Flex?

[chipotledude05]

How much do you guys think a '61 4x4 with the original leaf springs articulate? And also, how much would this effect its off-road performance? A friend of mine doesn't put much faith in an old chevy (jeep guy). What do you guys think?

[Blazer1970]

Flex is highly overrated, but it totally depends on the type of wheeling that you intend to do.

[Destructo]

Here what 3 leaf CUCV military truck springs in the front and stock 6 leaf 1/2 ton springs will do without a sway bar.

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by Blazer1970

Flex is highly overrated, but it totally depends on the type of wheeling that you intend to do.

when you're stuck in Michigan and all you have to play in is mud, i can see why you would think that.

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by 1FaastC10

when you're stuck in Michigan and all you have to play in is mud, i can see why you would think that.

the 3 red dots are roughly Elkhart, West Olive, and Doylestown (for S & G).

[chipotledude05]

I'm really interested in my truck being an all around good 4x4. I mainly want to stick to trails and less to rocks and mud holes. overall, nothing too extreme, but i would still like to be able to prove a few jeep guys wrong.

wow. that pic definately makes me feel better

[Destructo]

I used to have Rough Country 4" lift springs front and rear, it flexes better with the stock springs actually.

So, if you go with lift springs choose them wisely, Tuff Country makes good flexy springs and they ride good too. Shackle angle is also important when considering flex, also having the proper bump stops to stop up travel and the right shock setup so everything works together.

Also removing your front swaybar will help your flex out a lot, and with it lifted I didn't notice a whole lot of difference while driving.

[Blazer1970]

Originally Posted by chipotledude05

I'm really interested in my truck being an all around good 4x4. I mainly want to stick to trails and less to rocks and mud holes. overall, nothing too extreme, but i would still like to be able to prove a few jeep guys wrong.

wow. that pic definately makes me feel better

With this type of wheeling:

#1 - rear locker
#2 - front locker
after that you can worry about flex if you still think you need to, but the only advantage your Jeep friends will have is that they will fit down trails that your fullsize will not.

[LONGHAIR]

I wouldn't put a true "locker" in the front of anything, for at least 2 reasons.

1) A truely locking diff (detroit) will be very qwerky and jerky on the front axle.

2) Even more importantly, you will break axles with one. If you have anything moderately large tire-wise, the short side axle can't take it very long. Big horsepower and a stick-shift add to the problem.

You are far better off with a True-track or a Torsen type differential if you want "posi" on the front.

[Destructo]

Running 33's and a locked front axle should be ok, but, if your joints are old you may break one.

Anything but a real locker is useless off-road, if you want traction get a real locker, or better yet a selectable ARB for the front and a regular locker for the rear.

A Torsen differential may work fine, but I prefer 100% to both wheels, whatever you do though don't weld the front!

Of course i'm talking about "real" off-roading here where your not worried about how it handles on the street too much.

I welded the rear axle on my zuke, and I would not hesitate to lock the front if I had power steering and wasn't selling it...

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by Destructo

I welded the rear axle on my zuke, and I would not hesitate to lock the front if I had power steering and wasn't selling it...

you change your mind more often than most people change their underwear.

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

I wouldn't put a true "locker" in the front of anything, for at least 2 reasons.

1) A truely locking diff (detroit) will be very qwerky and jerky on the front axle.

simple solution, unlock the hubs, shift transfer case to 2wd. no input to locker, no lock.

[LONGHAIR]

simple solution, unlock the hubs, shift transfer case to 2wd. no input to locker, no lock.

and no point!
Yeah, spend the money for a locker and then disable it. You might as well have a 2 wheel drive truck, Oh and put the locker on the front seat

[1FaastC10]

on my truck i am running a shackle flip on the rear (give 6" of lift) and i am running stock 52" rear springs front and rear on my rig. they should flex pretty good. this pic isnt my rig, but he is running the same setup.


http://www.austink5.net/gallery/albu...1433.sized.jpg

[1969 GMC]

oh, and as to the original question, stock springs are fine. since your truck is already 44 years old, they should be nice and loose ;-)

if you do need more flex, you can do a spring swap as jeremy suggested.

