Straight to the track! 383 or 408?

[J-Rod#7]

HI! I'm a newbie so please forgive me. I have just recently acquired a 67 sidestep (no engine/no trans). I'm building this truck to go straight to the track...I'm a speed freak that needs an adrenaline fix. Speeding tickets are starting to rack up and not to mention they crush your car/truck for street racing in Cali...Anywho, i was wondering if anyone has any suggestion on which engine is better for consistent and dependable drag racing? The 383 or the 408 stroker motor?
Any advice for a matching race transmission couldn't hurt either. Please and thank you for any and all suggestions.

[ProStreet68SB]

383

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

ls2 base and bump it to 413 or even 440. I am in the start of re doing the next engine. I had a hot 383 now going to 406. GO as big as you can. If I did not have my old style RHS heads, carb intake, pan etc .... I would not even think about a iron block style engine.
The LS style is the way to go and with the extreme amount of parts out there why not. You can pick up a LS2 from a tahoe, escalade and go from there. My Escalade has the 6.2 and for a boat it gets with the program very well.

[J-Rod#7]

Originally Posted by GMR-PERFORMANCE

ls2 base and bump it to 413 or even 440. I am in the start of re doing the next engine. I had a hot 383 now going to 406. GO as big as you can. If I did not have my old style RHS heads, carb intake, pan etc .... I would not even think about a iron block style engine.
The LS style is the way to go and with the extreme amount of parts out there why not. You can pick up a LS2 from a tahoe, escalade and go from there. My Escalade has the 6.2 and for a boat it gets with the program very well.

Thanks for responding...quick question, do you think that the ls2 block will be able to handle some serious boost cause i'm trying to make this truck move if you know what i saying.

[swb85]

^^^Plenty of guys making 1000hp on stock LS blocks......

[Marv D]

Drag racing... as in heads up class, or brackets? In bracket racing it's you and the clock, not how fast. I've been beat WAY more times than I care to remember by slower cars. In fact, chasing in bracket racing SUCKS,, you want to be the slower car and get the clean tree. You will win more races by driving the finish line stripe than you will by having the quicker car (truck).

All else aside, the the bigger the motor, requiring less RPM = less wear and tear = less maintenance, and the more consistent it will be. Don't stop at 400 , if you have a 400 block a 3.875" stroke is a simple build for 419", and 4" stroke for 434" is super common these days. The sky and the budget is the limit. 2HP per cube normally aspirated is very attainable,, not cheap, but very possible.

If budget is the bigger issue,, a 383 can be done in the 480-500HP range for around $4500 with some shopping around for heads. In which.. I'll repeat my stance on one thing. DO NOT SCRIMP on the HEADS. If your addicted to faster faster faster,, you want to buy heads that you can GROW IN TO, not something that is already maxed out from the get-go.

just my 2¢

[J-Rod#7]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Drag racing... as in heads up class, or brackets? In bracket racing it's you and the clock, not how fast. I've been beat WAY more times than I care to remember by slower cars. In fact, chasing in bracket racing SUCKS,, you want to be the slower car and get the clean tree. You will win more races by driving the finish line stripe than you will by having the quicker car (truck).

All else aside, the the bigger the motor, requiring less RPM = less wear and tear = less maintenance, and the more consistent it will be. Don't stop at 400 , if you have a 400 block a 3.875" stroke is a simple build for 419", and 4" stroke for 434" is super common these days. The sky and the budget is the limit. 2HP per cube normally aspirated is very attainable,, not cheap, but very possible.

If budget is the bigger issue,, a 383 can be done in the 480-500HP range for around $4500 with some shopping around for heads. In which.. I'll repeat my stance on one thing. DO NOT SCRIMP on the HEADS. If your addicted to faster faster faster,, you want to buy heads that you can GROW IN TO, not something that is already maxed out from the get-go.

just my 2¢

That's the most valuable 2 cents i have gotten in a long time, thank you. Go big or go home right? So essentially, playing around with a small block is gonna end in breaking or blowing up? what kind of block do suggest i start with if you don't mind me asking?
O yea, I'm going for heads up racing...bracket racing just seems wrong sometimes. i don't know about you but i believe when you reach that line first you should be the victorious one.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Put it this way I just sold my sand rail and I will tell you that if we can run them in the dunes the race track is nothing. Dune running and boats all take a beating.. Stock style blocks with twin turbos 413 CI making 950 + and beat to death in 110+ temps and they take it all day long. Like I said If I did not have my heads and other parts to re use I think a old style engine is a waste of time. Sorry but the facts have proven that very same thing.

