camaro suspension upgrade

[JadXtreme]

I'm a pretty knew owner of a 55 Chevy 3100 and I haven't really started my build yet but I have a question about a Camaro suspension upgrade. I've seen where its been done to this model truck and I hear it fits under the truck pretty well. I believe that the 2nd generation Camaro, from 70-81 model, is the best one that I could use for this, I'm just making sure before I get a donor car for this upgrade. Also, will this suspension on its own help to lower the truck or will I need an aftermarket drop kit for the Camaro to lower the truck down some?

[Indian113]

P.M. Me and I'll send you a photo album of one of my friends truck done this way! Ihave a 53 with a nova and it lowered it. Ray

[Hottrucks]

first off welcome to the board if your not addicted you will be soon.....

now for your front end...its not that it wont fit but its alot of work to patch in something....I have done a couple...now let me tell you what I have learned... its not worth it!!! theres enough bolt in kits that are built just for your year make and model...the nice part is it all modern..they are adjustable wether you want to do springs,coil overs or air,not exhaust issues or steering later.....
they maybe alittle pricey for you but for the advantages its worth it... I use Scotts Hot Rod stuff ...give them a call ask for Jeph tell him you got his name from me off the board and he'll hook you up with a good price then you can decide from there...

Jeff

[nikwho]

I just finished a camaro clip graft. I would agree with Hottrucks, im sure, if I could afford the bolt in or weld in IFS kits, with the exception of mustang II kits. Im not a fan of those myself. If your pretty cabable with basic metal fabrication, the camaro swaps are very simple and very cheap! The "No Limit" way is the cleanest and lowers the truck some. Im not sure of how much because I dont have my engine and tranny back in place yet.
Here is a link to the no limit instructional dvd which helped me a bunch!

http://www.nolimit.net/prodinfo.asp?number=D%2D101

The video content is good but the quality of the film is very dissapointing! It was copied from an old VHS onto DVD. No Limit should really update the video!

Here is another way that a guy did the swap on the HAMB. Not very clean but lowers the truck about 7 inches with factory camaro suspension which means you could really slam it with drop spindles and/or drop springs.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ro+swap+in+day

[twcarman]

I am still colecting parts for my Camaro swap. I have the clip from a 1976 hope to have all the parts to start on this in the fall. I have a freind in Charlotte that will be helping me. Let me know if you have any questions.

[mr48chev]

The two links that Nikwho posted are pretty much the standard for putting a Camaro/Firebird clip under one of those trucks. Lux Blue on the H.A.M.B. pretty well takes any guess work out of it and does a great job of explaining the process.

I haven't seen the No Limit dvd and probably never will but that might help if you are more inclined to follow a video format rather than a written format.

Here are some photos of a Tri five frame that my buddy subframed with a Trans Am subframe. He has done about 25 of them in the past 25 years.
http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w...pu%20subframe/

[Indian113]

This is a friends of mines that he did with a camaro,I wish I had done my 53 this way instead of a cut and butt

[nikwho]

Indian113, Any chance you have a picture of the very front of the first pic that you posted? My IFS swap is just about done and I just need to get the front of my frame done. It looks like they used some thick flat stock instead of using the front of the factory frame. You have any other info on this??

[Indian113]

That's all I have but I will e-mail my friend and see if he has anymore pictures. I would imagine that it is a piece of flat stock so he could mount up his fenders. I cut the front off of my frame horns and made a bracket to mount up my front on my 53.

[Indian113]

He said the flat plate was for a bumper mount,the tab is for the core support. Rich told me some guys weld the old frame horns on the clip also.

[OrrieG]

Nice work but that core support tab looks a little small to me. The core support holds the radiator, inner and outer front fenders and front of the hood. On the stock trucks it is mounted on the top of the frame on a thick bracket that is in pure vertical compression. Your bracket adds the moment force which multiplies the vertical compressive element by the distance of the horizontal cantilever. I could see sagging of the front clip and even cracking at the angle over time. Could be a problem if the truck is lowered and it decides to break loose at speed.

[nikwho]

Hey, Thanks Indian113! Better pics than I expected you to be able to come up with. Im not going to lie, that looks clean and MUCH, MUCH easier than welding the frame horns of the factory frame back on! I think that I will try that method. And all of OrrieG's big words makes me think a larger, triangulated tab for the core support might be in order too!

[nikwho]

Oh, also on the subject of Camaro IFS installs, if a person wanted to use the factory camaro engine mounts, the rubber engine mount that bolts to the subframe is cheap and easy to find. Where would a person find the piece of hardware that bolts to the block and bolts up to the camaro engine mounts. I know these were used in a bunch of different chevy cars, but i cant track them down anywhere. None of the parts houses(NAPA, autozone, checker etc.) have them available because they are "parts that dont wear out" and chevy dealership says they are discontinued. nobody can lead me in the right direction.

[izonme13]

I believe most chevy and gmc cars and trucks from early 70's to around 87 used the same engine mount on the engine. the mount for the frame is different. I used 81 chevy truck engine mount in my 77 nova clip. It was the frame mounts that were different. Please correct me if im wrong guys, just going by my experience with these.

[entourageguy]

If you go thru Cals thread ( if you have a couple of hours ) on his truck he talks about the frame horns and his motor mounts.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=162816

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Here's my 54 that I sold last year. I wouldn't recommend this approach if you're trying to get it low.
This method gave it a stock stance....

