looking at a suburban

[82ccshorty]

I have found this 1986 suburban. i cant really tell by the pictures but i think its a 3/4. it a 4x4 lifted 6inchs on 35 inch superswampers and it has a 4bt swap. its flat black and it needs assembling. its apart from being painted. the hood is missing and when i say assembling it needs just like lights and grille and bumpers not completely apart. The seller said he had never seen/heard the 4bt run. The body looks to be in amazing shape but i need some advice as far as what to look for and i dont know anything about making a 4bt run, is that hard to do? What do you guys think?

[Edahall]

Is the engine hooked up to the transmission and if so, what transmission is behind that engine?

Does the seller have the rest of the parts to complete the conversion. I don't see any turbo, crossover pipe, fan, power steering pump, etc in the picture.

IMO, a 6BT would be better for this application. 4BT's are worth more so you could probably be money ahead to do the trade.

[82ccshorty]

I just asked. The seller says in the descripsion "I have a 86 suburban with barn doors, it has a 6" lift 35" super swampers the tires has about 90 to 95% trend left the truck is clean inside and**and no rust the 4 wheel drive works without no problems their is no hood it had been stolen. As you can can see from the*picture the truck will still need to be put*back together was in the process and had a hiccup all the parts are there just need*to*gaskets and oil if you have question just ask"
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[68Timber]

It's awesome but a long way from running. You shouldn't have any trouble finding 4bt swap threads to learn from if you're willing to do the work yourself although I don't recall seeing one here.

[sbc383rulz]

looks awful lot like a 1/2 ton, that exhaust manifold looks like a industrial manifold so it could be the wrong pump on that engine for a highway application. you also didnt mention a price. go to 4btswaps.com and check in there, they have a HUGE resource for this engine.

[cal30_sniper]

Originally Posted by sbc383rulz

looks awful lot like a 1/2 ton, that exhaust manifold looks like a industrial manifold so it could be the wrong pump on that engine for a highway application. you also didnt mention a price. go to 4btswaps.com and check in there, they have a HUGE resource for this engine.

It would have to be a 1/2 ton with 8-lug axle swaps then. Since there's no other external indicator for a 1/2 ton, I'm not certain why you'd think that?

Given the 8 lugs, it's most likely a 3/4 ton. Someone that went to the trouble of doing the other stuff might have swapped the axles too though. You'd have to check the VIN to be certain. For an 86, the 6th digit will be a "1" for 1/2 ton or a "2" for 3/4 ton.

-cal30sniper

[82ccshorty]

Its a 2 so it's a 3/4
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[cal30_sniper]

Nice. That's an awful heavy truck for a 4BT though. I'd consider a 12V swap if I were you. It's going to be a lot of work putting that 4BT back together, might as well put the same amount of work into getting something that will actually make it get up and run.

[sbc383rulz]

my bad it is a 3/4, small computer screen made it look like a 6 lug!
honestly it depends on what you are doing with it if the 4bt will work, if you tow a big trailer get e 6bt. if its going to get nothing more than people and you dont mind turning the pump up a little the 4bt should be fine. the 4bt was put in bread trucks that weight more than suburbans by a long shot!! it wont be fast unless you throw ALOT of money at that engine. try 4btswaps.com.

[sbc383rulz]

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...d-Wagoneer-4bt

not a sub but a grand wagoneer isnt much lighter. quite a few guys on there doing that swap into fullsize trucks.

[cal30_sniper]

Originally Posted by sbc383rulz

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...d-Wagoneer-4bt

not a sub but a grand wagoneer isnt much lighter. quite a few guys on there doing that swap into fullsize trucks.

There's more difference than you would think. The sources I found put the dry weight of the Grand Wagoneer between 4400-4500 lbs. The dry weight on my '86 3/4 burb is 5700 lbs. Gross weight for the Wagoneer is 6200lbs. It's listed as 7200 for my 3/4 ton. Those 3/4 burbs are HEAVY, and that one he's got is packing some massive tires too. The weight difference is almost like parking a small car in the back of the Wagoneer.

That being said, I'm not saying it wont work, I'm just saying it won't get out of its own way. If you have absolutely no desire for acceleration or passing power, the 4BT will move the vehicle around just fine. Just don't expect to get anywhere fast.

[Edahall]

The biggest complaint with the 4bt are that they are unbalanced, noisy and rattly. But their smaller size does fit into the engine compartment much more easily and being that they are lighter weight makes it easier on the front suspension.

[kwin]

Originally Posted by Edahall

The biggest complaint with the 4bt are that they are unbalanced, noisy and rattly. But their smaller size does fit into the engine compartment much more easily and being that they are lighter weight makes it easier on the front suspension.

They are loud and will rattle your fillings out if you have any!

[sbc383rulz]

your missing the point, the 4bt came factory in bread trucks that weight alot more than your suburbans GVWR. the comparable 4BD from isuzu that i know a little more about the trucks has a gvwr of over 15K. im not saying it will be fast but it will keep up with a stock 6.2 i would imagine, do a little work to the cummins it will make more low end torque than a 6.2 is capable of producing due to engine design.

[cal30_sniper]

Originally Posted by sbc383rulz

your missing the point, the 4bt came factory in bread trucks that weight alot more than your suburbans GVWR. the comparable 4BD from isuzu that i know a little more about the trucks has a gvwr of over 15K. im not saying it will be fast but it will keep up with a stock 6.2 i would imagine, do a little work to the cummins it will make more low end torque than a 6.2 is capable of producing due to engine design.

