......

Okay gents I hope all is well and again many thanks.

el_bole

[jimig1]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

I agree 100%. I don't know how many times some one bought a 110 welder to do patch panels only to find that they have gotten pretty good and now want to do thicker stuff and end up buying another welder. I'm guilty of that myself.lol I have a hobart 180 mig that I got from toolking as a factory recondition for 500 bucks about 6 years ago. Its my work horse.

On that air compressor get a 2 stage and you will never regret it. Stay away from oil-less compressors they are very loud and don't last as long. A nice compressor can out live you if you take care of it.lol

I did the same thing with the welder. I wish I had spent the $200 more to get the 2 stage compressor

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

... I don't know how many times some one bought a 110 welder to do patch panels only to find that they have gotten pretty good and now want to do thicker stuff and end up buying another welder.

Yup, this JUST happened to me; well kinda.

Just Monday I had to rent a 180amp stick welder to do some strucutral work in my garage (BIG frame in rear wall cause I took down 14 ft of the 18 ft wall)that my Hobart Handler 140 wasn't hot enough to do.

And apparently, the same thing is going to happen to me on my compressor because when my 30 gallon oilless finally died I bought a used 60 gallon Harbor Freight unit off Craigslist at a VERY good price (I don't have 220v in the garage YET, so I haven't used it).

Save long = ending up with a lifetime tool.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by GMtrucknut!!

I use my lincoln weldpak 120 for light sheetemtal and use the 180 for all other.I like the lower amperage of the weldpak. Compressor rule for me has always been a big one will do a small job but rarely will a little one do a big job!

I use my 180 for thin and thick stuff its my bread and butter, but I own a tig now and man you can't beat it for body work. No its not needed, but once you start tig welding sheetmetal you will never go back.

All that said I can't live without my mig. Its just a great versatile machine.

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Yup, this JUST happened to me; well kinda.

Just Monday I had to rent a 180amp stick welder to do some strucutral work in my garage (BIG frame in rear wall cause I took down 14 ft of the 18 ft wall)that my Hobart Handler 140 wasn't hot enough to do.

And apparently, the same thing is going to happen to me on my compressor because when my 30 gallon oilless finally died I bought a used 60 gallon Harbor Freight unit off Craigslist at a VERY good price (I don't have 220v in the garage YET, so I haven't used it).

Save long = ending up with a lifetime tool.

Get that 220 in the garage you will never regret it. I did mine myself I put a 60amp sub panel in the garage and have my compressor wired straight to the sub panel and use the circuit breaker as my on/off switch. I added a 220 outlet for the welders.

[GMtrucknut!!]

I use my lincoln weldpak 120 for light sheetemtal and use the 180 for all other.I like the lower amperage of the weldpak. Compressor rule for me has always been a big one will do a small job but rarely will a little one do a big job!

[jimig1]

you can use a weld thru primer but some of it is going to burn off there is not much you can do. I have used this http://www.eastwood.com/internal-fra...ay-nozzle.html in a few places that I could not get in to paint