55.2-59 59 Disc brake upgrade

[BlouDon]

What would be the easiest / quickest / cheapest method of upgrading the front brakes to disc brakes? (BTW, I already have a brand new set of '73 onwards discs)

I'm not including a brake servo in this question but if there is an elegant way of adding a servo, I'm all ears.

[dsraven]

stock solid axle?
want to keep the same wheel bolt pattern as the rear?
gonna use a proportioning valve from a different vehicle with roughly the same set up or go with an adjustable proportioning valve?
you should know if you want power or manual brakes before you buy the new master cylinder because the bore diameter of the master cylinder can be a different size for the two and a larger bore with manual brakes equals more pedal/leg effort to get the same amount of braking. a smaller bore is easier to push but displaces less fluid so the pedal travels further down to get the same amount of fluid displaced. ensure the rear brakes are adjusted properly and have a park brake set that works and is also adjusted properly (loosened off before the service brakes are adjusted, then adjusted when the service brake adjustment is completed). you will need a new master brake cylinder because the stock one is a single system, meaning it only has one circuit in it to operate front and rear brakes. if you lose one of those systems due to leak or whatever then you lose both front and rear brakes at the same time. newer systems, since the '60's, have dual circuits. you will also need to know which circuit is sup[posed to connect to which port on the new master cylinder.
check
all brake steel lines and rubber lines for dents, corrosion or mechanical damage.
wheel cylinders for leakage
rear brake linings for wear
park brake components for wear and service
adjust rear brakes then park brakes
all brake linkages for wear/mechanical damages/binding from the pedal down to the master cylinder

[BlouDon]

Thanks for your input!

Originally Posted by dsraven

stock solid axle?

Yep

Originally Posted by dsraven

want to keep the same wheel bolt pattern as the rear?

Preferrably. 6 stud.

Originally Posted by dsraven

gonna use a proportioning valve from a different vehicle with roughly the same set up or go with an adjustable proportioning valve?

I'm quite happy to use an adjustable proportioning valve. Had to implement one on my '70 C10 having done a similar assisted disc brake upgrade on it.

Originally Posted by dsraven

you should know if you want power or manual brakes before you buy the new master cylinder because the bore diameter of the master cylinder can be a different size for the two and a larger bore with manual brakes equals more pedal/leg effort to get the same amount of braking. a smaller bore is easier to push but displaces less fluid so the pedal travels further down to get the same amount of fluid displaced.

Understood. I would prefer to have vacuum assisted brakes.

Originally Posted by dsraven

you will need a new master brake cylinder because the stock one is a single system, meaning it only has one circuit in it to operate front and rear brakes. if you lose one of those systems due to leak or whatever then you lose both front and rear brakes at the same time.

Did not know this. Dual system is a must. Braking is not to be compromised on.

Given the above, what would the recommendation be? Perhaps this ? : https://www.classicperform.com/Store...s/5559CBK6.htm

Could I use the hardware from a 73 onwards with a bracket?

[dsraven]

what engine trans combo are you running? will you be upgrading to a power steering unit at some point as well? asking because the small diameter single diaphragm vacuum power brake units are not as effective for boost as a double diaphragm or larger diaphragm unit. due to limited space under the floor where the master cylinder is located some have gone to a hydroboost unit which uses a power steering pump as a hydraulic source. they work very well and there are kits available just like there are kits for a vacuum assist brake set up. the issue is you need a power steering pump to operate them.
when going to a disc/drum set up you may need to ask when buying the new master cylinder or kit. some master cylinders will be rebuilds and may have the built in residual valves in the outlet of the master cylinder. these were used for drum brakes to keep a residual pressure in the system so the lips of the seals in the wheel cylinders keep tight against the bores of the cylinders and didn't leak contaminants into the system or fluid out of the system as well as assist in keeping the wheel cylinder pistons from retracting all the way back, which helps with pedal travel. the disc brake set up can be a little different and some will use a 2 psi valve inline just to keep the pedal from getting spongy. with a low mount master cylinder you may require inline residual valves in order to get the system to work properly.

