Smog

[AirSpeed]

I sold my 87 K5 to a kid I know, he smogged it last week and was told it almost passed but would have to be taken to a Gold Star smog station after he fixed a few issues like the plugs & wires, change oil, basic tune up stuff. Today he was told by the gold star station that it passed emissions but he couldn't give him a cert because it blew a puff of white smoke when he hit the gas. The guy tells him he might need the heads done, new EGR, and maybe a new cat converter. The kid and I have already put a lot into this thing, he can't afford new heads right now and I'm already out way too much on it as well, I gave it to him for $1500 and put half that much back into it to help the kid out. Anyone have any experience with these Gold Star smog stations? Any ideas how to get it to pass without spending more money? By the way the kid and I agreed he would take care of the smog. Thanks for any suggestions, this is a good, hard working kid, kinda rare these days, I really want to help him out.
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[Sillyoldman]

I can't help but have to say kudos to you.

[So.Cal.Super]

As much as I hate to do it, I hate CA smog more, what about some no smoke in the oil just to get it to pass? I'd rather see a safety inspection for the junkers I run into on the highway then smog.

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by So.Cal.Super

As much as I hate to do it, I hate CA smog more, what about some no smoke in the oil just to get it to pass? I'd rather see a safety inspection for the junkers I run into on the highway then smog.

Does that stuff actually work? I've seen it before but never had the occasion to use it. The thing runs really good, it's only got 130 thousand easy miles on it and I took really good care of it. It really sucks the tech was so anal to fail it over a puff of smoke! It only did it once when he revved it. Thanks!
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[So.Cal.Super]

I'm not sure if it does, only heard of people using it. was it white smoke, blue smoke? that's probably a good question to ask first, was the truck hot when you tested it? I used to always get my oil changed, fill up with premium, run it down the freeway and when i got to the smog place I would leave it idol until they were ready. it's such a pain and especially when your trying to do something nice for this kid. Maybe try a different shop? never heard of this Gold star, are they a test only station or a test and repair? and does it puff every time you hit the gas?

[MusicMan70]

From CA DMV

Gold Shield Program Fact Sheet

Scheduled to end in 2013 and will be replaced by STAR Test Only and STAR Test and Repair stations.
STAR Performance Standards (Starts 2013)

November 2010

The Gold Shield Program is designed to make the Smog Check Program more convenient for consumers. It allows a licensed Smog Check station, that meets higher performance standards to provide a variety of inspection and repair services to California consumers. In addition to the regular Smog Check inspection and repair services, Gold Shield stations can inspect and certify "Directed Vehicles," issue certificates to "Gross Polluters," and perform state subsidized repairs through the Consumer Assistance Program.

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by So.Cal.Super

I'm not sure if it does, only heard of people using it. was it white smoke, blue smoke? that's probably a good question to ask first, was the truck hot when you tested it? I used to always get my oil changed, fill up with premium, run it down the freeway and when i got to the smog place I would leave it idol until they were ready. it's such a pain and especially when your trying to do something nice for this kid. Maybe try a different shop? never heard of this Gold star, are they a test only station or a test and repair? and does it puff every time you hit the gas?

He drove 75 miles to the smog place and it's over 100 degrees today, (Redding Ca.) we changed the oil twice this week, once six days ago and again last night. It's got all new plugs & wires, new air filter. It doesn't smoke all the time, once in awhile when it's first started and when it's been idling a long time and the peddle slapped. It's a white puff of smoke, it doesn't smoke going down the road, I've driven behind it and it runs clean. I bought it almost new, it had 18000 when I got it and it always ran great, I was always tinkering with it, changed the oil religiously and never beat on it at all.
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[AirSpeed]

The smog guy now seems to think some valve seals will most likely take care of it, I've never done it but it seems pretty straight forward. If its nothing more than pulling the valve covers, rockers and holding the valves up, we could take care of it easily (an assumption) what surprises would I find putting seals on it? Special tools other than a spring compressor? Thanks!
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[trac209]

You'll need a plug hole fitting to hook up an air line to hold up the valves. Other than that it's a straight forward job. You could try using some 20/50 oil to cut the slight valve leaking down enough to pass if it's that close. I have used a product called engine restore in the past and it has cut down oil use albeit temporarily. Good on you for being a helpfull seller I'm sure the kid apreciates it.
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[oldspowered67C10]

Truthfully, Id try a different station, not all smog techs are all that strict on the visible smoke test. Unless the laws have changed you dont have to get it repaired at a Gold Shield station, it can be done at a test and repair station also. Really the deal with the Gold Shield stations is that theyre allowed to repair as well as certify a car that is a test-only car while a non-Gold shield test and repair can do the repairs but they cant certify it, after repairs it will have to be certified at a test-only station.

