Z'd frame questions

[fryer1979]

I've been thinking a bit lately about the possibility of Z'ing my frame on my '65. I understand the basic concept of this modification, but have a few questions on how things may piece all back together. I've done some searching and read quite a bit of great info and learned a lot, but I am still left with a few "fit and finish" questions. I understand that for the radiator support mounts I would just cut them off and move them down however high I make the Z, but what about the inner fender perches on the cab? And the inner fenders themselves, would I just trim them to fit? Also since moving the entire front of the chassis up inevitably moves the engine mounts up (and effectivly the engine and trans), Does this cause any issues with the clearances on the cab for the motor and trans? Will there be issues with the trans mount, and even driveshaft angles? If so, how would I go about correcting the problems?

I know this is a lot of questions, but I am really trying to decide how much extra custom work will be needed before I go cutting up a good frame. My goal is not to "drag frame" or any other part of the truck, and I don't care about "tuckin' 22s", and I'm not interested in airbag suspensions. It's just that everything I have been reading seems to point to a 4"-5" drop is about as far as I could go without chassis mods anyways. And I just don't think that is going to be low enough for me. The cutting and welding is all things I can do for free in my own shop, whereas the cost of the Porterbuilt (and similar products) components to get that low are quite a bit more than I plan to spend on getting this thing on the road. Seems to me a few inches worth of Z in the frame, along with a pair of lowered spindles, and a few inches of lowered springs should give me what I want all while not killing my pocketbook (and ultimately me when the wife spots the bill ).

Sorry this is a bit long winded, I just wanted to get as much info as I could out to minimize further questions. Thanks for you time fellas.

[OARNGESI]

3 inch spindles with 3 inch springs is pretty low if you z the frame your a arms will probally end up on the ground and your truck probally wont be able to drive do you not want to use bags

[fryer1979]

I'll probably be something more like 2" spindles + 1" coil up front, and 3" or 4" coil in the rear. Still trying to decide on dimensions for sure though. I want it good and low, but still driveable. I wish I had a picture of my good firend's 1964 Riviera handy, his is really close to the ground on a static drop and he drives it every day. That's what I am looking for.

[OARNGESI]

Why not just go with a 3inch spindle and a 3 inch spring it will be way easier than doing a z and if your doing spriings spindles anyways it wouldnt be any cheaper

[fryer1979]

Originally Posted by fryer1979

4"-5" drop is about as far as I could go without chassis mods anyways. And I just don't think that is going to be low enough for me.

That's meant to read as a 4" front drop and a 5" rear drop. I want to be lower than that, and don't really care how much "work" is involved. I just don't have the cash or interest to do it the other ways. If I had that extra money, it would go into the engine anyways.

[fryer1979]

Before this thread goes too far off course I'm gonna repost the original questions. Thanks

Originally Posted by fryer1979

I've been thinking a bit lately about the possibility of Z'ing my frame on my '65. I understand the basic concept of this modification, but have a few questions on how things may piece all back together. I've done some searching and read quite a bit of great info and learned a lot, but I am still left with a few "fit and finish" questions. I understand that for the radiator support mounts I would just cut them off and move them down however high I make the Z, but what about the inner fender perches on the cab? And the inner fenders themselves, would I just trim them to fit? Also since moving the entire front of the chassis up inevitably moves the engine mounts up (and effectivly the engine and trans), Does this cause any issues with the clearances on the cab for the motor and trans? Will there be issues with the trans mount, and even driveshaft angles? If so, how would I go about correcting the problems?

[SCOTI]

I understand that for the radiator support mounts I would just cut them off and move them down however high I make the Z, but what about the inner fender perches on the cab? And the inner fenders themselves, would I just trim them to fit?

Yep, trim them to fit as needed. The more you Z, the more you'll be cutting.

Also since moving the entire front of the chassis up inevitably moves the engine mounts up (and effectivly the engine and trans), Does this cause any issues with the clearances on the cab for the motor and trans?

You'll likely need a high hump trans tunnel or cut & raise the small hump. Cowl & hood clearance will likely depend on engine size & components. You can measure the height of everything you have currently & see if adding 2-3" of height will cause problems.

Will there be issues with the trans mount, and even driveshaft angles? If so, how would I go about correcting the problems?

Yes, there will be changes needed. Trans mount will need to be raised the same as the Z. Cut the old one off & remount it higher or build a new c.member. The best d.shaft option is a 2pc shaft w/a carrier bearing. It should minimize interior intrusion & limit vibrations @ various angles.

[chevy_mike]

Another option if you want to keep it cheap and you can do good/strong welding is to modify your front lower A arms and do dropped arms.

You basically cut the ball joint off and mount it 2-3" higher using plate and gussets. This keeps all your original parts. Then you can get some lowered springs or cut some from your stock ones. This should net you 4-5" drop, minimal cost and still have some travel in the suspension without all the hassles of Z'ing.

