Ram jet or ZZ4 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Low68 · 12-15-2002, 11:13 PM

I am going to get a crate motor tomorrow and and trying to find what would be what I want. Has anyone used either of these engines? Are they fast? I like the idea of the fuel injection, but am not sure. How reliable are they? I need info QUICK. Like I said I am going out tommorrow and will probably get one of some kind. Thanks for the help.
Low68

**BIG ORANGE** · 12-15-2002, 11:41 PM

I'm in the same bolt your in,I dont know anything about the fuelinjection engines so I'll probally be buying the ZZ4 even though I got a friend on this board that says I should go with the ramjet. I can get the ZZ4 for 3600 were the ramjet is gonna cost me 4600.

crazy longhorn · 12-15-2002, 11:51 PM

You might also look at the fastburn 385......an upgrade on the cam, & you are at ZZ 430 specs.

**PICKMUP** · 12-15-2002, 11:53 PM

Here's what the RamJet looks like in one of my customer's trucks. He just got it done, so not sure what he thinks of it yet. Looks cool with all Zoops pulleys, etc.

Low68 · 12-16-2002, 12:13 AM

From what I have read all that you have to do it supply power and the fuel line and it will be ready to run. It sounds to me like it is already tuned? I could be wrong. I don't know anything about the computers either, but I like the idea of the better starts and better gas mileage. Any other input?
Thanks
Low68

chris 71K5 · 12-16-2002, 12:20 AM

I would just get the ZZ4 and add EFI to it yourself. The ramjet is a lot of money, and it doesnt even monitor and adjust air/fuel mix (no O2 sensor). Speed density (90-92 camaros, firebirds or corvettes) is pretty much the same work to install, only you have to hook up a few power wires. It is also a fraction of the cost of a ramjet and you can get any part at your local parts house. I converted my 71 K5 from carb to TPI using all factory parts from a 91 Camaro. The wiring was very easy (factory harness and ECM) and I used a 31 gallon 87 K5 Blazer tank with a stock camaro fuel pump. If you have any questions, just ask

SCOTI · 12-16-2002, 04:15 AM

The fuel injected crate motors are already dialed in. You just install & hook up 12volt power + a fuel system that can supply enough psi. for the injectors. They do make an add-on harness so the systems can monitor/adjust fuel/spark according to load & for better efficiency just like factory systems.

694X4 · 12-16-2002, 07:55 AM

I like the look of the ram jet but I don't know anyone that has one. A friend of mine has the zz4 whith a 700r4 4:10 gears and 38" tires and loves his but he said if he did it again he would get the fast burn.

tim m · 12-16-2002, 08:05 AM

I have a ZZ4, it is fine but when I get another one for my other truck I am going to get the fast burn 385.

**1971Stepside** · 12-16-2002, 10:24 AM

why the fast burn over the zz4? Just curious as I want to put the ZZ4 in my truck, but this thread has me thinking......

crazy longhorn · 12-16-2002, 11:27 AM

The fastburn is basically a ZZ4 with better flowing heads. The heads on the ZZ4 leave a bit to be desired,as dyno tests I have seen show that the ZZ4 makes better power with the iron Vortecs than with the alum heads supplied with it! A fastburn with the HOT cam added is ZZ430 specs.......

**1971Stepside** · 12-16-2002, 11:34 AM

So, two questions on the fastburn. I have a GM Performance catalog here and it doesn't state if the Fast Burn comes assembled....does it? Secondly, will GM put the performance cam in for you or do you have to buy that seperatley and install yourself??

I have to admit, after reading the specs on the two motors and looking at a $500 difference in price it looks like the Fast Burn would be a better way to go.....

