Trying to buy only once.

[BustedTruck]

Ok I have read the handling threads, and I am ready to pull the trigger on some new suspension. I like the hotchkis kit, and no limit makes some really nice stuff, and then there is ride tech. I have read great reviews on all. My problem is, its gonna take a small fortune to buy the new suspension. I only want to buy once and get the best handling possible. I really want to try some autocross in the future. I wish someone like classic trucks would do a shoot out on all the major brands. I guess I would like to hear from the manufacturers why their product is superior or from others with knowledge of the different systems.

[OJ1988]

All are great, of course comparing air ride to static is apples to oranges.

All are great. If you want ta adjust ride height on the fly get air ride, if not, then get either of the others.

[tubbedII]

I think it's all in what your ultimate goal is and how deep your pockets are/or how much you're willing to spend.

For going all out, I would think a full frame swap to be best. (No Limit or Scots does this)
Bolt on would be Hotchkis (I don't know if full frames handle better, but they should at least be more ridged and come with added features that the Hotchkis doesn't)
No Limit isn't in full production on their bolt-on parts for the C10, but once they are it'd be something to look into.
Other than that, you'll get better handling by doing some other bolt ons (spindles, springs, sways, etc...) that are common for everyone to do just have a truck that handles like a newer vehicle. Given you're only looking to "buy once" for future autocross, these things may not be the best options.

[SCOTI]

Currently marketed options would put Hotchkis @ the top of the list for a bolt-on, performance based, 'kit'.

Ride Tech is really working toward updating the 'performance' aspect of their product lines but the 6x-72 truck kits are still a ways from equaling the TVS system.

No Limit is definitely challenging w/their newest products. I really like how Rob discusses options & possibilities w/the members of this board. We always benefit from grassroots guys like him....

Porterbuilt is coming along w/his new Touring style Dropmember that is geared toward perfomance 1st; not laying frame.


It boils down to budget, schedule, abilities, & your ultimate goal.

[BustedTruck]

Well I think I am going to have to wait a little while longer. They're are lots of good things in the works so with more time than money it won't hurt. Thanks for your input.

[andrewmp6]

Porterbuilt did have a c4 dropmember that wouldn't lay frame but used c4 corvette a arms and spindles.He was working on a c5 one but no idea when it be done.

[Robznob11]

You might look into hot rods to hell for out back they are ahead of the pack on truck arm setups
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[BustedTruck]

That hot rods to hell kit is pretty cool. I would like to see some pics of it installed.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by BustedTruck

That hot rods to hell kit is pretty cool. I would like to see some pics of it installed.

Not much different vs. what's already under these trucks. The springs are on screw jacks for adjustment & the Panhard bar is adjustable as well.

[robnolimit]

More info on your direction would help. Air or coil? In texas at the Goodguys show last weekend I spent a lot of time with the Ridetech guys. Tony mentioned that they are considering an update to thier lower arm. In the 'caster' direction, by possibly moving the lower ball joint forward. We discussed this a bit, but they are really busy, so no timeline as of yet. They are about a dozen C-10's in the country that are quick on an auto-x coarse. (if I miss count it's cause I haven't seen it) They are running Ridetech, No Limit, Hotchkis, and a few others I'm sure. The really fast guys may have modified what came in the box. But the knowledge these companies gain is directed back into thier parts, and the performance gap is growing. Those companies that aren't out there pushing the limits of their parts, aren't learning where to improve. They become static, and fall farther behind. Anyone can say that there parts work great, but if they never really push them and compare, how do they really know how they stack up? Set a direction, set a budget, and start to learn what's really working. The Peach state musclecar Challenge is close, and there will be some there to check out. I've laid out some basic approach ideas in the 'make it handle' forum, there's a lot to go threw, but it's worth it.

[Robznob11]

Hth kit. I talked to this guy quite extensive. Looks are decieveing i have the cpp drop member wich sposidly corrects pinion on droped trucks mine is now 6* up thats bad to correct i have bought bolt on brackets that come on ece drop members theres is left in stock location. I will have to cut welded ones off. Now hotchkis sells what they call a anti squat kit that actually does the same thing as cpp member. Supposidly helps hook up rear end after talkin to hth i find that going up on the front of the arm is bad for ic. It will make the rear try to come see the front. They go down to achieve the slot car handeling and use jacks to make it hook. They shoot for the rear bars to run at 1* up hill as apposed to ground mine with the cpp run at 6* just like the pinion. The trick is getting suspension angles correct then set pinion angles. All must be done with the wheels and tires your running at full weight and at ride hight and angles are relitive to leval ground. Do a search for ohare pinion angle to get a better understanding. Renember many places offef bolt ones for ease of the diy some offer bolt ons for true preformance and while an anti squat kit may be a quick easy way to hit the rears harder it may not be optimum. For corners. Also moving the arm mount may seem the most logical since the rear is moveing up but that may not be the case. I plan on doing a real world test. I'm leaveing the cpp member as is for now but if it is squirly i already have new brackets and then i can play with th ic and find the best spot. Im also taking into consideration that my engine is a lsx and set back 2.5 further than any bolt in brackets you can buy so that will change mi ic and weight transfer. Ps sorry for jacking the thread its just more info for your decision. Rob
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[Robznob11]