[nikwho]

see, in 63 & 64's picture, the rubber engine mount bolts to the frame. I can not, for the life of me, track down the other half of that style mount that would bolt to the block. any ideas on where to find it???

[TINKERDUKE]

I have just done my 55 the way indian113's friend did it and it was a simple method which i followed from a thread on the hamb: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=148978
The 55 now handles like its on rails with great brakes and steering too! I would recommend tacking the clip to chassis and checking the wheel is centred in the arch before final welding. Steve.

[JadXtreme]

I will be acquiring a Oldsmobile 455 BB to put in the place of the original 235 I6. I don't have the engine yet but I believe it originally came out of a mid 70s Olds 98. The engine has been pulled for about 10 years, sits around, gets cranked every so often, and runs well. Supposedly the engine has about 30K miles on it. Will the 455 bolt up to the Camaro sub frame pretty easily?

I will be getting the engine with a TH400 bolted to it, but I would really like a 5 speed manual to put behind it. What transmission should I be looking for? Will a 5 speed out of a F/S Chevy truck work? Will I need a custom bellhousing? What issues might I run into with this Olds 455?

An unrelated question... How hard would it be to put the full wrap around window in the truck? What are my options to make a larger rear window?

Here also is a couple of pics from yesterday when I did some work to the truck.

[raycow]

Originally Posted by JadXtreme

Will the 455 bolt up to the Camaro sub frame pretty easily?

I will be getting the engine with a TH400 bolted to it, but I would really like a 5 speed manual to put behind it. What transmission should I be looking for? Will a 5 speed out of a F/S Chevy truck work? Will I need a custom bellhousing? What issues might I run into with this Olds 455?

If you use a 2nd gen Camaro subframe, factory frame brackets for the Olds do exist, at least theoretically. A 403 version of the Olds came in 77-79 Trans Ams. The other possibility is 75-77 Nova clones, which offered a 260 version of the Olds. The Firebird parts will probably be fetching collector prices, but I don't think the X-bodies will attract much notice.

The bellhousing situation is a little more problematic. BOP bellhousings aren't particularly scarce, and they are all pretty similar from 64 until the end of production (I am guessing early-mid 80s?). Unfortunately, these were all made for 3 and 4 speed car transmissions. The only factory 5 speed which will bolt up is a T-5, and those are nowhere near strong enough for a 455. For a high performance aftermarket 5 speed, you could use a Tremec TKO, which will bolt to the BOP bell without modification. You could also use a Richmond 5 or 6 speed, but the shifter is likely to be too far back unless you have buckets.

If you really want a truck 5 speed, your best bet is a Dodge NV4500 and this adaptor plate.
http://advanceadapters.com/product/2202/712550.html
This plate will bolt to a stock BOP bell after you have a machine shop open up the center hole. I don't know of a practical way to use a GM NV4500.

Aftermarket bellhousings are available from Lakewood and McLeod (and possibly others) with a BOP bolt pattern, but they don't offer any more useful choices on the transmission side. Some of these will let you bolt up a Ford 3 or 4 speed gearbox, but no factory 5 speeds other than the T-5.

Lastly, a Diesel version of the Olds was available in 78-80 light trucks. I don't know if it was offered with a manual transmission, but if it was, and if you could find one of the bellhousings, it would have the large center hole and would accept the NV4500 adaptor without modification.

Ray

[JadXtreme]

What year NV4500 tranny is best for my application? How common are the transmissions? How often is an Olds BB wedged between the framerails of a classic Chevy like this?

[raycow]

Originally Posted by JadXtreme

How often is an Olds BB wedged between the framerails of a classic Chevy like this?

Not often enough, IMO. Once in a while, I would like to see ANYTHING other than a SBC in there for a change.

The Dodge transmissions would be from the mid 90s on up. They aren't particularly scarce, although more of those trucks probably have automatics than 5 speeds. The important thing is that you DON'T want a transmission that was behind a diesel or a V-10. You want the input shaft to have 1-1/8" splines, not 1-1/4".

Ray

[OrrieG]

Advanced and Wilcap are two places that have trans to engine adapters. Back in the 50s, 60s guys were always trying to stuff big engines into anything that moved (kid in high school had a 392 Hemi in a jeepster, Caddy engine in a Studebaker pickup). It seems like the Olds and Pontiacs are wider than BB so you will have the same header, firewall, steering box, brake booster issues. Not impossible, just more fabrication.

[bobinbc]

If it was me in your shoes I'd be tempted to get the body all done on the '55. Then toss the body off that Tacoma of yours, shorten the frame about 6" or so and throw the body on that. I wouldn't tear the Toyota apart until I had the body ready though, just in case.
Best of both worlds, tough Toyota engineering, classic Chevy styling

Then again maybe not. I just checked out your Toy, still looks nice. In this part of the world, the metal worms would've had it half eaten by now...

[JadXtreme]

Alot of the transmissions that I'm finding are from a 4wd truck. Does it really matter if its a 4 or 2wd?

I haven't gotten my donor camaro yet, just still trying to line everything up so that when I get everything, I can get working on it. Is there a particular model camaro that is best for the sub frame swap or does it matter so long as its a 2nd gen? Also, will I be able to use the rear end out of the camaro as well? Getting a rear end from the camaro, does it pretty much gaurantee that it'll be a posi rear?

Would boxing the frame in be a good idea for this particular build since I'm going with a 455 BB and 5 speed or does it matter? I haven't seen any pics where someone fully boxed the frame that I know of.

I haven't never did any kind of restoration before so I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row.