some info on brake valving

https://techtalk.mpbrakes.com/how-to...valve-overview

https://www.wilwood.com/search/partn...sidual%20valve

https://www.mico.com/sites/default/f...re%20Valve.PDF

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/shop/...RoCq08QAvD_BwE

an example of the hydroboost system

https://westernchassisinc.com/1955-5...ke-Assist-Kit/

some stuff to think about

https://itstillruns.com/single-dual-...r-6048376.html

https://techtalk.mpbrakes.com/booste...ur-classic-car

https://techtalk.mpbrakes.com/how-to...ng-pedal-ratio

https://techtalk.mpbrakes.com/componet-size

https://techtalk.mpbrakes.com/instal...-brake-booster

hope that didn't confuse you too much. better to be informed before spending cashola

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by dsraven

what engine trans combo are you running?

Very good question. I was hoping to retain the original (very good condition) engine by replacing the 3-sp manual with a 700R4 (I'm a big fan of the overdrive 4th). But it seems from another thread that this (blue flame??) engine will not be a straight bolt-on to the 700R4. Late 4.1s are dirt cheap out here, I'm thinking to simply drop a 4.1 / 700R4 combo in there. This 59 is meant to be a civilised, quiet cruiser. My C10 has the V8 which ticks "that" box.

Originally Posted by dsraven

will you be upgrading to a power steering unit at some point as well?

Another good question! I already have a complete Jag front (and rear) suspension. For the money it will cost to get just one of these brake kits, I might as well just fit the Jag suspension and be done with it!! Then I'll have:
- Disc brakes;
- Power steering;
- Independent suspension;
- Anti-roll bar.

Originally Posted by dsraven

with a low mount master cylinder you may require inline residual valves in order to get the system to work properly.

This is new to me! Thanks for the heads-up. Nothing is ever simple! Will remember to ask about this should I go for the low mount system.

I see there are also firewall mounted solutions. Why not go for these?

[dsraven]

If it is the stock old truck you want then you gotta keep the firewall clean and somewhat stock looking engine. If you want something that's gonna be fun to drive and roll through traffic like a newer car and be able to park somewhere without having arms like the hulk then personally I would upgrade the whole thing. Especially if you already have the jag front and rear. Stick a firewall mounted booster and master in the mix and whatever engine trans combo is readily available.
That's just me though. Somebody somewhere is taking a deep sigh right now and thinking"zButcher!"

[mr48chev]

You can connect a 700R4 to the 235 but it takes a special adapter.

http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/sto...egory=18665953

That is 360.00 US dollars plus 60.00 US dollars for the starter to go with it.

700R4 require exacting adjustments on the Cable that runs between the throttle linkage and transmission or you kill the transmission in short order. The adjustment has to be perfect.

Some sources say that the 700R4 doesn't work that well with a 235 though.

250 swap? I ran a 250 for over 100 thousand miles in my 48 and they are great engines. Plenty of power to run down the highway at legal speed limits if they are geared right and as long as you take care of them they are as reliable as any engine on the market. Plus any transmission that bolts on to a Chevy V8 will bolt on to them.
Again though, are they and their parts readily available where you are at? To me that is the key when you are swapping parts, are you going to be able to source repair and general maintenance parts locally without a lot of trouble? Paying a premium for mail or shipping for what should be common parts because the have to be ordered from the states or somewhere else isn't the most productive thing.

A lot of guys on here are prone to suggesting their favorite aftermarket parts that they can source locally easily or get from an online source in a day or two but even some of those parts can leave you stranded in the US if you are on a road trip. They don't consider what may or may not be available in South Africa and what donor vehicles may be common and plentiful there.

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

You can connect a 700R4 to the 235 but it takes a special adapter.

This change is off the table for now. I am now pursuing the fitment of a 3.15 ratio Ford Ranger diff which would bring the standard manual ratios into "acceptable" category.

This implies that the engine and transmission and stick shift arrangement stays original - which I like.

This truck is no longer going to do the kind of work it was meant to do, so now it has to be a relaxed cruiser.

[mr48chev]

The Ranger rear has a 5 on 4.5 114.3 MM lug bolt pattern that is going to mess up your wheel selection.