Register or Log In To remove these advertisements. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
12-13-2008, 04:46 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
About a year go I bought two trucks. One is a 72 GMC Super Custom 3/4 ton 4x4, unmolested, no motor or trans, but transfer case is still there. The other is a 71 LWB 1/2 ton 4x4 with a recently rebuilt engine and trans. I pulled the parts I wanted to keep and now have the parts I don't need as well as the chassis for sale on the parts forum. The plan is to take any good parts and use them on my two other trucks and sell the rest. I got the engine trans out of the 1/2 ton and since there was only one bolt (!) holding the transfer case to the cross member and the bolts holding the front drive shaft to the transfer case were barely tight (!), I dropped the transfer case out. I was planning on cleaning, painting (engine) and re gasketing the engine engine and trans and bolting them into the 3/4 ton 4x4. HOWEVER, I noticed that the adapter between the transfer case to engine is different on the 1/2 ton than the one on the 3/4 ton. I think that the transfer from the 1/2 ton is not original, because it did not look like it fit the cross member right (hence the one bolt holding it in). The transfer case adapter from the 1/2 ton has six bolts. The transfer case adapter from the 13/4 ton only has four bolts. I took a picture of the 1/2 ton case out of the truck to illustrate. I only took a picture of the front of the transfer case from the 3/4 ton, as it is still in the truck. I assume the 1/2 ton has a TH350, but never verified it by looking at the pan. Is the 3/4 ton adpater for a TH400? Just out of curiosity, I measured the distance between the bolt holes on the 3/4 ton transfer case. If I remember correctly, it was uniformly 4" center to center from one to the other. I also happen to have a recently rebuilt 2wd 700r4 from an 82 Suburban. The tail housing bolt pattern appears to be the same 4" as the 3/4 ton 4x4 adapter. Can this 700r4 be used with the 4 bolt 3/4 ton transfer case by simply removing the 2wd tail shaft, or even having a tranny shop swap the 2wd output shaft for a 4x4 output shaft. If so, is the shaft I need the factory 4x4 700r4 shaft, or is it a hybrid part from the aftermarket? Are both these cases NP205? (the one in the 3/4 ton looks like it belongsand has not been rigged like the one in the 1/2 ton. Sorry for being so long winded. I try to explain everything well the first time out.
|
12-13-2008, 11:17 PM | #2 |
Aluminum slot wheels rule...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 6,211
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
I believe the one with 4-bolts is a newer NP205....but don't quote me on that.
|
12-13-2008, 11:20 PM | #3 |
high-Tech Red Neck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Livingston, MT/On my boat WA/BC/AK
Posts: 2,294
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
IT is a newer model NP205, count the splines on the input, 23 would have been hooked to a TH350, and a 32 would be a TH400
__________________
"He used to be a pretty nice feller, now he's a welder!" |
12-13-2008, 11:24 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
About a year go I bought two trucks. One is a 72 GMC Super Custom 3/4 ton 4x4, unmolested, no motor or trans, but transfer case and drive shafts are still there. The other is a 71 LWB 1/2 ton 4x4 with a recently rebuilt engine and trans. I pulled the parts I wanted to keep and now have the parts I don't need as well as the chassis for sale on the 67-72 truck parts forum. The plan is to take any good parts and use them on my two other trucks and sell the rest. I got the engine trans out of the 1/2 ton and since there was only one bolt (!) holding the transfer case to the cross member and the bolts holding the front drive shaft to the transfer case were barely tight (!), I dropped the transfer case out. I was planning on cleaning, painting (engine) and re gasketing the engine and trans and bolting them into the 3/4 ton 4x4. HOWEVER, I noticed that the adapter between the transfer case to trans is different on the 1/2 ton than the one on the 3/4 ton. I think that the transfer from the 1/2 ton is not original, because it did not look like it fit the cross member right (hence the one bolt holding it in). The transfer case to trans adapter from the 1/2 ton has six bolts. The transfer case to trans adapter from the 3/4 ton only has four bolts. I took a picture of the 1/2 ton case out of the truck to illustrate. I only took a picture of the front of the transfer case from the 3/4 ton, as it is still in the truck. I assume the 1/2 ton has a TH350, but never verified it by looking at the pan. Is the 3/4 ton adpater for a TH400? Just out of curiosity, I measured the distance between the bolt holes on the 3/4 ton transfer case. If I remember correctly, it was uniformly 4" center to center from one to the other. I also happen to have a recently rebuilt 2wd 700r4 from an 82 Suburban. The tail housing bolt pattern appears to be the same 4" as the 3/4 ton 4x4 adapter. Can this 700r4 be used with the 4 bolt 3/4 ton transfer case by simply removing the 2wd tail shaft, or even having a tranny shop swap the 2wd output shaft for a 4x4 output shaft. If so, is the shaft I need the factory 4x4 700r4 shaft, or is it a hybrid part from the aftermarket? Are both these cases NP205? (the one in the 3/4 ton looks like it belongs and has not been rigged like the one in the 1/2 ton. Sorry for being so long winded. I try to explain everything well the first time out.
