Taming the seat belt mess

[jocko]

Good afternoon gents. Some earlier threads about seat belts and discussion about retractors, three-pointing it, etc. My biggest frustration was this:
- my belts flopped around on the mounting bolts (bolts seated, but shoulder was pretty wide and there was lots o metal clankin. Now, granted - there is a mechanical reason for that - to get the correct angular relationship with the tensile direction of the belt itself, but as long as not mechanically limited - I thought the clanking could be cured).
- the belts were also mounted such that the long latch end belts were mounted outboard and the short male end belts were inboard. So, when I opened my door, the belt REALLY fell out on the floor and scraped on the ground almost every time unless I always wrapped them back up in the seat every time I got out. Then getting in was a pain.

Sounds trivial (and it is) but something worth fixing I thought.

Goal was to keep it at least "looking" original. The key to all this is a set of 65 impala seat belt retractors (I had some from my previous car). They mount on the belt itself (not at the base) and when you release the latch, they just wind up on themselves out of the way. I also swapped the belts outy to inny so that the short male ends were outboard on the cab (like they should be I think - but not important, you HAVE to do it this way with these retractors - and this configuration was stock on my 65 Impala, i.e. short belt male ends on the outboard belts) so that they just retract on themselves and store just at the end of your reach when sitting in the seat. Lastly, I installed a rubber grommet below the belt and above the floor to eliminate the rattling. The grommet is just thick enough so that it only covers the shoulder of the bolt (so, bolt fully seated and tight) and still allows free movement of the anchor on the bolt for proper orientation (you would not want to use washers or too thick a grommet for this). I also washed the belts up a little and let them dry while I had them all out.

Here's a link to the part - it's Part # CD607 on the page. It's easy to install.
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...1AD56201&trk=3

Important safety tip - when wearing the belts, the end with the retractor has to be fully extended (i.e. unwound) so the seat belts still work as advertised - i.e. if it's partially wound up, it's the same as slack in the belt. All your adjustment should be made by adjusting the webbing on the female latch end (like you already do anyway) - but just make sure when adjusting that you have fully unwound the retracted belt.

Here's some pics. First pic is the "before".

Hope someone may find this useful (will take 2 posts to get all the pics in).

[jocko]

here's the rest.

[aerotruk63]

Looks great jocko . Nice truck and now safe and less sound. lol!

[duallyjams]

Good idea for seat belts. Thats the original seat cover.

[DPowers]

Like it- thanks

[jbgroby]

Jock,

I have a question. I want to follow the stock oem location of the seat belt bolt in behind the seat. So that means the lap belt will mount behind the seat and come up through the seat back and bottom. In your opinion based on your exp., with the tention, so you think the spring could/would over come the drag of the seats, so she woud retract?

Thanks
Jake

[jocko]

jbgroby - not certain I understand the question. The belt that comes up through the seat (i.e. the female end belts in the middle) do not have a spring wrap-up tensioner on them - only the outer belts do. (that may have not been clear in the pics above - the outer belts clearly have a spring, but just to clarify - ONLY the outer ones do). In other words, you need 2 spring retractors to do the truck, one for the outer driver and one for the outer passenger belts. Once you install the retractor on the outer belt - you make adjustments to the overall belt by adjusting the inner belt (by pulling the excess tight (and creating more excess)) such that the outer belt is completely straightened out - nothing should be wrapped up in the coil retractor (there are little clip clamps on the retractor to hold it in place when it's unwound). You don't want any slack or remaining wrap-up capability in the outer belt when you're wearing it and driving because it would not restrain you - would be just like wearing a very very loose belt, except that it would feel tighter because it was partially wrapped up around the retractor.

I have a feeling I haven't answered your question - but please let me know - want to make sure I've explained the set-up properly since this is a safety feature.

IF what you're getting at is running the outer belt up through the gap behind the bottom and the back of the seat - I believe that would be an incorrect routing. In an accident, the belt would be put in tension against the metal bar that connects the bottom to the back before it was put in tension purely to the mounting bolt and could potentially shred. I do not recommend running the outer seat belts (i.e. the ones that I have the retractor shown on in the pics above) up between the seat bottom and seat back - the belts are designed to be unobstructed between your butt and the mounting point. (Consider the fact that the inner seat belts DO pass through the seat back/bottom gap - but they run thru in such a way that in an accident, the belt is in tension only and is not slung against any metal framing like the outer belt would be if you ran it between the seat back/bottom and got in a wreck).

