1963 1 ton brake questions

[bnokle]

I know I can swap the steering box, booster and master cyl. off a newer truck to this one but being a 1 ton I want to know if I can just get a 70's rolling chassis and swap spindle/rotor/caliper, etc...??? I like the idea of swapping in the whole front crossmember but don't want to pull the motor etc... right now anyway. It's a weird truck. I think it's a 230 with a swapped in 3spd. auto. I see lot's on swapping the 1/2 ton and 3/4 but some of the info. isn't going to help with the bigger stuff. Just wondering if I could do this and swap too the newer balljoints or whatever if it's a doable project.

[tincan1966]

It depends on which type of lower control arms you have originally.
If they have a flat shaft that bolts directly to the cross member, then you will need to switch the crossmember. If they are round and held on by u bolts, yes you can upgrade just the control arms, but you'll want to drill out the holes and use the larger,newer u bolts.

[bnokle]

I didn't even want to go that far. I was hoping I would just have to swap in the newer (76'ish) balljoints and then the newer spindle and other hardware would just bolt up. This also has a booster on it. Did these even come with those or has someone swapped that on?

[tincan1966]

It's not really that hard to do. I do not think the lower control arm on the '63 will take the later ball joint. You might also have to change your tie rods, as well, as the disc brake spindle may use larger ones.
I swaped out a '69 c30 to '76 disc brakes, but I used everything except the crossmember, so I had all the newer steering and just bolted it on.
I still have that complete new FE with only about 1000 miles on it- truck got totaled.

[Captainfab]

I have not been able to verify whether or not the '73+ C20 or C30 lower balljoints will press into the '63-'66 C20 or C30 lower control arms. I don't have a LCA off of a truck and do not want to buy a '63-'66 C20 balljoint just to measure. So at this point it looks like to be able to upgrade to disc brakes, a crossmember swap is necessary.

[bnokle]

If thats the case I might just stick with the drums for the time being. But I could also take a caliper with me to a parts store and see if they have one of each and measure them. Do you think the top balljoint would work or swap from a newer one. If the lower is the only issue I'll see what I can find. Out by the farm is oil country so there's alway's wrecks and abandoned project trucks everwhere.

[Captainfab]

I can't say for certain, but I'm thinking that the '73+ C20/30 upper balljoint should fit the '63-'66 upper control arm. The main issue Is whether or not the '73+ C20/30 lower ball joint will press into the '63-'66 lower control arm. I have not found a '63-'66 C20/30 lower balljoint in stock in the parts stores here to measure, and I just don't have the time to tear apart my '66 C20 just to measure the lower ball joint or control arm.

[tincan1966]

Did a little digging and this is what I found:

The upper ball joints for a '73-76 C 30 (this was the only years I checked) will fit into the '63-66 upper control arms. You CANNOT use the '63-66 upper ball joints for the '73-76 spindles- the stud diameter and taper are different.
Use Moog part number K6122

Lower: you will need to change control arms because the original ball joint diameter is 2.291" and the '73-76 is 2.301"
Use Moog part number K6129

Tie rods- by design, they will not interchange. Again the taper and stud diameter is way different. You cannot just change the outers since the '63-66 is only 3.44" long and the '73-76 is over 6" in overall length.
You would need to switch over to the complete '73-76 steering linkage using Moog # ES409 out tie rods.

You will need the newer wheels, as well-since the lug nuts are larger diameter and center hole is larger.

So basically, you are going to want a complete FE from a donor. That is how I did my '69 when I converted to power discs on it. I bought all new control arms with all new hardware.

If you get all the parts together, this swap can be done in a day, since it's all bolt on.

One other note- when you get to about '74-76 there are two types of C30 brakes there is a JB 8 series that has large caliper pistons and thicker rotors(which is what I have)

If you want I can put together a complete parts list for you of what I used.

Hope this info helps.