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by trac209

You'll need a plug hole fitting to hook up an air line to hold up the valves. Other than that it's a straight forward job. You could try using some 20/50 oil to cut the slight valve leaking down enough to pass if it's that close. I have used a product called engine restore in the past and it has cut down oil use albeit temporarily. Good on you for being a helpfull seller I'm sure the kid apreciates it.
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Thanks for the advice, I assume I wont want to put too much air pressure in the cylinder, could the air pressure turn over the engine? Do I need to have it on a specific stroke, compression stroke? I am installing the seals tomorrow and can use all the advice I can get! Thanks again for the suggestions, we may use all of them! I don't want him to fail smog again if possible!
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[Lee H]

What weight oil is in it? I'd put a straight weight oil in it, at least 40 or more. Add a bottle of hyperlube or Lucas stop leak. Use a different test only station. That with a fresh tune up will probably pass. With the new visual "is it smoking" rule, your truck is on the very slippery slope and a rebuild, at least a valve job, is in it's future. Also all smog test results are automatically, electronically sent to the DMV, they can see all tests and the results.

[AirSpeed]

Thanks all! We will give these ideas a try and see what happens. I will let you know if it is successful. Thanks!
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[GASoline71]

If it's "white"... it's prolly water vapor. If it's "bluish white"... it's oil. Which is prolly what it is. Which would be normal for a vehicle that old with probably a lot of miles. Valve seals could do it for ya, to get you by this year. But you might be lookin' at new valve guides or a re-ring in the future.

Gary

[trac209]

Just pull all the rocker arms off and plugs out and use your compressor fitting in the cyl your going to do. Do one cyl at a time (do not remove springs before chamber is full of air).you only need about 70 psi to hold the valves up but more is ok if they are a bit leaky.the engine shouldn't turn at least I have never seen one do it. Another old trick is to stuff some nylon rope in there to hold valves up but I dont like that one due to it could get stuck or leave shreds behind. Good luck
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[AirSpeed]

We changed the valve seals today, went well until I tried out the piece of crap spring compressor I just bought! One of the hooks was just a little too long (or the other too short of course) and it kept slipping off. Don't buy cheap spring compresors! Anyway I got it too work after a little practice. The old seals were split, dried up or completely gone. The rockers and top of the head and inside valve covers were spotless clean,I was surprised how clean it was. the valve stems seemed very tight, I had compressed air holding them up but I couldnt feel any play in the valve guides. I put it back together and started it up getting a single puff of smoke then nothing, just "clean" exhaust. We let it sit for a couple hours and started it again and still no smoke. Hopefully that will help it pass smog this time. He is going to try out some Restore and change the oil with some 50 wt, it's been hot here so I don't think it will hurt anything. Thanks for the advice everyone! I will let you know what happens when he takes it back to the smog guy.
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[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by trac209

Just pull all the rocker arms off and plugs out and use your compressor fitting in the cyl your going to do. Do one cyl at a time (do not remove springs before chamber is full of air).you only need about 70 psi to hold the valves up but more is ok if they are a bit leaky.the engine shouldn't turn at least I have never seen one do it. Another old trick is to stuff some nylon rope in there to hold valves up but I dont like that one due to it could get stuck or leave shreds behind. Good luck
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Thanks, I used air and worked great, the engine did turn over, only on two cylinders, it freaked me out the first time, I knew it could happen but didn't think about it until it did, my hand was on the AC compressor pulley when the piston went down, no harm, the belt only moved a few inches and my hand was on top. Thanks again! Aaron
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[trac209]

Glad it worked out,I'm sure your good to go at your next smog test.
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[AirSpeed]