|
12-13-2008, 11:35 PM | #5 |
Well, Whoop-dee-do!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Easton, Mo. pop.- me & scarcely a few others
Posts: 2,302
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Both are 205's. The six bolt is off a TH400, appx. 1979- 1984. The 4 bolt is off a TH350, I think it takes a custom shaft in a 700R4 to bolt to it, or possibly a stock shaft and a housing spacer. Maybe just a certain stock shaft cut down a bit- I'm not an expert on this... maybe someone else will chime in that is.
__________________
'68 GMC shortbox 4x4 350/SM465/T221- bought it in '83 SOLD '72 K20 500 Cad/TH400/NP205 SOLD '92 Chevy 2500 6.5 mech TD 4L80E crusty daily driver '72 Monte Carlo... sweet low mile toy '11 Dodge Challenger IE 392 6spd... midlife car |
12-13-2008, 11:42 PM | #6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 540
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
700R4 bolts to the 350 adapter but you do need a new output shaft for the 700R4 to make the setup work.
Advanceadapters.com has what is needed. |
12-15-2008, 02:13 AM | #7 |
Chevys Kick A$$
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zootown, MT
Posts: 12,699
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Sweet yea they both look like NP205s to me. Good strong T-Cases!
__________________
*HOODS is what I answer too* -'79, '77, '88 Pickup Sold, '85 Camaro, '83 T/A, '81,'83,'90 K5 Blazer All Sold -'79 3/4 ton "Big Yellow Bananna" Lifted 4spd. 39.5 TSL Swampers, The money Pit -'86 K5 Blazer Silverado 6.2 4" lift 35"s -'95 Ext. Cab Shorty 4" Tuff Country rolling 35" M/T's -'83 Monte Carlo T-Tops. 126,500 Original Miles -LATER I would rather push a Chevy then drive a ford!!
|
12-13-2008, 11:30 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
I want to be sure I understand. The t-case that is loose does not look like it came in the truck from the factory, judging by the shoddy install. I am assuming that I could change the adapter plates and install the 350/ 350 engine and trans, except for the fact that the spline count is different (?), or does this change as well when the adapter is swapped? as for the fact that the t-case adapter in the 3/4 ton appears to have the same 4 bolt pattern as the 700r4 rear housing, can I do some parts swapping and install the overdrive trans? I have fooled with 71 and 72 trucks for years, but this is my 1st 4x4. Thanks for any input.
|
12-14-2008, 04:01 AM | #9 |
Currently Blazerless
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: St. Joseph Mo.
Posts: 4,829
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Top 6 bolt transfer case is for a TH-400 and will bolt up to any 2 wheel drive version of the 400 by simply removing the transmissions tailhousing.
__________________
1972 C/30 133" W.B. C&C 1970 GMC 3500 157" W.B. single wheel C&C |
12-14-2008, 04:12 AM | #10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Rubber City
Posts: 5,498
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
It is also out of an '80s truck because it has a slip yoke rear output. If you run it, I'd swap a fixed rear output off of another 205.
__________________
1969 GMC K2500 1996 Honda Accord 2007 Kawasaki KLR 650 |
12-14-2008, 11:36 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Ok so far the consensus is the t case that is loose must me for a TH400. I will double check that the transmission I have is a TH400. I was not planning on running this t case ( the one that is loose on the ground) as it did not seem to fit the cross member correctly. Could this be because of the lift, though? I forgot to look at the rear drive shaft t case mounting flange in the 3/4 ton, but I remember it having a slip yoke like the front. Someone did a pretty crude welding job building a rear drive shaft for the 1/2 ton. This was probably all done together with the lift and body swap. It looks like they took the front 90" of the newer drive shaft with the slip yoke and welded it to the rear 6" or so of the original shaft in order for it to mate to the rear axle. I guess at least this way it is long enough and wouldn't fall out as easily as a stock length shaft. I was planning on running the case that is still in the 3/4 ton, due to the fact that the whole truck does not look as if it has been monkeyed with like the 1/2 ton. The t case in the 3/4 ton has four bolts. I understand that the 71-72 4x4 trucks originally only used a TH350, correct? Both of these cases are NP205's? I assume when they did the body swap on the 1/2 ton, they also swapped a TH400 and t case out of a newer truck (?) can I simply swap the t case to tranny adapter from the case that was in the 71 to the case that is in the 3/4 ton? Any ideas as for the fact that the t-case adapter in the 3/4 ton appears to have the same 4 bolt pattern as the 700r4 rear housing, can I do some parts swapping and install the overdrive trans? From what I can tell, there is no real difference in the 1/2 and 3/4 ton, other than the full floating rear axle, wider springs all around and larger knuckles on the Dana 44 in front (?)
