Starter engaes, won't spin. HEI wiring..?

[SonomaComa]

My 1969 C20 just quite starting. The solenoid engages the bendix but will not spin. I had the Starter and Battery tested and they are both good. So I cleaned all connections and replaced the starter anyways. Still the same thing, bendix engages but will not turn the engine over.
It does have a HEI.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by SonomaComa

My 1969 C20 just quite starting. The solenoid engages the bendix but will not spin. I had the Starter and Battery tested and they are both good. So I cleaned all connections and replaced the starter anyways. Still the same thing, bendix engages but will not turn the engine over.
It does have a HEI.

See if this will help.


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=655903

[SonomaComa]

Thanks for the valuable information, it is greatly appreciated.
What is weird is that both headlights were not properly seated in the housing, they were put in a little crooked, clocked wrong. After I adjusted them the truck wouldn't start! Then bendix will kick out but will not turn, even with a battery charger hooked up. It happened that fast. No previous symptoms or slow starting ever.
It does still have an External Voltage Regulator

[starterman99]

Sounds like no power to starter positive connection at solenoid. the key is sending signal to solenoid to engage starter but no connection from battery positve to crank starter.

[SonomaComa]

Originally Posted by starterman99

Sounds like no power to starter positive connection at solenoid. the key is sending signal to solenoid to engage starter but no connection from battery positve to crank starter.

It has new battery terminals and I cleaned the starter and ground connections too, they weren't bad to begin with. Soon as I got done adjusting those headlights it wouldn't start, (and I just drove the vehicle to the gas station with no starting issues.) I put the battery charger on it and it started fine. Now the starter engages but won't spin no matter what I do.
What could cause problem to happen so fast?
External Voltage Regulator to malfunction....?
Bad Ignition Switch.....?
Wiring near the Headlights...?

[Dead Parrot]

Assuming the new starter is good and the battery really is good, double check the main battery cables. They can corrode on the inside and look good on the outside. Do you have a second battery to use as a test? Maybe the battery test gizmo lied.

If the cables are good, make sure the engine didn't lock up. Unlikely but possible. Pull the plugs and make sure coolant doesn't come out one of the cylinders. It is possible it chose the exact time you were fixing the headlights to develop a coolant leak.

[SonomaComa]

Originally Posted by Dead Parrot

Assuming the new starter is good and the battery really is good, double check the main battery cables. They can corrode on the inside and look good on the outside. Do you have a second battery to use as a test? Maybe the battery test gizmo lied.

If the cables are good, make sure the engine didn't lock up. Unlikely but possible. Pull the plugs and make sure coolant doesn't come out one of the cylinders. It is possible it chose the exact time you were fixing the headlights to develop a coolant leak.

Thank you for your reply. I was toggling between 2 starters and 3 batteries. It would work at random times on any configuration of parts that were used.
When I adjusted the headlights I also replaced a short 10Ga. jumper wire from the positive battery terminal to the junction box right next to the battery on the passenger fender. I purchased that wire from Home Depot, it is thick strand wire and says it is rated to 600 volts. Every time I disconnected and re-connected the battery it would make contact for a short time. It is hard to crimp thick strand wire so I made another one and same thing would happen. I ran out of options so I decided to take the jumper wire, heat the eyelets with a torch and solder them. That was it, now it starts every time!
I thought 10 gauge was 10 gauge wire no matter what and it would all work the same.

[SonomaComa]

Besides crimping quality for connectors is there a difference between thin multi strand wire vs a few thick strands in the same gauge?

[lsversaw]

Sonoma, all new 10 ga wire, solid or stranded, should have the same conductivity. There will be far more variability in the connection between wire and connectors than there is in the wire itself. So...

My theory is that your new 10 ga wire from the battery to the terminal block initially had resistance in it due to incomplete crimps. When you soldered it (good move!) you removed the rouge resistance.

But my theory requires that the starter solenoid moved enough to click, but not enough to close the contacts that engage the starter, due to voltage lost through the connector/wire interface. Hmmm...

Question for Those Smarter Than Me (like Vette Vet!): is it possible that the starter solenoid can click but not close the starter contacts, especially with less than full voltage?...

...AND is it possible/likely that Sonoma has a marginal starter solenoid that works fine with full voltage, but gets stuck halfway when voltage is low? If so, then Sonoma may have a reason to replace the starter soon, before the solenoid goes from marginal to bad.

[VetteVet]

..................

Originally Posted by lsversaw

Sonoma, all new 10 ga wire, solid or stranded, should have the same conductivity. There will be far more variability in the connection between wire and connectors than there is in the wire itself. So...

My theory is that your new 10 ga wire from the battery to the terminal block initially had resistance in it due to incomplete crimps. When you soldered it (good move!) you removed the rouge resistance.

Good possibility. I always recommend jumping the solenoid at the starter. Large cable to S terminal. This removes the primary wiring to the solenoid and isolates the solenoid and the starter to just the large cable and the battery power and connections.

But my theory requires that the starter solenoid moved enough to click, but not enough to close the contacts that engage the starter, due to voltage lost through the connector/wire interface. Hmmm...

Usually the solenoid will chatter if the voltage is low. The solenoid has two coils in the electromagnet, the kick out and the hold in coils. If it holds then the contacts should be made on the starter. The starter will not turn if the large cable has too much resistance or battery voltage is low, but the solenoid will hold in. I was going to suggest a voltage drop test on the large cable for less than ten volts.

There are reasons the starter won't turn if internal malfunctions exist such as brushes or broken wires and the binding of the bendix gear to flywheel, or engine seizure. Binding is pretty obvious.
This is a good explanation of the starter function.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=655903



Question for Those Smarter Than Me (like Vette Vet!): is it possible that the starter solenoid can click but not close the starter contacts, especially with less than full voltage?... See above

...AND is it possible/likely that Sonoma has a marginal starter solenoid that works fine with full voltage, but gets stuck halfway when voltage is low? If so, then Sonoma may have a reason to replace the starter soon, before the solenoid goes from marginal to bad.

Yes and yes

[franken]

Headlights have exactly nothing to do w/ the starter cranking the engine. The op needs to measure voltage to ground (solenoid and starter) in order to know much.

[SonomaComa]

Originally Posted by franken

Headlights have exactly nothing to do w/ the starter cranking the engine. The op needs to measure voltage to ground (solenoid and starter) in order to know much.

Yea I know, it was just a weird coincidence that after adjusting the headlights the starter would just kick the bendix out an not turn over. And replacing that 10Ga. jumper wire fro the positive battery terminal to the junction block too.
So now I'm going to get some 1Ga. battery cables with auxiliary wires built in. Like this but shorter. https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p...6011/CBL716011