I need a little help with Trick Front Springs

[team39763]

I had some 260lbs trick springs in my truck. They worked out great at first, but then I started taking weight off the front end and the stance looked horrible. I needed the truck lower, so I went and had them cut down (1-1/4 coil), but the guy cut the bottoms off and now they don't sit right. I don't think they are transferring weight like they used to either. My truck goes decent off the line, but it doesn't look like it transfers any weight. I think I'm gonna need that if I start launching it hard off the line.
Here's a crappy video of it. It was an old airport, no surface prep, I didn't do a burnout, and my slicks were at 20psi. I was stalling it up to 1500rpms and smoothly rolling into it.

[IMG]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/team39...

[IMG]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/team39...

What I want to know is if I need more weight tranfer than this? Or will more weight tranfer not help me much? I'm not sure, but before I had them cut, it would blow the tires off shortly after the hit or it would just launch crappy. Should I just buy the same springs and cut them myself and see if they do anything different? My first thought was to buy 240lbs springs and hopefully they'll compress a little more and I won't have to cut them. I'm going to get the truck weighed today, so I'll report back with the front end weight soon.

[Super73]

A truck that used to weigh say 2260 on the nose and now weighs 1860 on the nose is not going to compress the spring the same [(IE why you cut it) The weights mentioned are the changes I saw with my own truck]. If the spring is not compressed the same it is not going to store the same energy. Hence why it is not lifting the front the same. Cutting a spring IMO is never the right way to lower a vehicle. Sure your lowering the truck, but the stored energy is even less of what it was with the heavier front end. Buying a spring with a lighter spring rate is the best way to do it.

If you want an accurate assesment, I need to know the weight of the front end and how far the spring is compressed in the A-arm at your desired ride height. Only then can we figure out the correct length/rate spring.

[team39763]

The guy at the weigh station didn't give me my front end weight like I asked twice. So I'll try going back out there again tomorrow when someone else is working the station...this guy don't seem to like me...he's done stuff like this several times to me before. He had someone else bring me the slip while he took off.

EDIT: Compressed height is 10".

[regan wilson]

Originally Posted by team39763

The guy at the weigh station didn't give me my front end weight like I asked twice. So I'll try going back out there again tomorrow when someone else is working the station...this guy don't seem to like me...he's done stuff like this several times to me before. He had someone else bring me the slip while he took off.

EDIT: Compressed height is 10".

The only way to really figure out what is going on is to use four wheel scales. If you have any dirt racing buddies they should have some .

[team39763]

Ok, I called and one of my wife's relatives works there and was watching the scale as I weighed it and he said about 1800lbs for the front end weight. Compressed height is 10" with 1-1/4 coil cut off. I'd like it about .5-1" lower than it is now.

[Super73]

1,800lbs is pretty light. I have worked very hard to get mine there (not saying you haven't) and it's still at 1,880lbs.. 100lbs makes a huge difference due to the 1.92 leverage ratio.

Example A) 1,900lbs 10" compressed height and a 18" long spring would require a 198lb rate.

Example B) 1,800lbs 10" compressed height and a 18" long spring would require a 187lb rate.

Doesn't seem like much difference does it.. Well, let's look a little further..

Take Example A's spring and put it in example B.. Set's your ride height up 0.9"

Take example B's spring in put it in example A.. It drops you 0.94"

This is why having a real number to work with is better than a guess..

Let's just say they are off by 200lbs, and it's really 2000lbs.. If I told you to go with B's spring because you were told it was 1,800lbs your truck would be 1.92" lower than it is now.

I like to give people solid dead on info.. So if you can get me a real weight, I'll give you real spring info.

[team39763]

I understand. I'll get you a real weight tomorrow.

[will scratch]

I was wondering about these springs you guys are using, are they the moroso trick springs? The reason for asking is that when I measured my stock springs they appear to be 5.5" diameter. I thought the moroso trick front springs were 5" diameter only. Will the 5" work if 5.5" is stock.

[Super73]

I was running a Moroso spring for quite some time with no issues.. Now I have a V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee spring in mine since it's about a 200lb rate and 18" long.

[team39763]

Ok, my front end weight was 1900lbs with my street wheels on...so it'd be 1840lbs in race trim.
Honestly, I would love to be 2" lower than where my truck sits now, but I'd settle for 1" if that's not pushing it too far.

[Super73]

How much room do you have before you hit your bump stops (IE how much before you bottom it out)?