Last edited by WIDESIDE72; 12-14-2008 at 11:39 AM. |
12-14-2008, 12:37 PM | #12 |
high-Tech Red Neck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Livingston, MT/On my boat WA/BC/AK
Posts: 2,294
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
I tell you what, I am in corpus Christi, If you need a new cross member built for your T-case I could hook you up. I would trade you for the other T-case.
IF you go about it yourself, there is a wealth of info on the subject on my build, you can find it through the link in my siggy.
__________________
"He used to be a pretty nice feller, now he's a welder!" |
12-14-2008, 01:27 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Quote:
|
|
12-14-2008, 01:30 PM | #14 |
high-Tech Red Neck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Livingston, MT/On my boat WA/BC/AK
Posts: 2,294
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Not a problem, good luck with the build, and be sure to post pics!
__________________
"He used to be a pretty nice feller, now he's a welder!" |
12-14-2008, 03:22 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
After doing some research, I think I am going to fore go trying to put the 700r4 in the 3/4 ton, and just use the TH400. BUT... it looks like the NP205 t cases for a TH400, TH350 and SM465 have different input shaft spline counts... SO... I believe I will need to use the t case out of the 1/2 ton donor truck in the 3/4 ton (?) can I change the output from the slip yoke that is on the donor truck t case to the fixed yoke that is on the t case in the 3/4 ton now?
|
12-14-2008, 05:44 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
OK... It looks like the rear outputs can be swapped from t case to t case, although there are roller bearings in the one I took off the case that is out (with the slip yoke output for the rear). Luckily I did not lose any, and used some grease to hold them in place to put the rear housing back on to keep it all clean until I figure out to proceed.
|
12-14-2008, 10:40 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,364
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Late 205 with fixed yoke for TH400. Hard to find item
__________________
Mike Redpath |
12-14-2008, 10:53 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Do you mean fixed FRONT yoke? Because the rear yoke is a slip yoke.
I counted the input splines on the t case that is out of the truck and there are 31, I also double checked the trans and it is a TH400. I am guessing I can take the t case out of the 3/4 ton 4x4 and put the th400 and matching t case in its place fairly easily (?) I would also want to swap the slip rear yoke off the t case and install the fixed flange rear yoke so that I can run the stock drive shaft that is under the 3/4 ton now. |
12-15-2008, 03:11 AM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,364
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
Quote:
__________________
Mike Redpath |
|
12-15-2008, 04:29 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cedar Park, Texas
Posts: 7,500
|
Re: 4x4 experts; transfer case I.D. help
That brings me to the next issue. I have several options in getting the 3/4 ton 4x4 going:
1. Rebuild the TH400 trans and install it and the later NP205 transfer case that is out of the 1/2 ton 4x4 donor and move the transfer case cross member. When I pulled the 350 engine and TH400 out of the 1/2 ton, I noticed that the engine was WAY back against the firewall, so much that I could not pull the original points distributor out before pulling the engine. No way an HEI (which I planned to run instead of points) is going to fit. Instead of moving the transfer case crossmember in the 3/4 ton from the original TH350 location further back for the longer TH400, could I leave (so I would not have to mess with the driveshafts) and move the engine forward? 2 Find a TH350 core to rebuild so that I can drop everything in w/out having to move stuff and cut drive shafts. Does it need to be a 4x4 Th350 or is it the same as a 2wd TH350 3. Buy a 4x4 output shaft for the 700r4 I have and a spacer form A& Red's transmission. (I would have to have the trans torn down to install it, but the trans only has around 10k miles on it at the most. Would I have to move the Tcase andcut the shafts? I was thinking not,as the TH350 and 700r4 are the same length, aren't they? I do not want to use the advance adpaters kit, as everywhere I look mentions interference with the trans pan and front driveshaft. |
Bookmarks |
|
|