Roll Cage.

[Rannos]

I have been looking for a cage for my truck. It is a 64 C10 SWB. I would like to find a pre fabed setup I can install myself but I haven't had any luck finding one. Do any of you know of a company that makes them.for older trucks?

[Marv D]

I used ChassisWorks cage for my 66. Fits like a glove.

[Gary V]

Here's a link to a good shop... Autoweld They also have all of the other stuff your going to need.

[Rannos]

Thanks fellas. I'll look into both. I want to do the cage after I get the rearend done in a few weeks.

[scatesracing]

I think im going to order one from S&W racecars

http://www.swracecars.com/store/CHEV...4=11-1590.aspx

[tinydb84]

Originally Posted by scatesracing

I think im going to order one from S&W racecars

http://www.swracecars.com/store/CHEV...4=11-1590.aspx

I have heard good things about their fit and quality.

[BR3W CITY]

More than likely I'll be doing 2 cages this year. The Fbody is starting with a bent/notched "kit" frame, which is a godsend since most of us don't have a bender or want to spend 4 hours notching tubing with a belt sander.

My '66 is a different story because I can't actually fit the rollbar IN the cab due to the seat position and my height. We're in some gray area in terms of that one, and despite LOTS of really good links and referalls, we still haven't gotten a solid answer on the legality of putting the main hoop outside the cab in a vehicle that only has the rollbar requirement (not an 8point).

[djracer]

S&W usually runs sales this time of year.

[hotrod 80]

I put a S and W mild steel in my first truck . Quite a bit of difference between that and a custom fabbed chromemoly cage .

[Wasted Income]

I was never able to find a decent cage for my K/5 that wasn't aimed at the off-road crowd...in both looks and construction.

Gonna end up building my own. Luckily, my brother just dropped the grand on a JD2 bender, and their Beast notcher, and the SWAG hydraulic kit for it ....so I don't have to.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

I was never able to find a decent cage for my K/5 that wasn't aimed at the off-road crowd...in both looks and construction.

Gonna end up building my own. Luckily, my brother just dropped the grand on a JD2 bender, and their Beast notcher, and the SWAG hydraulic kit for it ....so I don't have to.

So then I'll be calling you.

[ptc]

I am right in the midst of doing a roll cage in my '57 and trying to make it track worthy (rules) and also somewhat pleasing to a street vehicle (with 900hp).... found a cage pre-fabbed by ChassisWorks for a very REASONABLE $350 that will fit the build. Im trying to figure if I want rear bars or not. From what I understand from my local track is that if I break out of 10.5 in the 1/4 - they will want them per their rules.

Originally Posted by Rannos

Anyone run the rear bars in under the back glass? I really don't want to cut the uper part of the cab and would like the cage to show as little as possible.

If you want to go thru the window area you can have the rear tubes bent to go that direction. But the max bends and angles still have to meet NHRA rules for most tracks. (I'll explain that later in this reply) Change the rear glass to LEXAN plastic and it is just as nice. Use 1/4" or 5/16" and you wont get that wobbly look.

Originally Posted by vin63

In each configuration of a full body vehicle roll cage, the rear bars have to intersect the horizontal portions of the main hoop, or within 5 inches of the top of the main hoop. If you don't want to run the rear bars out through the top of the cab, you will have to get approval and meet the appropriate SFI spec to build the cage in a roadster configuration.

Roadster or open body cars have a completely different set of rules to meet. So if you go that route check to make sure that something else doesn't apply also.... If youre a regular at a local track and once they 'approve' your install it becomes less of an issue.

Originally Posted by nxtruck

I had mine built this way, as I didn't want any bars going out above the window, either. My chassis guy checked with the NHRA tech on the legality of doing this and having the cage certified and was told that in order for it to be legal, it would have to be a funny car-style cage. I wasn't too fond of that idea, but ended up going that route. Now, that many years have passed, I ended up cutting the funny car tubing out so that I could put a bench seat back in it. It wouldn't pass a cert., but I'm not too concerned, as I don't race at any sanctioned tracks anyway.

The reason why everybody claims "NHRA LEGAL" is because in just about every city that operates your local drag strip (whether public or privately owned) they have to have insurance.... the insurance companies will expressly require "standards" that are based on some sanctioning body of racing for the type you are doing so they have some compliance with safety.