**1971Stepside** · 12-16-2002, 11:39 AM

Just FYI: here is what the GM Performance catalog says about the fast burn

Part Number 12496769

The new Fast Burn uses the proven ZZ4 shortblock and ads to it the Fast Burn cylinder heads fro 385 value packed horsepower. With value in mind, the Fast Burn uses stamped rocker arms and the same ZZ4 camshaft that powers thousands of hot rods. The Fast Burn is an excellent choice for the basis of custom engine. Its strong crankshaft and forged powdered metal connecting rods have been proven to 500 horsepower. And its Fast Burn cylinder heads are hungry for a little more camshaft, approximately 425 horsepower at 6000 rpm is achievable by adding the HOT cam and 1.6 self aligning rocker arms.

jmil1974 · 12-16-2002, 01:35 PM

Depends on what you want. The 350HP/400ftlb Ramjet is nothing to sneeze at. It's actually quite stout and the same as the ZZ4. If you want reliability and some gas mileage/ big drivability bonus, go that way. It will be harder to upgrade the power down the road but you can now do it. You'll also have to modify your fuel system. Not a huge deal but you do need to plan on it.

If pure power is your motive, I would get the HT383 and do a cam swap. Similar to the suggestions on the fast burn but I think our trucks would like the extra inches/torque provided by that motor. Either way, you should be quite happy.

As important as reliability is to me now, I'd go with the RamJet. Good luck!

stea · 12-16-2002, 02:01 PM

who has the best prices on the crate motors, looking for one for my 39 chev 1/2 ton.

**1971Stepside** · 12-16-2002, 03:07 PM

Everett Chevrolet in Washington is the best that I have seen. They are selling them at $50 over. I verified with my local dealer. I don't know what they get to ship one though...that may be the rub.

badass67 · 12-16-2002, 07:34 PM

I installed zz4 crate engine in my 67, I added the carb, pump, etc and it has lots of power, but as time goes by I wish I had
gone for an efi engine. I would buy the new GM crate engine, or my choice would be a Corvette engine with all the gadgets and install it using the painless wiring kit.
That is what I will do next time.

John

68 with 350 TPI · 12-16-2002, 07:58 PM

EFI is where its at for throttle responce and easy starting.
It is also a bit more easy to get good low end torque with EFI given the proper parts.

You could get a TPI unit and do a EFI yourself or just get the ram jet and be done.

Given the choice I would go for the ram jet.

Keep in mind that you will need to run a return line back to the tank and use either a inline pump for EFI ( about 100$) or put a pump in the tank.
Thats pretty easy if you can get a tank out of a newer vehicle and put it between the frame rails.

The inline pump can be got for about 100 at
http://www.jimsperformance.com/carti.html

Sierra · 12-16-2002, 08:35 PM

I bought the ZZ4 engine, but had the dealer (Scoggin-Dickey) install the HOT cam package and an RPM Air Gap intake. The combo ran okay, but I felt it had more potential, so I installed a pair of AFR 195 heads. That really helped the HP, and I'm quite satisfied with the performance, but my total cash outlay is way up there.
If you want everyday driveability and the GM logo, my choice would be a partial ZZ4 engine, then add the heads, intake, etc. of your choice. The L98 heads that come on the ZZ4 flow very poorly and are shoddy castings. If you really want to spruce it up a bit, while gaining dependability (which is my own plan) I would spring for a turnkey engine package from a reputable builder, such as Beck Racing or American Speed.

crazy longhorn · 12-16-2002, 09:15 PM

American Speed is about 5 or 6 mi from me.....they have machined several of my engines (before the mail order deal). they arent cheap, but you get what you pay for!

Low68 · 12-17-2002, 10:52 AM

thanks for all the great info and the opinions. I ended up going with a ramjet. I was interested in the other engines you guys mentioned, but no where around here had them in stock and I have to have it put in by friday. I like the Ramjet so far. It looks like it will be a pretty simple install. I am not looking forward to doing the fuel line, but the again, I didn't like doing fuel line for my old engine anyways. Thanks again for the help. I will let you guys know how it goes later and post some pictures. Thanks
Low68

**PICKMUP** · 12-17-2002, 04:17 PM

I have a new "Low Rider" alum tank with pump and baffles built in, built just for our trucks. Costs a little bit, but good clearance on low trucks, looks great and easy/dependable hookup.

**1971Stepside** · 12-17-2002, 04:29 PM

pickmup...will this tank work with non EFI? Do you have pics and measurements. I have been looking for a tank like this and the closest I have found is the aluminum one that Classic Perf offers. My frame rails are only 27 1/2" and their tank is 27 3/4".......would love to see your tank.

**PICKMUP** · 12-17-2002, 04:56 PM

71Stepside: you are exactly right, our frames are 27.5". I have these tanks made 27.25". Here is a pic. email me for more details. Thanks.