[earl87gta]

I run lockers in front and rear just doble stick your transfer case so you can disingage the front in a possition ware you need a little more turning and when on the street thats what lock out hubs are for alot of guys will even only lock one hub on trails with a lot of turns. Or you can use hydrolic steering and not worry a bought it. mY blazer has 36in tires on it with recentered hummer wheels and Im running D60 in the front 14blt in the rear so I havent busted any thing yet but im sure I will some day.

[Destructo]

running with one hub locked is asking for trouble, talk about breaking axles hehe.

With a locker you shouldn't need hydraulic steering or to unlock one hub, i'v only seen that needed when you weld the front, a locker should let the tires turn unless your putting a load on it.

[earl87gta]

My truck is a bear to turn with out the hydrolic ram at an alomost dead stop on the trail with the locker it it does want to turn sharp and tends to walk side ways so I just disingage the front end and leave the rear in low. after I turn back to 4 low. the only time it gives me a scarry ride on the street is in snow some times it will leave you white knuckled if you have it in 4x4. I dont sugest a locker in the snow untill you are use to having one in the front.

[Destructo]

I have a gov-loc in the rear on my truck, which is now broken, but it likes to go all fishy in the road when it snows, I can't imagine a locker would be much worse, but you have to learn how to drive with it, but I know guys who drive in the snow with a front and rear locker without any problems.

[earl87gta]

I havent broken a locker yet in this set up but in the old 12b d44 I was olways breaking somthing.

[chipotledude05]

Thanks for all the replies fellas. This thread has gotten pretty interesting. I seriously doubt that I'm going to install any lockers in my truck at the moment. I don't plan on getting that serious, and I've seen my dad's truck, which is of the same era, crawl out of door deep mud and do some other pretty cool stuff with just stock equipment, and I think I'll be attending college in Boulder, CO...plenty of snow there.

Ok, I've had a question for a while: what does double sticking do for your tcase? I can't do it to my t221 because I don't think it was made for that, and I don't think I'd want to modify it that heavily, however, I'd still like to know how the double sticks work.

Thanks,
Matt

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by chipotledude05

Ok, I've had a question for a while: what does double sticking do for your tcase? I can't do it to my t221 because I don't think it was made for that, and I don't think I'd want to modify it that heavily, however, I'd still like to know how the double sticks work.

The twin stick allows you to control your axles independently of each other.
One lever has Lo-N-Hi for the front axle, and one has Lo-N-Hi for the rear axle.
That way you can do neat things like put it in RWD Lo, or drive it in FWD. Put both in Lo, and you have traditional 4 Lo. I am pretty sure that you cannot put one in Hi and one in Lo, and if you did it would probably make the tcase self destruct.

Some older vehicles (like Jeeps and Scouts) had factory twin stick transfer cases, but IIRC it was different than what I described above. I think that with the old style, one lever controlled 2 or 4 wheel, and one controlled Lo or Hi.

With the Rockwell tcase, I don't think you could twin stick it. It would not be worth the effort, even if I am wrong. The Rockwell is a good tcase, but the parts to rebuild one are outrageously priced. I don't know if Meritor still makes the T221, but they still do make the T223 (the bigger brother of the T221, used in some army trucks and aftermarket 4x4 conversions in medium duty trucks since the 60s) brand new. It costs a little over $2k for a brand new T223 in a crate from them, and has been around for as long as the 221 has. That is ridiculous. NP205's can be had all day for $100 or so, and are a lot cheaper to rebuild.

[earl87gta]

Im using a 205 I didnt double stick it until I put the locker in. Its not hard to do and will only coast you like $50 for the hole convertion the shift boot was $30 and I got a stick from a 205 for $10 but you could probly get one from a 203 from a salvafge yard for almost nothing.Thier is a lot of info over on CK5 on the convertion.