The NHRA is the largest and most reputable body out there in the drag racing world and in many cases insurance companies REQUIRE it be sanctioned by NHRA and not many others. That means their Rule Book (see below) and tech inspectors trained in that realm.

Here you go:

http://www.nhra.com/UserFiles/file/G...egulations.pdf

[vin63]

Originally Posted by ptc

...Im trying to figure if I want rear bars or not.

If you don't have the rear bars in a traditional configuration with a main hoop, then it's not a cage - it's a roll bar. You'll have to build it to SFI-25.4B specs to go without the rearward bars because then it has a funny car cage, the driver is positioned in front of the main hoop, and the frame/structure behind it is not certified. Prior to that spec, the only way I was able to build a roll cage with no bars extending through the top of the cab, was to build the cage in a roadster configuration where it doesn't matter what the body type is just as long as the roll cage meets the spec and passes tech. Just like my funny car chassis I built, the portion that gets tech'd, sonic tested, and certified each year is just the portion above the shoulder hoop - in this center steer and a roadster (left steer) configuration, that's the roll cage. Note that there is no significant structure behind the cage. That's how many of us with a funny car chassis are able to run funny car and fuel altered since the body type doesn't matter with this type of roll cage:

[ptc]

Ok so I called NHRA PacDiv and talked with their chassis insp. Asked him: Is it possible to make a full-frame vehicle NHRA legal with a roll bar that is not welded to frame? For the purpose of removing the cab from the frame...... there must be a way to get around this? besides cutting out the complete floor?

Per 4.10 below it says it can be bolted to an OEM frame. Would my frame such as it is modified (but not where the cab bolts onto, it is only boxed) be able to have plates welded in cab and bolted thru cab to frame welded plates??? He said he would have to get back to me on it..... ??????

If you guys have pics of what you did please post them up - could use all the help I can get!!!! Thanks!!!!

Heres the Spec:

4:10 ROLL BAR
All roll bars must be within 6 inches of the rear, or side, of the driver’s head, extend in height at least 3 inches above the driver’s helmet with driver in normal driving position or be within 1 inch of the roof/headliner in the area above the driver's helmet, and be at least as wide as the driver's shoulders or within 1 inch of the driver's door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or crossbraced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5 inches from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear braces must be welded to main hoop. Sidebar must be included on driver’s side and must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow.

Swing-out sidebar permitted. All roll bars must have in their construction a cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point; cross bar must be installed no more than 4 inches below, and not above, the driver’s shoulders or to side bar. All vehicles with OEM frame must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame; installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame; therefore it is not necessary to have the roll bar attached to the frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheeltubs permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch x 6-inch x.125-inch steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with at least four 3/8-inch bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to rocker sill area with .125-inch reinforcing plates, with plates welded completely.

[Rannos]

Anyone run the rear bars in under the back glass? I really don't want to cut the uper part of the cab and would like the cage to show as little as possible.

[vin63]

Originally Posted by Rannos

Anyone run the rear bars in under the back glass? I really don't want to cut the uper part of the cab and would like the cage to show as little as possible.

In each configuration of a full body vehicle roll cage, the rear bars have to intersect the horizontal portions of the main hoop, or within 5 inches of the top of the main hoop. If you don't want to run the rear bars out through the top of the cab, you will have to get approval and meet the appropriate SFI spec to build the cage in a roadster configuration.

[nxtruck]

Originally Posted by vin63

In each configuration of a full body vehicle roll cage, the rear bars have to intersect the horizontal portions of the main hoop, or within 5 inches of the top of the main hoop. If you don't want to run the rear bars out through the top of the cab, you will have to get approval and meet the appropriate SFI spec to build the cage in a roadster configuration.

I posted my reply before reading vin63's reply, but he is dead-on the money with this.

[nxtruck]

Originally Posted by Rannos

Anyone run the rear bars in under the back glass? I really don't want to cut the uper part of the cab and would like the cage to show as little as possible.

I had mine built this way, as I didn't want any bars going out above the window, either. My chassis guy checked with the NHRA tech on the legality of doing this and having the cage certified and was told that in order for it to be legal, it would have to be a funny car-style cage. I wasn't too fond of that idea, but ended up going that route. Now, that many years have passed, I ended up cutting the funny car tubing out so that I could put a bench seat back in it. It wouldn't pass a cert., but I'm not too concerned, as I don't race at any sanctioned tracks anyway.