[bnokle]

Sure I'll take a list of parts. I'm going to try to get a whole wreck though. Hopefully somewhere in the mid seventies. This truck already had newer wheels on it. I don't have it here yet but it looks like regular old 16" rims too me. It should have the same ones a 61' has on it I think. My dad has one of those and I think they are something like a 18"? I did notice I could buy new loaded lower arm's on ebay cheap so maybe that will be an option too. I'll know better when I go get it. Here's a pic...

[Tx Firefighter]

Originally Posted by tincan1966

?........

Lower: you will need to change control arms because the original ball joint diameter is 2.291" and the '73-76 is 2.301"

........

The way I'm reading that, the difference in hole size is only 10 thousandths. I wouldn't change control arms for that. Thirty seconds with a sanding drum in a die grinder would open that 10 thousandths of an inch up without any trouble.

Just stick it up in there and run it around the bore two or three times.

[bnokle]

Ya know you make me want to move to texas as soon as I saw "land of milfs and honey"! And your right that might just work too. I have 3 die grinders so no loss in trying...

[tincan1966]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

The way I'm reading that, the difference in hole size is only 10 thousandths. I wouldn't change control arms for that. Thirty seconds with a sanding drum in a die grinder would open that 10 thousandths of an inch up without any trouble.

Just stick it up in there and run it around the bore two or three times.

You are right, I didn't do the math correctly in my head! LOL. Close enough to try.

[Captainfab]

I thought about suggesting opening up the holes also, but if it isn't very close to the correct size the lower balljoint could come loose. If you decide to give this a try, measure it as you go, so you don't end up with a hole that is too big.

[tincan1966]

Your original drum brake lug nut studs will only be 7/16" or 1/2" diameter.
The newer dually hubs have 9/16" studs, and center hole is slightly larger.

BTW cool truck! I'd like to have a true '60-66 C 30

[bnokle]

Maybe these wheels are off a ford or something? They do look the part unless gm switched in this year. Another thing I thought of was, do I have to get a different set of rear wheel cylinders when doing this swap? I know on some like chrysler cars I've had to change them out but on gm stuff I haven't yet. Just want to ask and make sure. To bad my dad went and crushed all my 70's parts trucks from high school. Must be a dad thing as I've heard this before???

[bnokle]

And since I'm here I thought of one more. Are 3/4 and 1 ton spindles the same? I can get my hands on way more of the c20 ones and maybe a few free ones if my dad didn't crush his old truck too.

[bnokle]

And if c20 spindles were the same I could just use the caliper too and buy new rotors. They use the same balljoint too so thats what got me thinking.

[66Submarine]

Neat truck. BTW, the engine is actually a 292.

[Tx Firefighter]

Originally Posted by 66Submarine

Neat truck. BTW, the engine is actually a 292.

Indeed it is.

You can tell by the bypass hose near the thermostat housing that the 230/250 doesn't have.

[bnokle]

I was just assuming it was a 230 cause I think thats all you could get in a 6 that year. Besides getting crazy with a turbo, My thoughts were too do a simple hei off ebay and carb rebuild tuneup. Or, I've got a bunch of astro vans in the back. I rob all the tbi stuff off them and get a 4bbl intake and distributor off ebay. There's one guy with custom tbi distributors for these motors on there and then get a tank and pump for an 87-91 tbi 1 ton and strap it to the side! I think that way would end with a $1000 bill though so might pass. But it is a 292? That sort of changes everything.

[66Submarine]

The 230 was standard, and the 292 was an option. I'd probably go the easy carb/HEI route, but that's just me.

[bnokle]

I am probably going that way just cause there will be a bunch of other crap to tend too. I'm thinking the whole frontend. He did say he won't let his wife drive it so, steering and maybe the brakes at least. I did findout the 3/4 spindles aren't the same as a 1 ton so my brake swap/search continues. Theres a guy here that will sell me the front of an 82 for $250. But really I'll buy everything new other than spindles and a few other things so I might hold out for the free junker that nobody wants. IE. free Or the whole truck for $250.