I think the last stuff I wrote does pertain to your question now that I've re-read it a couple times. Bottom line - it may not be any issue at all and the seat belt would probably not fail if you do what I think you're suggesting - but it would be using it in a way other than for what it was designed - and I get all weird when it comes to the safety stuff, so I try not to mess with the routing of the belt. The retractor is perfectly safe as long as the belt is fully extended (i.e. no slack and no excess belt length remaining wrapped around the retractor when you are wearing it).

I guess to your actual question (sorry, took me a while to get there) - when the outer belt is fully extended - by design you'll see that the retractor has to be mounted at approximately dead center of the length of the belt - so, yes, it would interfere with the seat back/bottom, which is what I believe you originally asked.

Hope that helps - bottom line, I do not recommend running the outer belt between the seat cushion and seat back - but if you choose to, the routing will interfere with the operation of the retractor.

jocko

[jbgroby]

According to the 1960 Chevy Car/Truck accessory install book I have (Which BTW I sending to Mark to scan for all members) They show the correct install going up through the seats. So I was wondering. I'm going to take another look at the book again.

[jocko]

thanks jbgroby, would like to see that - and thanks for passing to mark to scan. from an engineering standpoint - it just doesn't seem to make sense to me. in a front end impact, the belt would be pressed tightly against the metal frame, and that's not good. I'ts just not a straight line from the mounting point, then up and back and behind the seat to go between the cushions, and then around your hip. I've never actually seen a car or truck with routing like that, i.e. a floor mount, that is near the side, and then routed up and back thru the seat gap. But it sure could be the way they planned it back then.

I'm interested to see your accessory manual, it could sure be the case that I'm doing it different from the factory. One bonus of doing it the way you describe is that it would help center you in the seat better and do a slightly better job of keeping you centered in the seat for a side impact collision.

BUT, to your question - the retractors would interfere with that routing, and I would not mix the two approaches. Good news is that if you choose to route them thru the seat, they will not dangle down as low as they do when not routed thru the seat.

I've actually got an accessory manual somewhere in storage, but living "between" homes right now, so can't look it up myself.

Thanks again, I'm really interested now!

[jbgroby]

Jocko,

I went and took another look at the copy I made of the pages. I was CONFUSED (normal state lately) What threw me was the drawing actually shows 3 seatbelts (middle passinger) Yours is mounted correct and I will do the same.

However, he book does show that you mount a "coat Hook" over the drivers left shoulder to hook the end of the male belt on so keep it from falling out. And do the same for the pass side. I suppose you can get them from any of the parts supply houses for the early '60's cars should be ok. I found these

Truck and Car Shop
Page 103 of the 58-72 Full Sized Chevy & El Camino
Part number 58-06218 $8.00 Pair Chrome Metal

I'm going to pick up another belt set this month and order some other goodies to finish of this project.

[jocko]

hey thanks jbgroby, that sounds like something i needed!

there was a previous thread on here that discussed whether or not 66's had shoulder harnesses, etc - and so naturally I ran out to the garage and checked to see if I had the 3 point stud mounted up on the cab on the inner sail panels. Unfortunately, I did not have them, so I stuck with 2 point lap belts only. Is that the thing you're talking about or is the coat hanger you mention an option specifically for hanging the seat belt when not in use? The 3 point belt (i.e. shoulder belt deal) might have been in the accessories manual because I believe the shoulder harness was still an option in 66 - so that might be where it shows up.

If not, sounds like the coat hook you mention would have been a good alternative to the retraction thingy i installed and would've kept my belts from draggin the ground whenever I opened the door. Probably could be used in conjunction with the retractor somehow too I suppose, but might be a little redundant.

Thanks again! Cool info.

[jbgroby]

Jocko and others,

I was able to snap some good pics of the pages I was taking about