[Rannos]

Originally Posted by nxtruck

I had mine built this way, as I didn't want any bars going out above the window, either. My chassis guy checked with the NHRA tech on the legality of doing this and having the cage certified and was told that in order for it to be legal, it would have to be a funny car-style cage. I wasn't too fond of that idea, but ended up going that route. Now, that many years have passed, I ended up cutting the funny car tubing out so that I could put a bench seat back in it. It wouldn't pass a cert., but I'm not too concerned, as I don't race at any sanctioned tracks anyway.

I don't either. The cage is more for my safety and to te-enforce the frame. My truck isn't really fast but it does flex a good bit when I launch. Plus I want to upgrade from lap belts to a harness.

[Wasted Income]

That's always been my hangup on caging full frame vehicles. I like the ability of separating body from frame if need be.

[ptc]

Is there any reason why this cant work for a rear hoop and rear bars in a single cab truck? They allow this configuration inside an 'extra' cab style truck with no bars going out the rear.

[BR3W CITY]

The version I was reading (a bit out of date, but shouldn't matter for this particular part), says that the "rear bars must support the main hoop in a way that prevents it from collapsing or buckling".... but also that "the rear bars must be welded or bolted to the frame, subframe, or oem driveshaft tunnel"

I'm not sure where your down/rear bars would be connecting in that image. Trailing arm/suspension xmember?

[vin63]

4-10 is the description for a "Roll Bar" not a "Roll Cage" just so that we're all on the same page. For a "Roll Bar" the rearward bars must be welded to the main hoop. If your track tech inspectors will allow for the rearward bars to not pass outside the cab in an extended cab truck configuration, then go for it. Check with your track to see if they have a minimum length of the rearward bars...some do.

[ptc]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

The version I was reading (a bit out of date, but shouldn't matter for this particular part), says that the "rear bars must support the main hoop in a way that prevents it from collapsing or buckling".... but also that "the rear bars must be welded or bolted to the frame, subframe, or oem driveshaft tunnel"

I'm not sure where your down/rear bars would be connecting in that image. Trailing arm/suspension xmember?

That should be the design criteria, and for just a hoop 'bar' then something going backwards would employ that support per 4.10. BUT wouldn't the door bars going forward employ that same criteria? From a purely structural engineering standpont it would, because it makes it into a cage at that point. Lateral and shear forces would be taken care of by windshield and dash bars, cross bracing and gussets at the welded corners. In my drawing the middle bars would mount to a frame crossmember directly under the cab. It could all be bolt in so the cab can separate from the chassis.

Originally Posted by vin63

4-10 is the description for a "Roll Bar" not a "Roll Cage" just so that we're all on the same page. For a "Roll Bar" the rearward bars must be welded to the main hoop. If your track tech inspectors will allow for the rearward bars to not pass outside the cab in an extended cab truck configuration, then go for it. Check with your track to see if they have a minimum length of the rearward bars...some do.

Yea they (NHRA Tech) never called me back, must be too much to think about in the "off-season".... But my explanation above makes structural sense to you?

Whether its called a 'bar' or a 'cage', the MAIN hoop is supported one direction or the other by welded attachment by 2 other points minimum, to 'keep from collapsing'. That is the intent of the rule I would think. If its 4 points forward or 4 points rearward, why should it matter if the MAIN hoop is supported over the drivers head?

[vin63]

There can be significant differences in specifications, materials, welding process and applications. The "roll cage" specification encompasses the driver 360 degrees, which does not necessarily require a main hoop supported by rear braces. However, a "roll bar" does specifically require a main hoop and it must be supported with rear braces. As far as supporting the main hoop "over the head" of the driver in a "roll bar" configuration, that is also determined by the type of tubing you use for the rear braces. Otherwise, if the same material is used for the main hoop and rear braces, the highest point the rear braces can be welded to the main hoop is 5", or lower, from the top of the main hoop. But, in the end, it's what the track tech inspectors permit or deny. Check with your local track tech inspectors.

Originally Posted by ptc

Whether its called a 'bar' or a 'cage', the MAIN hoop is supported one direction or the other by welded attachment by 2 other points minimum, to 'keep from collapsing'. That is the intent of the rule I would think. If its 4 points forward or 4 points rearward, why should it matter if the MAIN hoop is supported over the drivers head?