Too much lift!!!???

[ericpost]

So I mounted my DIY Shackle flip kit with 6" shackles. This was suppose to net 4".

I mounted the shackle brackets on the opposite sides so I can run 56" springs, this should have cut 2" off the lift from what I'm told.

Then I installed a pair of 56" Tuff Country EZ-rides with 4" of lift.

So the simple math is:
The DIY kit mounted on opposite sides should have netted 2" Plus the 4" spring lift is a total lift of 6".

I think I got a whole lot more than 6"! If I measure from axle center to the top of the wheelwell with the spings compressed I get 34"... I think this is too much. I did a quick check on the front hub to wheelwell measurement and found it to be 26" and that is with a 2" lift... IF the front and rear wheelwell openings are the same that means I have a 10" lift in the rear which is WAY TOO MUCH! Now I know the front and rear are typically not the same but they are also not that much different AND if you just look at the truck you can tell this is too much lift.

Anyone got some Axle to wheelwell measurements or ideas where I went wrong?


FYI:
I just checked DIY's site and it appears that I might have recieved the wrong shackle length. I think I should have got the 4.5" shackles but that would only reduce the total height by .75".

[desertrat]

What do you have between the rear axle tube and the bottom of the frame?
Stock is somewhere around 10.5" (give or take)

Since you are doing "custom" work it is hard to tell exactly what is going on without pictures (at least for me)
Is there anyway that you can post pictures?

[ericpost]

Fron the top of the axle to the bump stop I have 16". To the frame there is alot more like 24" due to the arch in the frame.

Pic's are before I lifted the axle to the spring and compressed it, I only got 2"-3" of compression. I'll upload more after I get some lunch.

[ericpost]

Another pic with the axle in and spring compressed.

[desertrat]

For some reason I thought you where lifting a square body pickup.
I went out and measured my '71 Blazer with 4" lift and I have 14" from axle tube to the frame.
From those pictures it looks like you have alot of lift

If my math is correct you should have a total of 11 inches of lift with everything you have there.
I don't know what the flip kit is suppose to give you but I was always under the impression
that with stock shackles it gives you 4" of lift. so if you have 4" springs, shackle flip kit (4" lift) and 6" shackles (3" lift) Total of 11".

After I eat I will go out and measure everything and give you a referance point to measure off of.

[desertrat]

Ok I did some measuring.

From the top of the frame to the rear spring eye is something like 7/8"

Youre's looks to be over 12" (over 6" of lift)

If you draw a straight line from the rear center eye on the spring to the front eye on the spring and than measure from that imaginary line down to the bottom of the spring you should be somewhere close to 10" for a 4" lift spring. (I hope that made sence)

[ericpost]

Originally Posted by desertrat

Ok I did some measuring.

From the top of the frame to the rear spring eye is something like 7/8"

Youre's looks to be over 12" (over 6" of lift)

If you draw a straight line from the rear center eye on the spring to the front eye on the spring and than measure from that imaginary line down to the bottom of the spring you should be somewhere close to 10" for a 4" lift spring. (I hope that made sence)

Just measured the spring, Eye to eye to the bottom of the spring is 12" which from what you are saying makes these 6" lift springs..... I just double checked the part number for Tuff Country and they are for sure 56" with a 4" lift.....

The shackle flip just looks to dam big too, I don't think the 4.5" shackles are going to make that big of a diff.

I know the springs will settle a bit but geezzzz!

[Prerunner1982]

I have been thinking about this for somet time.. and may or may not have come up with the problem. When figuring the lift did you take into account the original location of the shackle where it connects to the leaf. See attachment. If it doesnt make sense or my logic is not correct let me know.

Take the distance from the middle of the mounting bolt of the shackle in its original location to the shackle in it's new location and add that to the 4" lift springs.
I know that shackles (both new and old) lift 1/2 of thier length, so maybe take half the shackle length, plus distange between new shackle mounting point, plus 4" lift leaf.

Say the original shackle is 5" long
new shackle is 6" long
The new shackle mounting position is 4" lower than stock
and you have 4" leaf springs.

2.50"+3.00"+4"+4"=13.50"

If the new shackle mounting position is only 2.5" lower then it would look like this.
2.50"+3.00"+2.50"+4"=12.00

Either one looks to be about how much lift you have now..

I would get stock height leaf springs to get down to the lift you want.

[desertrat]

Seems I have fuzzy math, a 6" shackle will only add 1" over a stock fliped shackle since stock is 4"

I took this picture for you.

[Prerunner1982]

Desert rat if the stock braket was used and the shackle routed down through it then the 6" shackle would go 6" down from the lower mount in your picture, and if where the shackle mounts is lower than stock, it gives it more lift as well.

[Prerunner1982]

Now that I think about it a bit more, my math isnt all right. The shackle part only changes 1 end of the suspension, the front remains unchanges (Except for the 4" lift leaf springs). With the axle mounted in the middle of the leaf the total lift at the shackle end should be reduced as the "lift" is only at one end and not right in the middle.