This was the old school way before dropped spindles were on the market. I had bought dropped A arms for my old '68, back about 15 years ago. Rode great and worked really well.

Here's a couple scanned in pics I had (before the days of digital cameras LOL)

[fryer1979]

SCOTI: Thanks a lot, that pretty much tells me what I need to know. I'm really thinking I want to go for it.

chevy_mike: Actually I have seen that quite a bit years ago, it's just been so long I pretty much forgot about them. I'll keep that in mind for sure, just in case I get cold feet before the frame gets cut.

[kdrodworks316]

If you want to destroy your truck, and make it drive like $#!*, then go ahead and z the frame. Make sure you tune it up before you do it, cause the distributer cap will be right under the wiper motor, if not touching. The steering will need some expensive double u joints and a hiem joint. Having owned a Z'd truck and dealing with alot of headaches because of it, I think its a total waste of time and welding wire if your doing a simple static drop instead of bags anyway. Coils and spindles are cheap and reliable.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by kdrodworks316

If you want to destroy your truck, and make it drive like $#!*, then go ahead and z the frame. Make sure you tune it up before you do it, cause the distributer cap will be right under the wiper motor, if not touching. The steering will need some expensive double u joints and a hiem joint. Having owned a Z'd truck and dealing with alot of headaches because of it, I think its a total waste of time and welding wire if your doing a simple static drop instead of bags anyway. Coils and spindles are cheap and reliable.

Any exaggeration here? Let's share facts & let each person decide what's best for their application.

Make sure you tune it up before you do it, cause the distributer cap will be right under the wiper motor, if not touching.

If you can do a Z or install the alternative (Dropmember or SD Raised C.member), you can easily resolve the distributer dilemma w/a tape measure & a little extra planning. If YOU had issues, planning could have prevented them.

The steering will need some expensive double u joints and a hiem joint.

Yes, a Z will require these mods just like the above mentioned Porterbuilt Dropmember or SD Raised C.member.

If you didn't read it, this member want's the truck to have the ground clearance of a 3/5 drop w/the actual ride height of a 6/8 drop. It takes more than spindles (or dropped a-arms) & springs to get that drop regardless of the spring choice (coils or bags).

While I don't recommend Z-ing a frame, I do understand when others choose that possibilty.

[fryer1979]

Originally Posted by kdrodworks316

If you want to destroy your truck, and make it drive like $#!*, then go ahead and z the frame. Make sure you tune it up before you do it, cause the distributer cap will be right under the wiper motor, if not touching. The steering will need some expensive double u joints and a hiem joint. Having owned a Z'd truck and dealing with alot of headaches because of it, I think its a total waste of time and welding wire if your doing a simple static drop instead of bags anyway. Coils and spindles are cheap and reliable.

Wow! That was outstandingly helpfull, thanks a lot.

[fryer1979]

Most of the guys I hang out with around here are 15+ years my senior and have been building/driving these types of cars for years. Some of them were even around and active in the lifestyle when all of this kind of stuff first began. Some of them have vehicles that are built exactly the way I am looking into for mine, and they drive VERY nice. As SCOTI pointed out, it is all about planning. I'm just looking for some info from the guys here who have successfully done a Z on our trucks, and I am pretty sure I've got it covered now. Moving the engine down is an option, but then again so is modifying the firewall. I'm not scared of moving things around a bit to accomidate the raised engine, it's only metal. The air bags and dropmembers and all are really cool, but for the money that stuff costs I could put a few more rides in my stables. Guess I'm just old school like that, comes with the way I was raised I believe. I don't see why a properly thought out 3 or 4 inch Z would cause any driver issues, and a 2 or 3 inch drop in front with a 3 or 4 inch drop in the back should not alter the suspension geometry enough to give a horrible ride quality. And it doesn't in the cars I am around. I really do appreciate the honest answers from you guys taking the time to type them out. It really has helped answer my questions, and will help me put my thoughts onto blueprints. Any other info that has not been covered here, or maybe even some different approaches would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks again guys.

[nhtc33d]

I did a 3.5" Z on my 65 and moved the motor mounts to the front holes in the frame to fix the clearance issue with the dist. I had to make a new trans. tunnel to clear the transmission but have seen others modify there stock tunnel too.
Hope this helps!

[redneck6]

cut it cut it now while you got it all tore apart , and bags and plates are not the expensive part , the compressoers and vavles are . think simi trucks and i may have a hook up for us on the lines and a tank or too . o ya cut it cut it lol .

[laid_out_70]

its possible to move the engine back down an inch or two and for the steering you can use the steering joints out of an astro van

[jonzcustomshop]

here is a little info:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/738021/6

[fryer1979]

Good info guys, thanks.