LS engines are a killer way to price wise if you shop around you can find a killer deal on these engines. I saw a complete LS2 go for 1200 on racing junk.com last month. 40,000 mile engine still in wrecked SUV can hear run. Racing is not cheap and if many think they can spray a ton gas on the old set ups and not put the money in the short block and do it on the cheap... Plenty of broken parts is the end result 90% of the time, the other 10 just last a bit longer. The LS base stuff is stronger than most are aware of. I have seen stock LS engines get sprayed 200-250 for bottle after bottle, and these are junk yard engines. Run a mefi ECM and it does the timing retard for you. They just keep right on running. The guys dont care as they have 1500 in the engine if it blows oh well go buy another and spray that one just like the other.


Keep up or get run over..


LS2 500CI STREET/STRIP SAMS
Displacement: 500 CI, 8.2L
Bore x Stroke: 4.200 x 4.500
Compression Ratio: 12:1
Fuel: 93 Octane
Block: LS2 / Ductile Iron Sleeves
Head: LSW ALL PRO Ported (West Coast)
Rockers: Jesel Shaft Rockers (1.8:1)
Crank: Custom Callies Forged
Rods: Custom Carrillo A Beam
Pistons: Custom Wiseco
Camshaft: 248/248 @ .050, 117LSA, 0.660" LIFT
Intake: 102mm ERL
Throttle Body: 102mm ERL Electronic
POWER: 700 HP
TORQUE: 650 FT-LBS


So just how much power can it handle? On a 200hp hit of spray, SAM's 500 cranked out 923 hp and 906 lb-ft on the dyno. Furthermore, while ERL suggests backing down to a 4.1250-inch bore on boosted or heavy nitrous applications, its customers are pushing out 1,500 hp in supercharged motors and 1,700 hp with turbos. That's staggering, to say the least,

Example below, and spray REALLY!!! Huff that mother. A little 413 with a whipple is a 700 Plus hp rig all day long. Now you want to get down and dirty run the new monster whipple and 950-1000 is there, no bottles to fill just stomp the pedal and point your rocket in the right direction and hold on. Take a look at some of the 10.5 outlaw guys running ls set up with blowers or turbos.


here is another killer rig, BTW makes 900 on pump gas!!!!!!!!!

Displacement: 500ci
Block: GM Production LS2; modified by ERL with a deck plate and pressed sleeves
Bore: 4.202"
Stroke: 4.500"
Pistons: Wiseco
Piston Rings: Total Seal 1/16, 1/16, 3mm
Connecting Rods: Carillo Pro A-Beam 6.800"
Compression: 10.3:1
Camshaft: Competition Cams Hydraulic Roller
Camshaft Duration: 242/256 @.050"
Lift Intake: .615"
Lift Exhaust .580"
Lobe Seperation: in the engine at 114°
Heads: LS7
Intake Flow: 395 CFM @ .700
Exhaust Flow: 235 CFM @ .600
Combustion Chamber: 70cc
Intake: LS7
Computer: Stock GM
Injectors: 48lb.
Throttle Body: Nick Williams 90mm

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Marv, whats wrong with a car that stands on the bumper and then shuts down mid track and the takes off again??? HA HA I know what you mean. The only reason I did not go bigger on my engine is that I want to keep the longer life vs the shorter piston.
For racing I say stroker that engine and run big...

[J-Rod#7]

Originally Posted by GMR-PERFORMANCE

Marv, whats wrong with a car that stands on the bumper and then shuts down mid track and the takes off again??? HA HA I know what you mean. The only reason I did not go bigger on my engine is that I want to keep the longer life vs the shorter piston.
For racing I say stroker that engine and run big...

Ok cool! So this leads me to my next question. I should i go with an aluminum block or iron? The engine will be supercharged or done up with twin turbos depending on how low a profile i decide i wanna maintain.