1840 is with a 6" wheel and what tire (IF can you weigh your race rims/tires)?

So right now they are 10" compressed and you are happy with the ride height? Sounds like you want to go .25-.5" lower?

Would it be hard for you to pull a spring out and tell me free height? I'm guessing they sit right about 15 3/4" to 16"

A 18" 186lb spring would probably put you .5" lower than you are now and store a ton of energy.

Another spring that might work for you on the cheap is the same spring I am now running. A V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee spring (the late 90's early 2000's). I'd install it uncut and see where it's at. Might sit a little lower than you want though. BTW, I think i was off a little on the rate of this spring, I think it's closer to 177-180lbs.. i'll have to double heck my compressed height again..

Here are some other options that should put you about .25-.5" lower than you are now.:

17.00 - 211
17.25 - 204
17.50 - 197
17.75 - 191
18.00 - 186

[team39763]

I have 2" before I bottom out on the driver side(without my weight in it) and 3" on the passenger side. The driver side spring is bowed and not sitting level at the bottom though. The passenger side is sitting correctly. I installed brand new prothane bumpstops though so the bottoming out won't be too bad.

The front wheel and tire weigh 21lbs together(per side).

I would be perfectly happy with 1" lower than where it sits now.

I'm not sure if I can pull the springs myself, I usually let a real mechanic install my springs....I don't have the confidence to try it yet.

I think I'd like to try that Jeep spring since they're cheap enough.

[team39763]

How tall is the Jeep spring(free height)? I don't think I can get my hands on a set soon enough to get them in before my trip to the track next week(wed). Moroso doesn't seem to have anything that would work for me.

EDIT: I just bought some 99-04 V8 Grand Cherokee springs. Hopefully I'll have them in by next friday. I found where you said they were 17 3/4" tall, so they should put me where I want to be as far as height.

[scatesracing]

I think we all need Shaun on speed dial..... LOL.. Thanks for making sense of this stuff for us all.... I cut my stock springs for ride height. still rides nice but dosnt transfer for anything... I read your sticky and now it all makes sense.time for some new springs

[team39763]

Yeah, it's all making sense to me now. I appreciate the help Super73. I'll post up the results next weekend hopefully.

[Super73]

Sorry, didn't get to the spring height ect questions.

The jeep spring I am running is 17 3/4".. But I see you found it please let me know what your compressed height is once installing them.

If you'd like to have me on speed dial, I'm game.. (408) 857-6985.. I don't mind talking and seeing if I can help Just remember, I'm on Pacific Standard time

[team39763]

I think I ordered the wrong springs because the ones I got are only 15" tall. I'm gonna throw them in there anyway just to see what happens. They were 99-04 grand cherokee V8 front springs.

[Super73]

I didn't order mine.. I went to pick and pull and yanked a set out.. If they didn't work, I could always bring them back anf yank another set out.. I had to do that since I tried a set from a 6cyl first..

[team39763]

Our local yard didn't have any so I bought these off ebay. I'll give them a try and see what happens....I'm pretty sure these are too short to give me the effect I want. I'm taking another 40lbs off the front end to see if that helps some. I'll report back in a few days when I get the springs installed.

[KQQL IT]

^^^ id like to see a pic of the final ride height with cherokee springs.

[team39763]

I decided not to put these springs in since I'm pretty sure it'll lower the truck too much and I don't think they'll have the same stored energy. So I'm going to try to get some v6 cherokee springs from the local yard and see if I can sell these. I think these were Grand Cherokee "Limited" springs, so maybe that's why they weren't right. I removed 40lbs off the nose and I'm about to see if I can remove another 40 in the front somewhere. So hopefully the V6 springs will be perfect when I'm done.

[Super73]

I hope they do for you... They didn't for me..

[71chevytruckguy]

I tried a set of springs off a regular Cheeroke with a straight 6. Went right to the bumps soon as I let the jack down. I'm guessin your gonna have to go with a V8 Grand. Chris.

[Super73]

Ditto.. Same thing happened to me with the 6 cyl springs.

[team39763]

I did the math that was posted up in suspension 101 and I came up with 1585 for my sprung weight(with racewheels and current weigh reduction). After working in the leverage ratio, I'm left with 1505(if I did it right). I think I want a compressed height of 9"...so with a 17" spring I'd need a 190lbs rate. I'm gonna call around and see who makes something like that.