smog laws are for one thing only!! Removal!!

[iluvmy72]

I went into a shop today to ask about the Utah smog laws and he told me the pickup has to have the exact engine and smog specs as it was when it was first purchased. I asked him about putting in my 4.3 liter engine and he scoffed and said no. Sure it owuld pass with flying colors on the actual test, but the specs are not correct. This leads me to believe that they are forcing us to remove our trucks from the roads.

[CHEVY & GMC FOREVER]

What type of motor do you have in there originally???

[krue]

Come to Mississippi, you can even burn your tires here, but only one at a time!

[farside847]

I thought cars and trucks built before 1974 were exempt. In CA at least.

[z7199]

Originally Posted by farside847

I thought cars and trucks built before 1974 were exempt. In CA at least.

Here in TX I belive that any car that is older than 25yrs is excluded from the Emmisions test.

[Alexis]

he ain't talking about cali. He moved. right

[Tim240Z]

Originally Posted by farside847

I thought cars and trucks built before 1974 were exempt. In CA at least.

In CA, all 1976 and older vehicles are exempt from biennial and change of ownership testing, not from emissions controls. It is a Federal crime to tamper with, or remove emissions equipment....but, you say, if they don't test 'em, who's to know, right?
Wrong.....just recently, CHP and BAR had roadside test stations set up (La Habra last time I heard). The CHP, or BAR representative can inspect your car, truck etc and if they feel like it, they can send you to a referee or smog test station for testing and compliance review.
Gotta love this damn State!!!

[Striker169]

They are starting to do smog testing in Travis and Williamson Countys (Austin Area) which sucks I want to know if my 69 with a 454 is legal and if it will pass with just mufflers no cats no carbon whatnots nothing just headers pipe mufflers pipe. Cuz if it wont I need to transfer the ownership out of Travis County

[Longhorn Man]

Tim beat me to it while I was typing out that friggen book.

Striker... Your 454 will not be legal, however, if you dress it up like a 396, install the closed air filter, heat riser, PCV valve...ect, (smog pump???) and if it passes the sniffer, then you'll be OK, but get ready for jumpin through hoops. You are not required to have cats, and you ARE able to have headers...even full length, however, you'll need the stupid pipe (stove pipe) that goes up to the air filter. (you can get a stove pipe set up for headers at jegs)
You guys have the IM240 which is a real ***** to fool. If your 454 is hopped up, then you'll have problems. It'll also be hard for you to do the out of county inspection too, your smog county inspection stickers are a different color than your non smog inspection stickers. If a cop sees your truck in front of your house....or at your place of buisness...or all the time in traffic, then you will be found in violation.
The best thing you can do....anyone facing smog tests...is to get a copy of your local smog standards. If you can't locate anything, then check with SEMA, they are hard at work protecting us, and fighting for the hot rodders. You'd be amazed at the stuff that would be passed if it wasn't for SEMA.

Originally Posted by Striker169

They are starting to do smog testing in Travis and Williamson Countys (Austin Area) which sucks I want to know if my 69 with a 454 is legal and if it will pass with just mufflers no cats no carbon whatnots nothing just headers pipe mufflers pipe. Cuz if it wont I need to transfer the ownership out of Travis County

[Longhorn Man]

Even though many states do it differantly, federal law says cars from 64 to present must pass certian smog standards, and any one of them can be required to pass said test at any given time.
Then, they turn it over to the individual states and they screw it all up.
By federal guidlines, you can place that 4.3 engine in your truck...legally, however, for all testing purposes your truck will be a 9-what ever vehicls. (the year of the 4.3) and you'll have to meet or exceed all the smog specs.
To do this swap, and not tick off the smog cops, you'll need to take the entire fuel system, computer, all sensors, service engine soon light, and the single cat too (legally you can not run 2 cats on any 4.3 since they never came like that) Your vehicle would have to go get inspected, to ensure that everything is there and in proper working condition. (fuel evap stuff and a visual on all sensors and check engine light...ect) Then you can go get it inspected.
Another thing you'll end up needing almost defatly is the over drive tranny with lock up converter. This was used to help achieve the lower emissions at cruise speed, which the IM240 smog test duplicates.
Another inacuracy that you were told there, was your engine has to be original.
Bull.
You can install newer engines, but not older.
you can install light duty (car) engines in med duty (light trucks)...but NOT visa versa.
You can install any engine that was an original option and certified for that make/model/configuration....so you can ditch the 250 inline and install the 402 engine...as long as you take all smog related items and install them also.
You can install performance parts. There's not so many problems with that on old stuff like a 72...but later models this is a real PITA. On our stuff, as long as your components are installed, and you pass the sniffer, then you are OK. The problem is things that you see as not important. (enclosed air filter...heat riser...vac lines to the charcol canister) will all get you busted, they are all smog controll items.