**1971Stepside** · 12-17-2002, 05:37 PM

email and pm sent!!

12-15-2002, 11:13 PM	#1
Low68 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Arizona Posts: 758	Ram jet or ZZ4 I am going to get a crate motor tomorrow and and trying to find what would be what I want. Has anyone used either of these engines? Are they fast? I like the idea of the fuel injection, but am not sure. How reliable are they? I need info QUICK. Like I said I am going out tommorrow and will probably get one of some kind. Thanks for the help. Low68 __________________ Build Thread

12-15-2002, 11:41 PM	#2
BIG ORANGE Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lancaster S.C. Posts: 4,767	I'm in the same bolt your in,I dont know anything about the fuelinjection engines so I'll probally be buying the ZZ4 even though I got a friend on this board that says I should go with the ramjet. I can get the ZZ4 for 3600 were the ramjet is gonna cost me 4600. __________________ Things happen for a reason!

12-15-2002, 11:51 PM	#3
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,402	You might also look at the fastburn 385......an upgrade on the cam, & you are at ZZ 430 specs. __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

12-15-2002, 11:53 PM	#4
PICKMUP "Trucks with Class" Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: OLYMPIA, WA, USA Posts: 8,166	RamJet Here's what the RamJet looks like in one of my customer's trucks. He just got it done, so not sure what he thinks of it yet. Looks cool with all Zoops pulleys, etc. Attached Images __________________ Email: frankeham@comcast.net Phone: 360-956-7170

12-16-2002, 12:13 AM	#5
Low68 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Arizona Posts: 758	From what I have read all that you have to do it supply power and the fuel line and it will be ready to run. It sounds to me like it is already tuned? I could be wrong. I don't know anything about the computers either, but I like the idea of the better starts and better gas mileage. Any other input? Thanks Low68 __________________ Build Thread

12-16-2002, 12:20 AM	#6
chris 71K5 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Dumont NJ Posts: 31	I would just get the ZZ4 and add EFI to it yourself. The ramjet is a lot of money, and it doesnt even monitor and adjust air/fuel mix (no O2 sensor). Speed density (90-92 camaros, firebirds or corvettes) is pretty much the same work to install, only you have to hook up a few power wires. It is also a fraction of the cost of a ramjet and you can get any part at your local parts house. I converted my 71 K5 from carb to TPI using all factory parts from a 91 Camaro. The wiring was very easy (factory harness and ECM) and I used a 31 gallon 87 K5 Blazer tank with a stock camaro fuel pump. If you have any questions, just ask __________________ 71 K5 w/ mods Click Here

12-16-2002, 04:15 AM	#7
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 22,098	The fuel injected crate motors are already dialed in. You just install & hook up 12volt power + a fuel system that can supply enough psi. for the injectors. They do make an add-on harness so the systems can monitor/adjust fuel/spark according to load & for better efficiency just like factory systems. __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

12-16-2002, 07:55 AM	#8
694X4 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: utica, oh, Posts: 249	I like the look of the ram jet but I don't know anyone that has one. A friend of mine has the zz4 whith a 700r4 4:10 gears and 38" tires and loves his but he said if he did it again he would get the fast burn. __________________ 69 3/4 ton 4x4 gmc with 6" sky jacker soft ride. 350 / th350 / 205 work in progress

12-16-2002, 08:05 AM	#9
tim m Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gilbert Az Posts: 286	I have a ZZ4, it is fine but when I get another one for my other truck I am going to get the fast burn 385. __________________ 1970 k10 1971 C10 Gilbert Az

12-16-2002, 10:24 AM	#10
1971Stepside Almost Satisfied Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,932	why the fast burn over the zz4? Just curious as I want to put the ZZ4 in my truck, but this thread has me thinking...... __________________ 1971 C10 Stepside. LSx 6.0 with BTR Stage IV, Speed Engineering Headers, 4L80e transmission w/3200 Circle-D Stall. 3.73. Posi. Purchased this truck when I was 17. I started the rebuild (or take apart) in 1993. I have drug it around all over the country in pieces. Finally back on the road in 2021. "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

