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12-09-2013, 01:52 PM | #1 |
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LSx Lessons Learned.
I thought I would write this so others that are performing an LSx swap will have some important info that will help them on their conversion. These are my observations and may not be true of every swap out there. Please feel free to add any info that you find valuable from your own personal swap adventure.
MODS: If you want you can make this a sticky that others can add to if you feel it will be a valuable addition to the board. Some of this applies to everything, but some is engine/trans specific. For ease of installation get the engine,trans,ECM,and pedal out of the at the very least the same year vehicles. The same vehicle is best. 6.2/6l80e Somewhere in 2010 the e38 ECM operating system changed (OS). Make sure your ECM matches the trans computer (TCM) year for sure or the two will not communicate correctly. The TCM can be exchanged between trans, but the valve body operations changed between years so they will have to be switched also. Much easier to just change ECM to match TCM. Trying to overwrite a different OS onto a different year ECM will result in failures. Sometimes instant, sometimes glitches that cannot be resolved. Do Not do this! Just get the right year ECM. The 6l80e needs the TCC wire GROUND when brake pedal not depressed, 12 volts when brake pressed. You can tap into the brake wire on the brake switch to accomplish this easily if you have regular brake light bulbs. If you are using LEDs then you need to set up a relay and use a 1k ohm 1/2 watt resistor to pull down when pedal not depressed. As I have learned, YOU MUST HAVE A GROUND WHEN PEDAL NOT DEPRESSED. An open circuit will not engage the TCC. Early 6l80e trans received the TCC signal directly from the brake switch and from the ECM over the CANBUS system. Later 6l80e trans receive the TCC signal by ECM via CANBUS only. Verify the function of the Body Control Module (BCM) in your donor vehicle. You may or may not need this depending on what functions you want to retain. There is some debate about this, but there may need to be a 120 ohm terminating resistor put after the trans, and before the Data Link Connector (DLC). The CANBUS system needs to see this so there won't be any communication errors. The BCM from your donor vehicle usually has this in line between the trans and DLC. If you measure the voltage on either the high or low wire and it is 5 volts then you need the resistor. The voltage should be about 2.5 volts. Just put a resistor between the high and low wires. After market harness are great, but not necessary. Modifying the stock harness is very doable and not that difficult. If you want the ECM mounted somewhere special then you may want an after market harness. LS3 and L92 engines are not quite the same. The engine harness and sensors are not identical. Make sure you have the correct harness for your ENGINE. A subscription to ALLDATADIY is a must! Spend the couple of bucks, it will help you find any issues you may encounter. Buy a decent scantool to help you diagnose problems. As a member found out, tuning with open headers will give you many errors and have you chasing ghosts. Get the exhaust done before fully tuning. Hire a reputable/reliable tuner. Nothing beats a dyno tune. Mail order tunes are great for startup. If you have the time to learn it buy HP Tuners and tune/ learn yourself. Be wary of Craigslist tuners. Most of them bought HP Tuners and know a just enough to be dangerous. Or can only tune stock vehicles. Any kind of conversion/hybrid will baffle them. They are trying to recoup their cost and learn on your vehicle. Decide if your ok with that. VATS MUST BE TURNED OFF TO START THE ENGINE! If you have double checked everything and it all checks out, have your tuner verify they removed VATS. not that he remembers disabling it, but have him verify. VATS can be disabled, but if the tuner doesn't REWRITE ALL then it may not take. You will chase ghosts forever and never get the engine to fire. The engine may start up and run for a few seconds, or it may not start up at all. Custom fuel tanks are very nice and convenient, but not the only option for fuel tanks. In tank fuel pumps are best. There are many options. At this time there are no DLC splitters that will let you hook up multiple scantools/gauges. One will overrule the other so you will only have one tool work at a time. CANBUS gauges are great and convenient. However the verdict is still out as to whether or not they effect the ECM. They are not supposed to, but there are GM Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) that claim add on devices are causing issues (scantools, insurance devices to monitor driving, etc). Be very careful with switching throttle bodies and intakes. Some throttle bodies have different values during acceleration and the ECM tables won't match. This will cause major issues. Also the intakes will also change airflow, so be warned.