Go back and ask 'ole boy where you can get info on this stuff...the state should provide the info you need. If he tells you that you are wasting your time and repeats what he told you already, tell him to show you that in his inspection guide.
A real headache will be getting it smogged every year or what ever your county/state requires. The tech will pop the hood and say WTF? and you'll have to tell him every time and provide proof and blah blah blah.
Real PITA.

[z7199]

I know I just got my 72' inspected and it has no cats and no mufflers on it, just straight pipes right out the back and it passed. And it was only $12.50 for a safety test ONLY. no other tests were performed. That is in Harris County Houston TX

[jcueckert13]

Originally Posted by z7199

I know I just got my 72' inspected and it has no cats and no mufflers on it, just straight pipes right out the back and it passed. And it was only $12.50 for a safety test ONLY. no other tests were performed. That is in Harris County Houston TX

cats were not stock till 1975 or 76.

here in new mexico we only have one county where you have ot pass emissions and they are spreading it out so if you live outside the county but go in to albuquerque more than 60 times a year you have to pass emissions. but if the car was made before 1975 you are exempt because cats and egr where not stock. i think when my s10s registration expires in october i will be switching to the 70 gmc to get around the emissions bs. now if i can just get the combustion temp high enough to make my NOX emissions skyrocket

[TruckinDaddy]

Re: Travis and Williamson Counties, in Texas: Should apply to 1980 or 81 models and newer (I don't know how they are calculating the model year)

http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/air/ms/vim.html#im1

Austin and Round Rock Emissions Testing Program
Timing: Testing begins September 1, 2005 in Travis and Williamson counties.

Subject Vehicles: All 2-24 year old gasoline vehicles (excluding motorcycles) are subject to an annual emissions test beginning with the vehicle's second anniversary.

[Longhorn Man]

On Texas's safety inspection, they are SUPPOSED to do a visual on smog equipment. The aformentioned air cleaner and stuff is supposed to be present. But, some inspectors get lazy and don't even pop the hood.

[z7199]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

On Texas's safety inspection, they are SUPPOSED to do a visual on smog equipment. The aformentioned air cleaner and stuff is supposed to be present. But, some inspectors get lazy and don't even pop the hood.

Yeah they didnt pop the hood so I guess thats why it seems they dont check that stuff. I have also been told buy some inspectors that 25 years and older do not have to pass thats why I said what I said eailer in this thread. I will do more research on this and let you know. And not to sound like I am calling you out but how do you know this stuff?

[Longhorn Man]

I lived at Ft Hood for 7 years, and we were threatened with the IM240 test...I looked into it and learned it.
As far as the Tx safety...I drove junk and had to thrash to make it pass...so i learned the safety inspection....then i simply found ways around it.


As far as the rest of it...the non tx specific stuff... I considered movin to cali, (still think about it) and I like being on top of things, and knowing what I can and can't get away with. I spent a lot of time readin.
you'd probably crap if you herard what the EPA wants to do for OBD3...and what the govenment is doin to HELP them....GPS installed on your car ids part of the plan.

Originally Posted by z7199

And not to sound like I am calling you out but how do you know this stuff?

[86k10]

We don't have any inspections here that I'm aware of but I can't help but wonder why we as Americans put up with this bulls**t. Our government is getting way out of control, and it's to bad the average citizen doesn't give a damn either. The 2 biggest that we as Americans need to do away with are EPA and OSHA. Do they ask us as voters if we want any of there regulations, I think not, I think it's really sad what this country has turned into, but then it will not be long and it will be all over, I'm sure some of you will understand what I mean by that.

[CHEVIBUBBA]

Originally Posted by 86k10

We don't have any inspections here that I'm aware of but I can't help but wonder why we as Americans put up with this bulls**t. Our government is getting way out of control,

if you will read our friendly constitution you'll see the fed. gov. has been WAY out of control for decades!
the constitution spells out specific things government can do.anything not specifically written is forbidden by US. the people!you know; the ones that wrote the damned thing in the first place.
we need to put OUR government as a whole in prison for violating the constitution & put some honest, principled folks in there!

Originally Posted by 86k10

and it's to bad the average citizen doesn't give a damn either.

amen!but wait;you.me.thats two! anyone else?
i can speak for at least a dozen that are fed up & would take action if they felt they weren't alone.
it's up to us!if we expect it to change, we have to change it!

Originally Posted by 86k10

I think it's really sad what this country has turned into,

it got this way because WE let it!

Originally Posted by 86k10

but then it will not be long and it will be all over, I'm sure some of you will understand what I mean by that.

can we afford to wait?
will you let our once great country degrade further into a socialist regime?