12-16-2002, 11:27 AM	#11
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,402	The fastburn is basically a ZZ4 with better flowing heads. The heads on the ZZ4 leave a bit to be desired,as dyno tests I have seen show that the ZZ4 makes better power with the iron Vortecs than with the alum heads supplied with it! A fastburn with the HOT cam added is ZZ430 specs....... __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

12-16-2002, 11:34 AM	#12
1971Stepside Almost Satisfied Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,932	So, two questions on the fastburn. I have a GM Performance catalog here and it doesn't state if the Fast Burn comes assembled....does it? Secondly, will GM put the performance cam in for you or do you have to buy that seperatley and install yourself?? I have to admit, after reading the specs on the two motors and looking at a $500 difference in price it looks like the Fast Burn would be a better way to go..... __________________ 1971 C10 Stepside. LSx 6.0 with BTR Stage IV, Speed Engineering Headers, 4L80e transmission w/3200 Circle-D Stall. 3.73. Posi. Purchased this truck when I was 17. I started the rebuild (or take apart) in 1993. I have drug it around all over the country in pieces. Finally back on the road in 2021. "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

12-16-2002, 11:39 AM	#13
1971Stepside Almost Satisfied Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,932	Just FYI: here is what the GM Performance catalog says about the fast burn Part Number 12496769 The new Fast Burn uses the proven ZZ4 shortblock and ads to it the Fast Burn cylinder heads fro 385 value packed horsepower. With value in mind, the Fast Burn uses stamped rocker arms and the same ZZ4 camshaft that powers thousands of hot rods. The Fast Burn is an excellent choice for the basis of custom engine. Its strong crankshaft and forged powdered metal connecting rods have been proven to 500 horsepower. And its Fast Burn cylinder heads are hungry for a little more camshaft, approximately 425 horsepower at 6000 rpm is achievable by adding the HOT cam and 1.6 self aligning rocker arms. __________________ 1971 C10 Stepside. LSx 6.0 with BTR Stage IV, Speed Engineering Headers, 4L80e transmission w/3200 Circle-D Stall. 3.73. Posi. Purchased this truck when I was 17. I started the rebuild (or take apart) in 1993. I have drug it around all over the country in pieces. Finally back on the road in 2021. "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

12-16-2002, 01:35 PM	#14
jmil1974 Ain't we cute? Join Date: May 2002 Location: Friendswood, TX Posts: 700	Depends on what you want. The 350HP/400ftlb Ramjet is nothing to sneeze at. It's actually quite stout and the same as the ZZ4. If you want reliability and some gas mileage/ big drivability bonus, go that way. It will be harder to upgrade the power down the road but you can now do it. You'll also have to modify your fuel system. Not a huge deal but you do need to plan on it. If pure power is your motive, I would get the HT383 and do a cam swap. Similar to the suggestions on the fast burn but I think our trucks would like the extra inches/torque provided by that motor. Either way, you should be quite happy. As important as reliability is to me now, I'd go with the RamJet. Good luck! __________________ 69 C10 2WD LWB Fleet 350/350 power front disc conversion (6 lug disc kit from gmcpauls) and new engine, PS, A/C, fresh fluids, SHE DRIVES! FOR SALE $3900

12-16-2002, 02:01 PM	#15
stea Registered User Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: cedar hills utah USA Posts: 89	who has the best prices on the crate motors, looking for one for my 39 chev 1/2 ton.



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12-16-2002, 03:07 PM	#16
1971Stepside Almost Satisfied Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,932	Everett Chevrolet in Washington is the best that I have seen. They are selling them at $50 over. I verified with my local dealer. I don't know what they get to ship one though...that may be the rub. __________________ 1971 C10 Stepside. LSx 6.0 with BTR Stage IV, Speed Engineering Headers, 4L80e transmission w/3200 Circle-D Stall. 3.73. Posi. Purchased this truck when I was 17. I started the rebuild (or take apart) in 1993. I have drug it around all over the country in pieces. Finally back on the road in 2021. "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

12-16-2002, 07:34 PM	#17
badass67 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: oakland,CA, USA Posts: 32	I installed zz4 crate engine in my 67, I added the carb, pump, etc and it has lots of power, but as time goes by I wish I had gone for an efi engine. I would buy the new GM crate engine, or my choice would be a Corvette engine with all the gadgets and install it using the painless wiring kit. That is what I will do next time. John

