Powertrain thoughts for my project?

[TwoFiftyShifter]

So I'm doing a bit of an overhaul on my '64 this winter so I can bring it out in the spring with some pep. I don't have a whole lot of money to use, call it less than a grand on the motor and tranny, I don't want it to be real fast, I just kind of want it to be fun.

The truck is a shortbed 230 I6, 3 on the tree, 3.73 posi rear. I don't think I can shell out cash to upgrade both motor and tranny, so I may have to keep one. We have a '57 pickup with a 235 3 on the tree with a 3.90 rear, and to be honest I dont want two of those combos. The 3 speed is ok in town but that beat old 235 is revving alot at 55. So I have a few different options.

Option 1 is to retain the 3 speed and build up the six. I have an offy intake and an HEI already (thanks aerotruk!) and have read up ALOT on this, and I just ordered Leo Santuccis book. I figure the intake and a 390cfm, some sort of mild cam, maybe a cheapo summit split header and the hei unit. I wont spend a whole ton on the motor that way. But I still will be revved out like nuts at 60ish and may only have 20 more hp. The cool factor of the six makes this option 1.

Option 2 is to go easy on building the 6, make it run right and do the T5 swap. Also going to cost a little. BUT, it will be way more enjoyable to drive. The swap doesn't look bad, S10 tranny or camaro with s10 tail, different clutch setup, some modifications to the bellhousing, and a shorter driveshaft. I think that covers that.

Option 3 is to leave the 3 speed and put a V8 in it. I have a 1971 400 in the garage that runs great, and wouls have a bit more balls then the 230 even stock. I'd probably need a beefier radiator, and a stronger clutch for sure, but The swap itself doesnt seem bad, and I'd have some getup and go, and the ability to crack 70mph if i wanted . The 3 speed would barely take it, but i have a spare so I would be ok.

Ideally I'd go build the 400 up and put an M22 muncie in there, but the budget doesnt allow. I've been really up in the air about this truck, it wont be a show vehicle, not even close, it will be a weekend crusier/DD/wow it still has primer on it kind of thing. So, anyone have an opinion on what I should do? Any input is appreciated.

[Rich 5150 69]

If it were mine I`d put the 400 in, as is to start, backed by a 700 4r, it would have a lot lower first gear that any four speed plus you would get some milage in the top end, then later you could always up grade the motor slowly, cam and head change or complete new bottom end.

[TheDark1]

When I built my 350 I ran a larger stock radiator out of another truck. Even though the air flow area was cut down because it was wider than the original, it still allowed more volume of coolant and had no problems. I just made some homemade brackets for it. I ran a cheap-o replacement clutch set-up from the local parts house in the stock 3-speed tranny. You'll lose traction way before you hurt that little 3-speed. I had 3.73 gears and it still howled down the hiway. The 400 should use everything that the I-6 uses except the exhaust. I'd put the 400 in and use exhaust manifolds with a real exhaust set up. They're cheap easy to find and won't give you a screaming headache on the highway. Start saving for an overdrive for next winter. Don't even bother with the M-22 unless you can drop the rear gears to a 3.50 ratio or lower. The Muncie doesn't have an overdrive so you'll be turning the same RPM's at 70 as the little 3-speed. It just splits the ratio's between 4 gears instead of 3, the final drive is still 1:1 in both. Find a cheap clutch set, a decent radiator and drop in the 400. You should be able to do that for way less that a grand. Oh yeah, on the 3-speed. My truck had 285 thousand miles on it when I got it from a field where it had sat for years. It had the old lube in it and I used to do clutch drops at 5000 rpm's and wait for it to shatter. Never happened.

[Captainfab]

I would go with option 2. That way it will be economical to drive for a while, and you will be able to save money for more upgrades.

BTW if you do decide to go with the SB 400, you will need to use an externaly balanced flywheel. The one on the 230 isn't externally balanced.

[82swampthing]

definatly the 400sb , stick with the 3-speed and save up for a tremec tko 5speed or muncie m-22. don't put a automatic in there those are for girls.

[LILRED66]

Girls...like the one in your avatar?

[scotts62]

Originally Posted by LILRED66

Girls...like the one in your avatar?