I'm not missing your point. We're talking about a 105hp engine here. You keep bringing up this bread truck thing. Sure, it will get a bread truck to move around at the speeds you would expect a bread truck to move around at: Slow. I don't know of anyone that wants to be limited to crawling speed in something they might drive very often. Even the 6.2L in the late 80's burbs had nearly 150 hp. Sure it's only a 50hp difference, but that also equals a 150% increase over the 4BT. And the 6.2L is not known for going anywhere fast even then.

4BT swaps are awesome in Jeeps and light trucks. I looked into a 4BT burban swap back when I ended up going with the 350 Vortec. From what I found on the 4BT, there's no way you could convince me to put one in a full size truck. It makes a lot of torque down low compared to engines similar to its own size. Then again, it still weighs as much as a BBC, so it's only small in displacement. If you wouldn't consider putting a 305 in your 3/4 ton suburban, you probably wouldn't want a 4BT either.

[riz]

How much is he asking for it? It looks like a solid 3/4 ton with nice tires. If the price is right, pull the 4bt and drop in a 350. It looks nice but it all depends on the price.

RIZ

[jmack91z28]

Yeah, he's not missing your point. Bread trucks were also nothing but aluminum. Ceiling, walls floors, hood. Everything. They are actually really light for their size.

4bt's aren't balanced, they are violent at idle. That's why the vast majority are installed in generator sets and skid steer equipment. You need to make sure that engine didn't come out of one either, cause that injection pump will have to be replaced to be driven well. I've seen guys go through a complete 4bt swap and after driving it they end up selling it.

Go to www.autoworldmt.com They have liquid filled engine mounts and other stuff to help with the 4bt swaps. I've talked to them before, they are highly knowledgeable and do nothing but cummins swaps for a living.

4bt's can be built to put out some power, but at high cost. And at a cost of reliability.

What transmission is in the burb?

[jmack91z28]

I just went and looked at it on Craigslist. Biggest part that scares me is this line:

"motor is a 4BT not sure on year or anything but everything is there to hook up as told by my motor guy"

I'd venture to say it's a project this guy was paying someone else to do and the owner ran out of funds. Looks like there are a lot of loose ends too. I'd talk him down on the price at least.

[68Timber]

A fire breathing 6.0 would suit it well.

[kwin]

If you could get it four four thou, it would be a no brainer. You could not re do a rusty suburban for that money and if you got the 4bt running and didnt like it , they are in demand and fetch good money.
If I were 4000 KMS closer I would buy it!
The early 4bt's have 265 foot pounds, don't sell that short, thats more torque than a 350 will have. I have a 89 6bt with some cheap tweaks and no stock 350 would ever come near it.
My buddy has a similar set up to mine in a old one ton dodge and his favourite pass
time is laying 250 feet of rubber when he leaves his shop for lunch.
265 foot pounds and great economy is a decent combo.

Good luck.

[cal30_sniper]

Keith, an '86 350 in a suburban makes 285 ft-lbs of torque at 2400 rpms. The 4bt makes less than that, and has a much narrower powerband. That 350 can tack on an extra 100 ft-lbs of torque very cheaply, and has a powerband that is literally thousands of RPM wider than the 4bt.

The 6BT is a completely different beast from the 4BT. The 6BT puts out 400+ ft-lbs of torque at 1600 rpm in stock form. Still though, you're fighting a very narrow powerband. The 6BT is also significantly longer, and 200-300 lbs heavier than the 4BT, making it much more of a squeeze in these older trucks.

Irregardless, the 4BT is nowhere near a 6BT, they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence in terms of performance.

[sbc383rulz]

the 6bt non intercooled makes 400ftlb in stock form. but the 4bt can with the turn of a screw make more power than a 6.2.

[sbc383rulz]

either way the truck is a good deal even if you buy it and sell the engine, throw a 350 into it and drive it. the 4bt looks like its probably not a automotive engine looking at the exhaust manifold, that means the pump is probably the wrong governer for road vehicles.

[kwin]

I never said they were in the same league, they are less powerful have significantly less weight. They still have good power potential but more importantly they are cheap to operate and last forever ( don't know of any small blocks that have a reputation for 1000000 miles). Don't know of any small blocks that can run on wvo and save the owner a fortune either.
There are a few 4bts in Grand Wagoneers that I have heard good reviews of.
I still stand by my statement that there is good value in this Suburban and almost no risk.
The differences in the 4bt vs 6bt are documented, still a good deal!

[jmack91z28]

Originally Posted by kwin

I never said they were in the same league, they are less powerful have significantly less weight. They still have good power potential but more importantly they are cheap to operate and last forever ( don't know of any small blocks that have a reputation for 1000000 miles). Don't know of any small blocks that can run on wvo and save the owner a fortune either.
There are a few 4bts in Grand Wagoneers that I have heard good reviews of.
I still stand by my statement that there is good value in this Suburban and almost no risk.
The differences in the 4bt vs 6bt are documented, still a good deal!

There are many small blocks that have documented a million miles.

A gasser can't run on wvo, not really a fair comparison. Diesel can't crank on wvo, the engine has to be up to temp to run it. Most people can only use that stuff on long road trips efficiently. That whole WVO deal has been around for decades, there's a reason anyone hardly uses it.

But there is no arguing that a diesel puts out more power than a gasser. No arguing they are far more efficient per gallon of fuel. Biggest downside to diesels are parts costs and availability.

In my opinion, buying this truck would have very high risk involved. Especially with the previous owner having little to no knowledge on the build.