12-16-2002, 07:58 PM	#18
68 with 350 TPI Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wingate NC Posts: 456	EFI is where its at for throttle responce and easy starting. It is also a bit more easy to get good low end torque with EFI given the proper parts. You could get a TPI unit and do a EFI yourself or just get the ram jet and be done. Given the choice I would go for the ram jet. Keep in mind that you will need to run a return line back to the tank and use either a inline pump for EFI ( about 100$) or put a pump in the tank. Thats pretty easy if you can get a tank out of a newer vehicle and put it between the frame rails. The inline pump can be got for about 100 at http://www.jimsperformance.com/carti.html __________________ Life is good with a 6-71 supercharged 355 in a 72 camaro

12-16-2002, 08:35 PM	#19
Sierra Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Victoria, Texas Posts: 71	I bought the ZZ4 engine, but had the dealer (Scoggin-Dickey) install the HOT cam package and an RPM Air Gap intake. The combo ran okay, but I felt it had more potential, so I installed a pair of AFR 195 heads. That really helped the HP, and I'm quite satisfied with the performance, but my total cash outlay is way up there. If you want everyday driveability and the GM logo, my choice would be a partial ZZ4 engine, then add the heads, intake, etc. of your choice. The L98 heads that come on the ZZ4 flow very poorly and are shoddy castings. If you really want to spruce it up a bit, while gaining dependability (which is my own plan) I would spring for a turnkey engine package from a reputable builder, such as Beck Racing or American Speed.

12-16-2002, 09:15 PM	#20
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,402	American Speed is about 5 or 6 mi from me.....they have machined several of my engines (before the mail order deal). they arent cheap, but you get what you pay for! __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

12-17-2002, 10:52 AM	#21
Low68 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Arizona Posts: 758	I Got One! thanks for all the great info and the opinions. I ended up going with a ramjet. I was interested in the other engines you guys mentioned, but no where around here had them in stock and I have to have it put in by friday. I like the Ramjet so far. It looks like it will be a pretty simple install. I am not looking forward to doing the fuel line, but the again, I didn't like doing fuel line for my old engine anyways. Thanks again for the help. I will let you guys know how it goes later and post some pictures. Thanks Low68 __________________ Build Thread

12-17-2002, 04:17 PM	#22
PICKMUP "Trucks with Class" Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: OLYMPIA, WA, USA Posts: 8,166	EFI Tank I have a new "Low Rider" alum tank with pump and baffles built in, built just for our trucks. Costs a little bit, but good clearance on low trucks, looks great and easy/dependable hookup. __________________ Email: frankeham@comcast.net Phone: 360-956-7170

12-17-2002, 04:29 PM	#23
1971Stepside Almost Satisfied Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,932	pickmup...will this tank work with non EFI? Do you have pics and measurements. I have been looking for a tank like this and the closest I have found is the aluminum one that Classic Perf offers. My frame rails are only 27 1/2" and their tank is 27 3/4".......would love to see your tank. __________________ 1971 C10 Stepside. LSx 6.0 with BTR Stage IV, Speed Engineering Headers, 4L80e transmission w/3200 Circle-D Stall. 3.73. Posi. Purchased this truck when I was 17. I started the rebuild (or take apart) in 1993. I have drug it around all over the country in pieces. Finally back on the road in 2021. "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

12-17-2002, 04:56 PM	#24
PICKMUP "Trucks with Class" Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: OLYMPIA, WA, USA Posts: 8,166	Tank fits! 71Stepside: you are exactly right, our frames are 27.5". I have these tanks made 27.25". Here is a pic. email me for more details. Thanks. Attached Images __________________ Email: frankeham@comcast.net Phone: 360-956-7170

12-17-2002, 05:37 PM	#25
1971Stepside Almost Satisfied Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,932	email and pm sent!! __________________ 1971 C10 Stepside. LSx 6.0 with BTR Stage IV, Speed Engineering Headers, 4L80e transmission w/3200 Circle-D Stall. 3.73. Posi. Purchased this truck when I was 17. I started the rebuild (or take apart) in 1993. I have drug it around all over the country in pieces. Finally back on the road in 2021. "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far."

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