[Wild83C10]

I saw you post in another thread that your #1 concern is handling, so if that is the case, the lighter the engine the better the handling.
If your going turbo and 600hp is your goal just do a 4.8 or a 5.3 LS, thats an easy and cheap 600hp.

[djracer]

go ls or big block.

[Super73]

J-Rod,

What is the fastest thing you have personally owned and driven?

Jumping stright in to a twin turbo or big blower car/truck is not as easy as stabing and steering. Now if your wishing to start light with the boost down and work your way up, cool. I have seen too many people think that it is easy to do and don't. Start light but built strong and you will have fun for a long time.

Now to the rest of it Marv can give you a ton of info on Gen 1 SBC.. Kevin (DJ) and Regan can probably keep things in order for big block stuff. As far as LS, Start with an LS3 block as it has the biggest bore and will let the heads move the most amount of air. If your are going to boost it, either use the stock crank or put a 4" crank in it, don't use a 4.10" as the wrist pin moves up the piston skirt weakening it. As far as heads go, Trick fFlow, SFR and Advanced Inductions (The head design used to be ETP's and are awesome heads but pricey).

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Hey Super, I spoke with him on... Gave him some specs on the LS set ups. As well my buddy called me over the weekend on his 2010 Z28. It made just over 610 at the Rear wheels with a whiple on pump gas. They installed a set of long tube headers and that was it the rest box stock and 8 lbs of boost. Just think what a good set of heads, cam and more boost would offer and maybe a 50/50 mix would lay down. I can see high 600 at the tires and such a basic set up. Meaning that the engine would be into the 750+ range. Gotta love the LS egnines.

You should throw your engine combo up as that is impressive for a flying brick LOL .

Give me a ring as well my 383 went south building a 406 now

[502ms]

GMR, was your 383 a crate motor?
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[68GMCCustom]

You don't mention budget? Like how much on the drivetrain? $10k? more? less? Something in between?

go LSx....4L80 for OD auto. TKO or T56 for a stick.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

No my 383 was not a crate engine.. This post is a while ago...

[Vortecpro]

Originally Posted by J-Rod#7

HI! I'm a newbie so please forgive me. I have just recently acquired a 67 sidestep (no engine/no trans). I'm building this truck to go straight to the track...I'm a speed freak that needs an adrenaline fix. Speeding tickets are starting to rack up and not to mention they crush your car/truck for street racing in Cali...Anywho, i was wondering if anyone has any suggestion on which engine is better for consistent and dependable drag racing? The 383 or the 408 stroker motor?
Any advice for a matching race transmission couldn't hurt either. Please and thank you for any and all suggestions.

A well done 406 will rape a 383, best bang for the buck. Often you will hear people say a 400 runs hot, well thats ridiculous. Go 406 and dont look back.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I have a Dart SHP block no issues with cooling at all.. LOL I do have an extra 509 400 virgin bore block that is sitting.

[C20-67_N_MO]

Originally Posted by djracer

go ls or big block.

See! Now this is where I want to go! LS just breathes so much easier than the all the Gen Xs before them, PERIOD.

And to me I would think weight less than the BBC would.

Originally Posted by Vortecpro

A well done 406 will rape a 383, best bang for the buck. Often you will hear people say a 400 runs hot, well thats ridiculous. Go 406 and dont look back.

Love me some 400s!

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

If I had not had the parts for the old engine I would go LS all the way, and be happy to take on the big block challangers in the process... The 500 CI LS engines are killers , having ridden in cars with them and driven them, you would swear that it was a 700 + CI BB under the hood.

I plan on selling my old short block KB 742 as I am going to build a new 500+ CI LS motor once the truck project is done. the new truck HA HA a 59 EL will be the vehicle of choice... Down and dirty no frills drag car with a LS .....

[68GMCCustom]

500+.....I've seen more 400's then 500's....and that pretty much requires either the GMPP LSX tall deck block or similar from RHS, World, etc.?