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1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE Last edited by jorgensensc; 12-09-2013 at 02:01 PM. |
12-09-2013, 01:59 PM | #2 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
WELL SAID sir. sounds like you have some experience right there. when i sell a engine and trans out of a wrecked truck i sell my customers the engine,trans,ecm,engine harness and mass air flow sensor and electric gas pedel out of the same vehicle. every thing is matched that way. and it does help alot with the 6L80-6L90E transmissons.
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12-09-2013, 02:03 PM | #3 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Ha! I have some experience with headaches and chasing my tail! That is for sure!
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1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE |
12-09-2013, 04:34 PM | #4 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
My biggest lesson learned: Trying to move the mounts back to the six cylinder position on a '67-'72 truck to keep the stock truck A/C location is more trouble than it's worth. You run into all sorts of exhaust clearance issues.
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Matt Cramer 1972 Chevy C10 - 4.8 swap, long bed, and maybe one dent free body panel somewhere - SOLD 4.8 LS build thread |
12-17-2013, 12:23 AM | #5 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Really? I had really good luck going this route. I used 3" forward motor mount plates, and moved the v8 stands back to the 6 cyl. location (2.5"). Everything bolted up nice, then used shorty headers for 2nd gen F-body LS swap...and factory a/c compressor fits like a glove, even though I don't have a/c yet
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Zach 1970 Chevrolet Custom Camper K20 1971 GMC Super K2500, 12V/NV4500 swap in progress 1971 Chevrolet Custom C10 1972 Chevrolet Custom Deluxe C20, 5.3/4L60E 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, 455/TH400, 3.73 posi 2004 GMC Sierra 2500HD, LB7/Allison, CCSB 2005 GMC Sierra 1500, 5.3/4L60E, CCSB |
12-17-2013, 09:26 AM | #6 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
The truck manifolds wouldn't fit at all, so I got a set of 5th generation Camaro manifolds. The problem wasn't quite as bad, but still a problem. So I ended up cutting several parts out of the engine stands, flipping them side to side and upside down, and welding them back together. If there's a set of cast manifolds that will clear this combo, I'm not aware of it. Interesting to hear that the F-body swap headers work well here.
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Matt Cramer 1972 Chevy C10 - 4.8 swap, long bed, and maybe one dent free body panel somewhere - SOLD 4.8 LS build thread |
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12-17-2013, 01:44 PM | #7 | |
meowMEOWmeowMEOW
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
Thats why we love the TBSS manifolds or DT swap headers.
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12-17-2013, 03:55 PM | #8 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
From what I've seen, the TBSS manifolds don't clear the particular combo I have either. The DT headers would have worked too, but I was being cheap.
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Matt Cramer 1972 Chevy C10 - 4.8 swap, long bed, and maybe one dent free body panel somewhere - SOLD 4.8 LS build thread |
12-11-2013, 02:53 PM | #9 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Sub'd so I can add a bit to this later
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Will 1968 C10 - Project Texa Go 6.0/4L80e 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 2002 Ford Excursion 7.3L 2024 Toyota Sienna |
12-12-2013, 12:23 PM | #10 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Man...I don't even know where to begin on this one......
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 |
12-12-2013, 01:25 PM | #11 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
me neither
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Kurt - '68 GMC short step - NIB '09 LY6 6.0L crate motor w/mods, NIB '12 crate 4L85e w/billet 3k stall Circle D, 3.73 posi 12 bolt, DynaTech f-swap headers, 3/4 drop, handling mods, etc. - my toy '72 Chevy LWB C-10 Highlander - 350/350 ps/pb/tilt/ac - not original but close '06 Chevy TrailBlazerSS - LS2/4L70e - little black hot rod SUV - my DD '18 Kia Sorento - wife's econo-driver '95 Chevy S10 - reg cab shortbed, LS, 4.3, auto... my '68's powertrain and chassis build -links broken A surprise phase - carb to efi -links broken |
12-12-2013, 05:42 PM | #12 |
meowMEOWmeowMEOW
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Lesson #6
Your are 90% drunker in the garage environment than a bar. 6 beers in a bar is a good buzz, and maybe some over-sharing.... 6 beers in the garage, usually results in 2-3 extra hours of work the next day, fixing all those "good ideas" you had the night before.