I still think you should try it with stock height leaf springs and see where that gets you.

[desertrat]

I also just noticed that you flipped youre springs around.
I can't see that changing the ride height but it might change youre measurment to youre frame
since the frame starts droping down toward the back and with the springs reversed youre axle is shifted back some.
Again I have 14" between frame and axle with 4" lift.

[ericpost]

Originally Posted by desertrat

I also just noticed that you flipped youre springs around.
I can't see that changing the ride height but it might change youre measurment to youre frame
since the frame starts droping down toward the back and with the springs reversed youre axle is shifted back some.
Again I have 14" between frame and axle with 4" lift.

Good Point.
The spring is 4" shorter to the rear which magnafies the shackle length increase a bit.

So you have 14" from the top of the axle tube to the frame... Is that straight up to the frame and is the frame at it's highest point there? If I go straght up I get 20.75" and the frame is not at the highest point

Given your measurements with a 4" lift it looks like I have a 10.75" lift...

So If I use a 4.5" shackle (-.75") and a stock spring (-4") I should get the 6" I'm looking for.... I think I'll have another beer and think that thru a bit more.

Thanks for the help.

Anyone else have a few measurements?

[drbyrdman]

that setup should give you a 8" lift. you might need a longer drive shaft now.

[Prerunner1982]

I have been looking at the ORD 4" shackle flip. I realize its from a different company, but should be similar. The ORD 4" flip appears to have the shackle mount in approx the same position as stock execpt with the shackle going down. They say with stock springs you get 4" of lift and with a 4" lift spring you get 8" of lift.

Here is stock:


Here is thier 4" lift shackle..


If the dimensions of the DIY shackle flip look similiar to the ORD shackle flip then the flip alone netted 4" of lift.

[ericpost]

I held the old mount up to the new mount and found about 2" difference with the new mount extending down lower.

The math above seems correct but both ORD and DIY say you net 4" from the flip while the math above shows more. I have a question into DIY about how to do the math.

The springs will settle but I don't think it will be more than an inch.

If you go by the manufactures lift the total lift should be 8.75 (6 inch shackles not 4.5") but as grendel pointed out the flipping the mounts appears to lose 2" from total lift which is how I arrived at the purchases I made...

[Senator350]

i can easily see this:

DIY + longer shackle got you around 5" I've always seen 6" as more normal for shackle flips

those lift springs got you another 4" AND they are unsettled. I had tuff country 6" springs and they settled a LOT.



I'm not dead sure why swapping sides would subtract 2"...

but I can easily see 9-10" of lift before the springs settle, and 8" when settled.
I think too much math is happening if the DIY kit told you 4", and the springs said 4", and you went with a longer shackle....

[ericpost]

YEP, DIY says 5".

Think I'll try some stock springs and a 1" block from DIY.

[FormerMember]

...

[ericpost]

Since I have a few days I was thinking of pulling out the helper spring and drilling the shackle to 4.5" to see how that worked out. You said you use 4", the only ones I see are 4.5"?

What is all the weight? I could drop 500-800 LBS in it pretty quickly. As far as a ride goes how long does it take for new springs to settle? If it's pretty quick I could have a few neighborhood kids stop in and play rock band in the back for 2-3 hours......

[ericpost]

I thought the shackle angle was pretty good... just slightly kicked back? If I flip the mounts back wouldn't it push the shackles way back since I'm using the 56" spring?

[ericpost]

Hey Grendel, PM me your number and I'll give you a call. If your around tonight I can swing by..

[ericpost]

Originally Posted by ericpost

Hey Grendel, PM me your number and I'll give you a call. If your around tonight I can swing by..

FYI: Post #4 shows a picture of the shackle angle with the spring compressed. Probably not 10 degrees but once the springs settle a bit and the helper is removed and the Shackle is 4".....

[FormerMember]

...

[ericpost]

So I spoke with Grendel a bit on the phone and I think the solution is pretty easy....

As each of you have noted the springs will settle in time, Most agree that 2" is the norm with a potential of an additional 1" over time. I was going to replace the 6" shackle with a 4-4.5" shackle but I think I'll see what I get for settleing before I do that.

I removed the Helper spring and the 5th spring, this lowered the truck by 1.5" just in spring height alone. There was also about another .5-1" loss as well due to some additional flex in the springs. Looks like the shackle angle is about right as well.

The result is the truck is going to be low enough to fit out of the barn which is step one. You can also see that the truck while still a bit high should settle in pretty well. Also note that using the long end of the spring means I only need to trim the back side of the wheelwell not the front, very cool suggestion Grendel! So after I put the tank back in and re-working the bump stop I'll start on the front...

Oh and I do plan on putting up a build page but since I'm pretty slow I thought I'd get alot done and do it in retrospect.