If it runs now i would fix up the one that is in it or put the 235 in there and get it running right and save and rebuild the 400 that way you have something to drive and build the engine you want at the same time.

[markeb01]

If you’ve already read a LOT about the fixing up the six, I’d spend a bit more time considering which is more important to your enjoyment of owning the truck – the cool factor and long term economy of the six, or the fun factor of driving it with a V8. Seems like everyone is broke right now and gas isn’t going back to 30 cents a gallon any time soon. The 6 with a 5 speed would be more fun than the six with a 3 speed, and economy would improve. They sound cool on cruise night with split pipes, are pretty rare hopped up, usually drawing a crowd. All the mounts, hoses and pipes are already there, and if you added a couple of gears now, you could add more power rather easily later as the budget allows. The six will almost always be cheaper in the long run, because once you swap to a V8 you’ll never run out of things to upgrade.

On the other hand if you really enjoy blasting around quickly in an old truck that was never designed to go that fast, the V8 wins hands down in the fun factor. Now living on the limited income of semi-retirement, a six cylinder in my truck would really be practical for economy, but I have a couple of late model jelly bean cars for transportation that get great mileage. My truck is mostly for fun, so I’d rather launch like a rocket than save money. I’m running a 350 with a Richmond Super T10 four speed and 4.09 gears in a Dana 44. 60 mph would spin the engine somewhere around 3 grand, but most of my driving is on surface streets where I just don’t need to twist it that tight. Consider what type of driving you’ll be doing when deciding final drive gearing. If it's rarely going to travel far or at freeway speeds, 3.73’s or 3.90’s can be fun. They do of course stop being fun if the truck needs to be more general purpose and doesn’t have overdrive.

If you decide to go with the V8 swap, I agree with TheDark1 on the durability of the stock 3 speed. Years ago I put a Corvette 283 in front of an old puny 54 Chevy passenger car 3 speed with the torque tube driveline, and it held up for years before the spider gears in the rearend finally broke. Concentrate on the engine swap now. The major things are pretty easy to plan for but there will always be a bunch of things pop up you didn’t expect. It doesn’t take too many of those surprises to add up to $1000.

[astrochimp]

How about the 400, and the T5? Your not talking much extra $ to do both at once.

With just the 400 you will still be turning too many rpms on 55, and will just smoke the tires.

A weak clutch, narrow tires and driver who cares will let the S-10 tranny live behind the 400.

[TwoFiftyShifter]

Thanks for the input guys.... I still have no clue what I'm gonna do. Im going to keep reding for now. Can someone answer a dumb question for me? Whats an RV cam? Everyone says to use an RV cam on the 6, but I don't get it... is RV a cam company? I looked at cams on crane cams for the I6, but there were no prices for them, I'd like to get an idea of what to spend.... Thanks, I'm awaiting Leo's power manual, should come in next week.

[777ralph]

An RV cam is a mild cam like you'd use in an RV (a camper van) more torque, but still smooth idle.
Now to answer the main question - My 64 longbox was exactly like yours. My six died, so I dropped in a 305. Same flywheel, clutch, bellhousing, rad - everything but exhaust. Your 400 would be the same except for the flywheel Captainfab mentioned. The drivetrain survives because it never hooks up.
Trouble is, it still screams at 3000 rpm/60mph with 275/60-15 tires. Gas mileage sucks.
So to answer your question, I'd do the 5 speed swap first to get the fun factor, driveability, and some gas mileage, then the 400 can come later. The stock 6 cylinder flywheel can take a 10.5 inch clutch, with whatever spline the s10 trans has. A clutch shop can make that inexpensively. Easy swap.
Ralph

[jhnpldng]

option 2
freshen, not build, the six and put the 5spd behind it. Then slowly build the 400 as the funds come in from the gas savings of the six.

[scotts62]

[TwoFiftyShifter]

Freshen it? It runs pretty good save for the carb, It shouldn't need a rebuild..... look at it in action last year! Haha

YouTube- Little burnout in my truck, bad quality

[TwoFiftyShifter]

Another querstion..... Whats the visual difference between the 3 speed and the later model 3 speed with synchro 1st? My dad has a spare 3 speed that was supposedly from a 67-72 era truck in the attic, I'm going to go take a look at it. That would be a little better than the current 3 speed and..... FREE!