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'66 Short Step / SD Tuned / Big Cam LQ4 / Backhalfed /Built 4l80e / #REBUILDEVERYTHING MY BUILD THE H8RDCPTR //\\ MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL REV J HD
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12-13-2013, 03:08 AM | #13 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
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Custom Painter/Restoration Specialist 1965 GMC 3/4 Ton LB SOLD? 1964 Chevy El Camino in full restoration 1991 Chevy S10 288K+ miles 2nd Owner SOLD 2020 RAM 1500 Warlock |
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12-19-2013, 10:19 PM | #14 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
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69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears.... |
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12-12-2013, 08:14 PM | #15 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
great info! gathering parts now for the swap. 6.2 from 2009 denali 6L90 from 2011 express van.
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12-17-2013, 03:48 PM | #16 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
(I know I'm being a little dramatic, but I feel very strongly about this. The swap is much easier and will work better with matching equipment. I'm still trying to sort my stuff out.) Shawn
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1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE |
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12-18-2013, 09:39 AM | #17 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
Words of wisdom!!! Most of the retrofit problems that I have found in my research had to do with mismatched ECM/TCM pairs.....
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 |
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12-17-2013, 12:55 PM | #18 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Replace the water pump while the engine is out! It isnt expensive and nothing sucks more than finishing the swap only to have to pull that right back off and drain all the new fluid...
Don't use the stock rad. Pro performance sells an aluminum one for around $200 that is MUCH better than the OE style. Buy a 5.3 style CAI. Filter on maf on TB plays hell with the sensors. AN fittings are expensive. Nothing you can do about it, just be prepared. Get your swap trans checked out before you install and test. You don't want to fire it up and then not be able to drive it. And THEN have to drop the tranny that you just put in. I have more to add later unfortunately haha
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Will 1968 C10 - Project Texa Go 6.0/4L80e 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 2002 Ford Excursion 7.3L 2024 Toyota Sienna |
12-17-2013, 03:05 PM | #19 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 12-17-2013 at 04:03 PM. |
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12-17-2013, 10:38 PM | #20 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
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Zach 1970 Chevrolet Custom Camper K20 1971 GMC Super K2500, 12V/NV4500 swap in progress 1971 Chevrolet Custom C10 1972 Chevrolet Custom Deluxe C20, 5.3/4L60E 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, 455/TH400, 3.73 posi 2004 GMC Sierra 2500HD, LB7/Allison, CCSB 2005 GMC Sierra 1500, 5.3/4L60E, CCSB |
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12-18-2013, 03:37 AM | #21 | |
meowMEOWmeowMEOW
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
The maf should be 8-14" away from the tb, mounted between the 10 and 2 oclock positions on the pipe, with no pinching of its electrical leads, no immediate obstructions like a nitrous nozzle or external IAT, and not mounted directly after a sharp bend in the path.
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'66 Short Step / SD Tuned / Big Cam LQ4 / Backhalfed /Built 4l80e / #REBUILDEVERYTHING MY BUILD THE H8RDCPTR //\\ MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL REV J HD
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12-18-2013, 09:37 AM | #22 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 |
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12-20-2013, 08:53 AM | #23 | |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Quote:
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12-17-2013, 02:15 PM | #24 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
^ yup. DTs were $$$$ but definitely worth it IMO. No problem at all to drop in.
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Will 1968 C10 - Project Texa Go 6.0/4L80e 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 2002 Ford Excursion 7.3L 2024 Toyota Sienna |
12-17-2013, 10:49 PM | #25 |
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Re: LSx Lessons Learned.
Bookmarked and now subscribed!
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Ryan 1967 Red Stepside..."Laymond" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...40#post6441840 1972 Medium Olive SWB-Chester http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=759628 1967/71 Blue SWB C10..SOLD 1977 SWB K10..my grandpa's.....never should have sold |
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