Check PCM Tire Size - Rear Ratio

[MidLifer]

Hey guys - at long last my 6.0/4L80e swap is "done" (are we ever done?) and I'm shaking the bugs out. One thing I'm noticing is that the tranny is shifting hard, to the point where if I have any kind of foot in it, it barks the rear tires. I would like to look into it to see what the tire size and rear ratio is set to, and I'm wondering if any of the phone apps can at least show me that data so I can say whether or not it may be an issue, or if I need Diablo/HPTuners or something like that just to see it. I realize that to change the programming I'll need access to one of those programs. Looking for someone in the area who may have it, but in the mean time I'm wondering if I can use a cheaper app just to read where it's set.

[Hart_Rod]

Who did your tune? They should be able to tell you. It really sounds like they removed all of your torque management, which is not a good thing...

[MidLifer]

I bought the PCM and harness from board member 68 Four on the Floor. He removed VATS and downstream O2 but did not say that he did anything else, so I'm assuming the PCM is programmed as it was when it was on the 2003 2500HD it came from. I don't see why he would have removed the torque management but I'm in touch with him over PM and will specifically ask.

I had read on another forum that if the tire size or rear ratio is markedly different from the vehicle it came out of it can mess with the shift points. I'm assuming that my tires (235/75R16) are not that different from what was on there but I have a 4.10 rear and the truck may have had 3.42 or something different.

In any case, do I need tuner software to check this or can I read it through an OBDII reader with an app?

[Hart_Rod]

Tire size and gear ratio will affect your shift points. Pretty sure you will need something like HPtuners/EFILive to check the numbers. He should still have a copy of your tune and be able to tell you what numbers are in there.

[mongocanfly]

I'd put it on a dyno and get everything tuned for your setup...my 6.0 had a basic tune and the dyno man got me another 40hp and a bunch of torque...well worth the 300$$ it cost...it got my mpgs up also

[MidLifer]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do just that.

As often is the case on this board, I find that in my area prices seem to be higher than what a lot of you pay for services. I called a few speed shops in the Philadelphia area and the going rate for a tune is $650. The VIN codes alone for HP Tuners cost $200 and a business owner has gotta pay the rent and salaries so it sounds fair to me. Gonna get the truck in over the next week or so and get it tuned, and have the tire size/rear ratio checked as well as all the other settings to be sure everything is set up right.

Those of you who pay $300 for tunes are getting a good deal!

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

I'd put it on a dyno and get everything tuned for your setup...my 6.0 had a basic tune and the dyno man got me another 40hp and a bunch of torque...well worth the 300$$ it cost...it got my mpgs up also

[BR3W CITY]

When quoting tunes, keep in mind what your actually getting. Plenty of places will do a 3-pull tune, and then send you on the way with the best number they get. HP Tuners credits are $100 for GenIII. GenV costs 3x as much because you need to hard code unlock the ECM. A quick flash off an existing build (basically a canned tune) is cheaper, but isn't "built" for the car its going in, so certain quirks of a build will affect the results, and there is no trans tuning or feedback.

To have a FULL tune that actually addresses things deeper than VE scaling and emission removal, you need more than 3 pulls and an hour of a tuners time. Depending on the type of setup and goals, that can be hours on the dyno and miles on the street. This is getting logs, making changes, logging again etc. Then the tuner takes the data and builds the tune (again time depending on scope), and the car goes back on the rollers to test and finally get peak #'s. A dyno is a tool, the actual #'s are virtually irrelevant.

$5-700 is what I'd expect on a GenIII/IV car that actually needs a tune built and roller time. Boosted or crazy stuff add another 1-200.
The tunes on upgraded blower/fuel system Gen V's are getting booked $850-1250+, and take HOURS on the dyno to do properly.

[MidLifer]

Thanks BR3W. That's what I asked for, a full dyno tune, and I called reputable speed shops, not shade tree Craigslist guys. I spent $4K and a few hundred hours of my time on this swap, so another $650 to get the most out of it is worth it to me. Right now the engine is running so-so, and the shifts are not good, and I did this swap because I wanted more.

This is not a ***** and not pointed at anyone in particular, but this issue of money is a recurrent thing for me on this list. I live in the Northeast where everything costs more, so I get it, but there have been a number of examples where people have said "I got my truck painted with 5 coats of base and 3 of clear for $500" (exaggeration intentional) or something similar, which turns out to not be true here in Blue Jersey. Just recently someone told me that an engine cover from a dealer would cost $40 and all the dealers in my area quoted twice that.

I'm not accusing anyone of lying, but I guess there are parts of this country where people will work and sell stuff for much less than they do here, or maybe these are buddy deals.

It's all good and I'm always thankful for the advice and expertise I get on this list. Thanks all for your support of the hobby. It makes it better for all of us.

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

When quoting tunes, keep in mind what your actually getting. Plenty of places will do a 3-pull tune, and then send you on the way with the best number they get. HP Tuners credits are $100 for GenIII. GenV costs 3x as much because you need to hard code unlock the ECM. A quick flash off an existing build (basically a canned tune) is cheaper, but isn't "built" for the car its going in, so certain quirks of a build will affect the results, and there is no trans tuning or feedback.

To have a FULL tune that actually addresses things deeper than VE scaling and emission removal, you need more than 3 pulls and an hour of a tuners time. Depending on the type of setup and goals, that can be hours on the dyno and miles on the street. This is getting logs, making changes, logging again etc. Then the tuner takes the data and builds the tune (again time depending on scope), and the car goes back on the rollers to test and finally get peak #'s. A dyno is a tool, the actual #'s are virtually irrelevant.