Ps guys sorry for all the type-os this Android is giving me fits
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[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Ps guys sorry for all the type-os this Android is giving me fits

I got dizzy on the 1st attempt reading it.... 2nd time around I was good to go.

[jimmydean]

Between Rob's truck and the '69 rolling Hotchkis from a results standpoint, it's clear that they are building and developing kits that push trucks further than trucks have been thought to go.

Nate's C4 Dropmember was the first thing I ever saw with the idea of performance in mind. But this last year there have been a lot of progress and we all as truck owners benefit.

Figure a budget, double it, then hope for the best.

[BustedTruck]

Thanks for your input Rob. I didn't even know about The Peach state musclecar Challenge. I will be attending this next year. I went to the run through the hills this year & it was my first time watching an autocross. Needless to say I am hooked. Those guys looked like they were having so much fun. I want to try it out. I am willing to pay for products that work, but trying to get the best bang for my buck. Ive read through your thread and I need to go back and read again. I will probably be refering back to it many more times. I think I just need to get a little more educated about the whole thing.

[OJ1988]

Read the make it handle thread, there are some people that disagree with HTH control arm angle.

[robnolimit]

OK, I guess I'm out of the loop. Who is Hth?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

OK, I guess I'm out of the loop. Who is Hth?

Hotrods To Hell (truck arm suspension kits)
http://www.hotrodstohell.net/cars_from_hell/index.htm

[Robznob11]

Not to get into a debate But I think a company that designs suspension soley on 1 design and many platforms probably knows the best angle they made their name and livelihood on the truck arm design. We must Also consider all vehicles are different instant center changes with engine packages and location any weight added to the truck ride height
and nearly every other thing you can think
that's what the best setups are modified bolt ons
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[OJ1988]

HTH says lower the control arm mounts.

Rob at no limit says raise them.

CPP says raise them.

No for sure, but I bet Porterbuilt says raise them.



I have always wondered about HTH. You never here much about them, here or anywhere else. According to them they got it all figured out, and they have the best set up. I wonder why they have not caught on more?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by OJ1988

HTH says lower the control arm mounts.

Rob at no limit says raise them.

CPP says raise them.

No for sure, but I bet Porterbuilt says raise them.



I have always wondered about HTH. You never here much about them, here or anywhere else. According to them they got it all figured out, and they have the best set up. I wonder why they have not caught on more?

The need to raise or lower should/would be dependent on the ride height & pinion angle.

[PBFAB.COM]

[QUOTE=OJ1988;4939991]HTH says lower the control arm mounts.

Rob at no limit says raise them.

CPP says raise them.

No for sure, but I bet Porterbuilt says raise them.

QUOTE]

As mentioned by SCOTI, the need to relocate the front pivots has to do with where you want the instant center to be located. Different applications will call for a different mounting location.

On most lowered applications, you would be raising the front pivots.

[OJ1988]

Esactly. When discussing handling, I don't think anyone is going to raise their truck to higher than stock settings. Most if not all will lower the truck for improved handling.

If you lower the truck you need to raise the control arm mounts.

HTH sell a kit with lowering springs and weight jacks to improve handling, but they are telling people to lower the mounts too.

[Robznob11]

Okay guys let me clarify a little further I don't know thinat that tell everyone to lower the bars After installing my cpp Crossmember my opinion was up 6 I talked to early classic enterprises I found that they leave their mounts stock posetion I did not want to use 4degree wedges so I called h 2 h he made a big deal out of going up he recommends the bars be up 1 degree as compared to the ground I have not done anything because I don't know who knows what if it was just h 2 h I would not second guess everyone else but why does e c e leave there's in the stock location my tail shaft noses down 2 degrees my pinion noses up 6 degrees that's not gonna work
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[Hotchkis]

Thanks for all the kind words about Hotchkis products. We get great feedback from customers using our TVS on their trucks. The R&D has really paid off.

Mike’s C10 has been getting some great track time lately and showing Camaros and Corvettes a thing or two.

2011, 08-31, C10 Truck on The Streets of Willow,...