Smog tests suck! We changed the valve seals, EGR valve, changed the oil, all the things the smog guy told us to do, things he said would cure the issues. This morning the kid took it back and it failed again, this is the fourth time, the first test locally and three "gold star" tests, now the smog guy says a new cat converter will fix it! This sucks, each trip to the gold star smog shop cost over $100 with gas and the cost of the test. We've spent at least $200 on parts and now have to spend another $100 for a new catalytic converter and another $100 for gas and another test. It's going to end up costing $1000 by the time it's all over and we don't even know if a new catalytic converter will fix the problem! I'm thinking he should sell the damn thing or part it out at this point!
Do I have to buy a specific converter or can I get one out of a similar sized, low mile wrecked truck at the junk yard? I have found a few universal converters for around $50, will one of these work or should we just go for the specific model made for the truck? Any suggestions or recomendations would be GREATLY appreciated! Maybe I should compress the exhaust out of my wife's car, it had zero emmisions it's last test, put it in a bottle and pipe it to the K5s exhaust, heck I could make some fake pipes and pump the bottled exhaust into it! I am so glad my trucks never need smog! Another reason to drive old trucks! Thanks all! Again, any suggestions, no matter how ridiculous will be considered at this point!
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[So.Cal.Super]

was it the puff of smoke that failed it again?

[AirSpeed]

No, the truck doesn't smoke at all since we changed the valve seals, not a single puff of smoke! I'm not sure the specific reason for the failure this time, I'm waiting for the kid to get back with the printout, it's a four hour round trip to the smog shop.
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[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by So.Cal.Super

was it the puff of smoke that failed it again?

No smoke at all, last time the smog guy said it passed emissions but the smoke failed it, this time no smoke but it failed emissions! Ugh!!!
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[So.Cal.Super]

I wish you the best, I know your trying to help the kid and this sucks. let us know what you find out.

[406 Q-ship]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

Smog tests suck! We changed the valve seals, EGR valve, changed the oil, all the things the smog guy told us to do, things he said would cure the issues. This morning the kid took it back and it failed again, this is the fourth time, the first test locally and three "gold star" tests, now the smog guy says a new cat converter will fix it! This sucks, each trip to the gold star smog shop cost over $100 with gas and the cost of the test. We've spent at least $200 on parts and now have to spend another $100 for a new catalytic converter and another $100 for gas and another test. It's going to end up costing $1000 by the time it's all over and we don't even know if a new catalytic converter will fix the problem! I'm thinking he should sell the damn thing or part it out at this point!
Do I have to buy a specific converter or can I get one out of a similar sized, low mile wrecked truck at the junk yard? I have found a few universal converters for around $50, will one of these work or should we just go for the specific model made for the truck? Any suggestions or recomendations would be GREATLY appreciated! Maybe I should compress the exhaust out of my wife's car, it had zero emmisions it's last test, put it in a bottle and pipe it to the K5s exhaust, heck I could make some fake pipes and pump the bottled exhaust into it! I am so glad my trucks never need smog! Another reason to drive old trucks! Thanks all! Again, any suggestions, no matter how ridiculous will be considered at this point!
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I got bad news for ya, wrecking yards will not and cannot sell cats off a used vehicle (it is federal not a cali thing either). If it passed the sniffer before then it was either the cat is on its last legs (the old prints old can tell you that (it will be close to the standards). A trick is to throw some alcohol in the tank before the test, it will lean the mixture out and get it throw without needing a catalytic. Valve adjustment is probably closer to right, it is the only thing messed with since it last passed. What is it failing? HC CO, or NOX

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

I got bad news for ya, wrecking yards will not and cannot sell cats off a used vehicle (it is federal not a cali thing either). If it passed the sniffer before then it was either the cat is on its last legs (the old prints old can tell you that (it will be close to the standards). A trick is to throw some alcohol in the tank before the test, it will lean the mixture out and get it throw without needing a catalytic. Valve adjustment is probably closer to right, it is the only thing messed with since it last passed. What is it failing? HC CO, or NOX

I bought a new cat and installed it last night, he took it in this morning and it didn't help a bit. Mr Smog guy is now telling the kid the valves need to be adjusted again. Haven't heard about the alcohol trick, might have to try that next time. Some one else suggested acetone in the gas, havent tried that one either. Smog guy did a pre test, said too many hydrocarbons. Thanks.
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