$5-700 is what I'd expect on a GenIII/IV car that actually needs a tune built and roller time. Boosted or crazy stuff add another 1-200.
The tunes on upgraded blower/fuel system Gen V's are getting booked $850-1250+, and take HOURS on the dyno to do properly.

[BR3W CITY]

Skip past this post for relevant tuning discussion.

/forum sociology

Thats something you'll find in any thread about build costs, and for a variety of reasons. Satisfaction/value, is a metric completely based on perception.

$20 on the east coast where median incomes are over $60k, is not the same as $20 in Arkansas. But thats a national metric with hard #'s that can actual be calculated.

Where it gets wild is when considering a consumers desire to appear justified. You'll see this on consumer review sites or in-the-moment (sometimes called NPS or Net Promoter Score). This is the idea that when a person spends their hard earned money, they WANT to be satisfied with the product...even if that means glossing over imperfections. When a new product releases (the gaming industry is a great example), there is a built in bias to WANT to love the game because you just spent $60...I mean, if you wanted the game to suck, why waste the money? This is often while you'll see reviews for new products trend downward as time passes, faults are found, and consumers disconnect from the product (along with the money they spent on it). Entire businesses are built on making items cheap enough, that even if they SUCK, they will have made their money on volume BEFORE faults are found and reviews are viewable.

Now, the cost-downscaling that some people do is a separate, yet related, concept. The source is similar (justification/vindication), but also includes a level of subconscious ego. That being the desire to highlight a desired trait; connections, thriftiness, cunning, luck. Saying you got a vendor hookup or "have a guy" (and I'm 20000% guilty of this) is a social posture. NOT saying you have a hookup if you do, is also a social posture, but one meant to downplay the advantages that person has, in favor of the image that it was their efforts alone. (this is what you call the Daddy's Money effect in builds).

This stuff all exists in most of our social interactions in life. Forums are just a fun microcosm which we can easily voyeur.

/forum sociology

[MidLifer]

Here's my ego speaking in response to something you wrote below - I am in charge of an app with a few million subscribers, and our users have no problem giving us one-star reviews day one if there is the slightest bug in a new release. I only wish we could get away with shipping bad product and having a honeymoon period! My job would be so much easier!

OK, back to tuning now. I called another speed shop and the price quote was the same. $600-650 seems to be where the market clears on a good tune from a reputable shop in my area. I've been on this earth for 5 decades now and have learned the hard way that many times you get what you pay for, and there is no free lunch. When you cut corners, watch out because there may be dogs*** on the lawn that you'll step in!

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Skip past this post for relevant tuning discussion.

/forum sociology

Thats something you'll find in any thread about build costs, and for a variety of reasons. Satisfaction/value, is a metric completely based on perception.

$20 on the east coast where median incomes are over $60k, is not the same as $20 in Arkansas. But thats a national metric with hard #'s that can actual be calculated.

Where it gets wild is when considering a consumers desire to appear justified. You'll see this on consumer review sites or in-the-moment (sometimes called NPS or Net Promoter Score). This is the idea that when a person spends their hard earned money, they WANT to be satisfied with the product...even if that means glossing over imperfections. When a new product releases (the gaming industry is a great example), there is a built in bias to WANT to love the game because you just spent $60...I mean, if you wanted the game to suck, why waste the money? This is often while you'll see reviews for new products trend downward as time passes, faults are found, and consumers disconnect from the product (along with the money they spent on it). Entire businesses are built on making items cheap enough, that even if they SUCK, they will have made their money on volume BEFORE faults are found and reviews are viewable.

Now, the cost-downscaling that some people do is a separate, yet related, concept. The source is similar (justification/vindication), but also includes a level of subconscious ego. That being the desire to highlight a desired trait; connections, thriftiness, cunning, luck. Saying you got a vendor hookup or "have a guy" (and I'm 20000% guilty of this) is a social posture. NOT saying you have a hookup if you do, is also a social posture, but one meant to downplay the advantages that person has, in favor of the image that it was their efforts alone. (this is what you call the Daddy's Money effect in builds).

This stuff all exists in most of our social interactions in life. Forums are just a fun microcosm which we can easily voyeur.

/forum sociology

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by MidLifer

Here's my ego speaking in response to something you wrote below - I am in charge of an app with a few million subscribers, and our users have no problem giving us one-star reviews day one if there is the slightest bug in a new release. I only wish we could get away with shipping bad product and having a honeymoon period! My job would be so much easier!

OK, back to tuning now. I called another speed shop and the price quote was the same. $600-650 seems to be where the market clears on a good tune from a reputable shop in my area. I've been on this earth for 5 decades now and have learned the hard way that many times you get what you pay for, and there is no free lunch. When you cut corners, watch out because there may be dogs*** on the lawn that you'll step in!

Weird stuff happens all the time in tuning. The stuff that gets brought in will make you scratch your head sometimes. My Yukon had at some point had a really oddball cal thrown in it, before I ever owned it....yet even with direct access to the stuff, I still never got around to actually logging my truck to sort out problems until it was time for a full tune.

[mongocanfly]

on costs diffrences I agree...this site has kinda opened my eyes to the differences of what something costs from east to west and south to north...sometimes its amazing how big a difference....what a guy pays for something is cal, there is no way I would pay that much here....one of the perks of living down here I guess...