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

By increasing the LS2's deck height from 9.240 to 10.200 inches, ERL's Super Deck II block can swallow up a 4.500-inch stroke. Combined with a 4.202-inch bore, the result is 500 delicious cubes. Considering the Gen IV's bore spacing of 4.400 inches, that much bore may seem to push the envelope of strength on paper, but ERL has done its homework. "We use a Darton ductile iron sleeve, which is three times stronger than stock," explains Sean Ragains of ERL. "Also, our deck plate is designed so that when you torque down the head bolts, they apply clamping pressure right at the top of the cylinder sleeves instead of the deck surface. This directs pressure to a smaller surface area, which results in greater clamping force. The truss design of our deck plate also transmits loads below the deck surface and between the cylinder bores. The result of all this is an extremely strong block with excellent head gasket seal."

This was car craft, write up, this is just the tip of what you can do. THere are several 510 LS vettes out there making 800 HP on pump N/A engines, these are not boosted in any way..

Local Guy that shows up at the track once in a great while( We all know he is a street racer...but that his gig) anyways that firebird is a 482 LS( I think its a 482 or 486) but he is running 8 psi of boost. It runs in the low 8 second area.. I spoke with him about the fuel he runs , stated clearly pump gas. Engine is up in the 1000+ hp level.. Not hard to wrap your mind around when you think about those Buick GNs making 1400 on 6 cylinders now that is cooking.

I tried to find the post about the guy with the 510 engine on boost with pump gas & race fuel ... STUPID power making in the 3000 level... on race , maybe I can find that old link... Funny though the kind of power that can be had today is outstanding... The ford guys with whipples are making some huge power as well.. if your a ford guy. Me I like to see cars or trucks go fast...


Give me a year to get my 62 dialed in , and I will be on the hunt for a 59

[68GMCCustom]

Interesting....but the World Products Warhawk aluminum block has crank clearance for a 4.50" stroke...and the RHS LS Race aluminum block's raised cam centerline allows for accommodations for up to a 4.60" stroke.

I'll probably be satisfied with the GMPP LSX standard deck iron block, and about 427ci or so.

Warhawk specs:

TECHNICAL SPECS

Material: A357-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy
Deck Heights: 9.240" OR 9.800" (.600" minimum deck thickness)
Motor Mounts: LS1 and early small block Chevy
Head Studs: Provisions to use 2 extra studs per cylinder (optional)
Bore Sizes: 4.000" and 4.125" (w/.100" dry sleeves & .300" support
Cam Bores: Can be machined up to 60mm
Stud Holes: Counterbored to eliminate distortion
Components: Accommodates all standard GM LS-series
Oil Systems: Can accommodate dry sump (scavenge p/u at rear)
Crank Clearance: 4.500" stroke
Main Caps: Billet steel C5R-style with 200,000 psi ARP fasteners
Lubrication: Priority main (feeds crankshaft first and top-end last)
Weight: Approximately 130 lbs. with sleeves

worldcastings.com/products/warhawk-ls-aluminum-block

RHS LS Race Block specs:

Designed from heavy-duty A357-T6 aluminum material
Siamese cast bore walls (4.100” – 4.165”) with press-in spun cast iron liners
Available in standard (9.240” or 9.250”) & tall (9.750” or 9.760”) deck heights with beefy deck thickness (.500” standard/.750” tall deck); standard (5.87”) & tall (6.38”) deck cylinder sleeves available
Extra long liners for standard (5.87”) & tall (6.38”) decks
“Long arm friendly” design – Accommodations for up to 4.6” stroke with standard rod pin diameters (2.100”) & oversized 60mm camshaft
Designed for clearance – side oil galley moved outboard & engineered rod clearance come standard
Raised cam centerline (.388”/9.86mm) to allow larger stroke; 2 extra links in the timing chain – Timing sets available from COMP Cams®
Bay-to-bay breathing improved with increased side window
area versus LSX & LS7
Significantly increased windage passage area under bores & around caps over LS7/LSX engines
6 head bolt design with full water jacket around the cylinders (based on LS7 design)
Extra large windows in valley for access to inboard “6th” head bolt
Main Cap surface area maximized at mating surface & large fillets from cap to cross bolts for added strength

racingheadservice.com/lsblock/BlockSpecs.

[C20-67_N_MO]

Great discussion guys!

All I know is LSx engines are the bomb and want to learn as much as I can before making a knownledgable choice for my project.

Continue on!