[pritch]

There are only 4 counties in Utah that test for emmissions, Salt Lake, Utah, Weber and Davis, the four most densly populated Wasatch Front counties. I may have heard Washington County, in Southern Utah is testing now and Summit County, where I live, is considering it. I'm sure that the Utaliban will soon decree that we all must be tested, they will hate to miss out on the money they could charge for it. I know many people who simply get an address in a non-testing county and register their vehicles there. there are a few hoops to jump through, like having a utility bill or something. Tell ya what-come pay my power bill for a couple months and I'll let you use my address LOL.

Just be glad that, while we all still have to pass safety inspection (another tip-make friends fast with someone who does S/I, then they won't even really look at things) at least we don't have to display the little insp. sticker on our windshields. Not having one was the first thing the cops used to look for. We also used to have to have a GVW sticker on our trucks, really ugly-that said U-6000 for a 1/2 ton or U-9000 for a 3/4 ton and so on. That was the second thing the cops would pull us over for.

Oh Yeah-one more thing-welcome to Utah! It's really not such a bad place once you get out of the city. I say that because if your being I/M ed, you live in the city.

[R@nger]

I live in Ogden, Utah and I'm getting ready(hopefully by summer) to have my truck registered and on the road.

Is there any site I can check out whats required by Utah emissions?

I guy my dad works with said he got a P.O. box in brigham(I think it was brigham) and they didn't do emissions. Not sure how much a p.o. box up there costs but I might have to check into it.

[Russell]

So, why is it that my 80 3/4 ton does not have cats on it? It had the factory exhaust setup on it (I asked my grandfather if he ever changed it, which he hadn't) when I bought it....

I do have the HD GVW 3/4 ton, is that what made the difference?

[rusted75 half ton]

Originally Posted by Russell

So, why is it that my 80 3/4 ton does not have cats on it? It had the factory exhaust setup on it (I asked my grandfather if he ever changed it, which he hadn't) when I bought it....

I do have the HD GVW 3/4 ton, is that what made the difference?

I wonder if Canadian laws are different,growing up in Manitoba I never heard of emmision laws,mostly lived in rural areas though where half the traffic was combines and old grain trucks,they did start to have safties.It might have changed after I moved.In colorado if your vehicle is over a certain age you can get collector plates(good for five years)and only required to pass a once liftime emisssion test.Of course thats only as long as you own the vehicle.I still think emissions is

[pritch]

The company truck I drive is a F@RD F250, a '99 super duty. I've driven it since it was new. So I don't know if it's new vehicles up to so old or 3/4 ton and bigger trucks in general, but it's registered in one of Utah's testing counties and it is only required to be emmission tested every other year, and saftey inspected on the other years. Maybe 'cause it's a fleet vehicle. I'm just glad my county don't test.


P.S. Can I still refer to Utah state govt. collectivly as 'The Utaliban'?

[Tim240Z]

I had a long conversation with a Technical Advisor at the California Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) regarding some of the finer points of engine swaps. This is what I came up with:

Vehicle family Rule:
Engine must come from a vehicle from the same family, ie. light duty to light duty, medium and heavy duty to same. What surprised me was the family range. Everything from a mini to a 1 ton truck is considered light duty, and engines can be interchanged. Everything greater than 1 ton pickup is considered med/heavy duty and thus cannot be used as a donor into a car.

Catalytic Converters:
CATs are not required to be installed on vehicles that did not come with them installed from the factory.
Kicker: OBDII donor vehicles have post CAT O2 sensors. These may not be disabled in any way. Without the CATs, the PCM will throw a code, thus creating an issue with the conversion. So, although the CATs themselves are not required, if the Donor vehicle is OBDII, then by proxy, they are required.

Misc. Emissions controls:
EVERY piece of emissions package is required from the donor vehicle. That would include fuel tank (to include fuel pressure sensor), evaporative canister and all lines from and to the tank.

Referee inspection:
Pre-75 vehicles (vehicles not requiring smog tests) do not have to be referee certified. However, CHP (or any law enforcement officer, I suppose) can write you an emissions citation, which would need a visit to the referee to sign off to cancel the citation (fixit ticket). Apparently, the State is actively looking at modified vehicles for emissions violations (roadside checkpoints as I mentioned previously)

Well...that should answer about everything.......

[Dano69c10]

Originally Posted by Tim240Z

Vehicle family Rule:
Engine must come from a vehicle from the same family, ie. light duty to light duty, medium and heavy duty to same. What surprised me was the family range. Everything from a mini to a 1 ton truck is considered light duty, and engines can be interchanged. Everything greater than 1 ton pickup is considered med/heavy duty and thus cannot be used as a donor into a car.

Two questions
1) How would they know if a 350 is from a truck or from a car? (two different families)

2) Can I throw a 454 from my 90 dually into my 90 S-10 as long as I keep the driveline and components intact?

Tim the legislature doesn't want us to implant newer engines in our classics because they want all classics removed from the roads. I still haven't figured out what they have against old classic vehicles. It must make our state look backward or something like that, or its like the confederate flag (it reminds them of the bad old days).
Dano