LS Noob question

[CC69Rat]

Ok, .. I think I'm going to do it fellas.

I'm an old school hot rodder guy, I'm not totally green to building motors but I am pretty green to the LS based engines. I am considering one for my 70 GMC SWB. It will be dropped 4.5 / 6.5 and used for general daily and spirited driving. I have some friends in the local SCCA, so it could see some cones either here or GoodGuys, etc.

Overall cost wise, buildability (If that's even a word) and simplicity of the install for a noob, what's the ideal platform? What would be the easiest way to accomplish this? Example, find a GTO and pull everything. Harness, ECM, pedal, etc .. and it will bolt right in. Easy enough?

(I know it's not that easy)


I see various block IDs, what am I looking for? What's the ideal block to start with? What's the LSx block ? Is that like the 'old school' bowtie blocks?

Seriously, I'm just looking for help understanding and learning. I know nothing about this platform. If you have reading material, I'll gladly read it.

LS1, vs. LS2 for cost? Should I build one or get the 'Connect and Cruise' setup? What auto trans? What cam setup, etc. ? I know, .. use the search .. which I am, I promise. I have been reading for a while just looking for input. If you had $5,000 .. start with ___ block, etc .. thanks.

[shawno72]

I'm in for this ride

[mooseknuckles]

actually it is pretty easy....as far as swaps go.....it depends on whats available to you, you may be able to find complete LS1's or LS2"s ect. or complete vehicles...I had to search for awhile before I found my 6.0/4l80e out of a wrecked van...I think the truck motors are beter suited if you plan on rebuilding, or boostin it...there is also more and more aftermarket parts available everyday...in the meantime you can check out LS1Tech..some great info over there....

[CC69Rat]

Eating an elephant the only way I know how man .. you just gotta ask questions sometimes.

I am saving for it though. If I sell my stepper, I may use $5k or so to go LS in my GMC.

[mooseknuckles]

research it well and that 5g's will go along way....trust me you will not be disapointed... i <3 my 6.0

[69Villa]

well telling u on wat i noe some engines are made of alluminum n others from iron dnt noe wich ones are wich yet also from rebuilding them from my experience on having help rebuilding a old school 350 to a some what newer 4.3l i noe some places in the engine have to be torque dialed in before u really torque them down dats pretty much a lil bit of info i noe of right now

[bohmankid]

You just need to find a complete motor with all accessories and a wiring harness.
You'll need to buy motor mounts specific for your swap.
You'll need to modify your wiring harness. lt1swap.com helps.
Most truck motors (6.0, 5.3, 4.8) have the iron block and love boost, you can pick up one of those for around $1000 complete and finish the project NICELY for another grand.
An LS1 or LS2 have aluminum blocks and cost significantly more. You'll use your entire $5000 on one of these motors. Not worth it to me. BUT hey, if I had the money to blow, I'd do it.
It's just research research research. Google all your questions and ask people and you'll figure everything out.
As for trans, there are many out there but most use the 4l60e with these motors. unless you get a 6.0, those came with 4l80e's but mix and match as much as you'd like. I'm actually using my good old TH400 3 speed

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by CC69Rat

Overall cost wise, buildability (If that's even a word) and simplicity of the install for a noob, what's the ideal platform? What would be the easiest way to accomplish this? Example, find a GTO and pull everything. Harness, ECM, pedal, etc .. and it will bolt right in. Easy enough?

As low as about $2k, up to $10k, but the average swap cost is about $4-6k. That is usually including a number of aftermarket and performance parts. My swap ran close to 6k+,but that included things like new gauges, cam etc etc etc.

Getting a front clip (front half) of a car or truck works, but with websites like car-part.com and similar, you can track down an engine and tranny pretty easily. If you can get it with the tac, and ecm thats a huge bonus (if you want to use DBW). I knew I would be buying a custom harness, which is sometimes a nice idea on a swap. It cost about $150 more than having one modified, but having all new easy to read and easy to run wires seemed worth it.


I see various block IDs, what am I looking for? What's the ideal block to start with? What's the LSx block ? Is that like the 'old school' bowtie blocks?

This depends on how much displacement you want, what year you want etc. The LSX block is a special GM performance block, however it is quite expensive and there have been a number of high-hp failures with them. If you want a custom block, there are a number of companies that do make them if you have the cash to play with. Right now the truck engines, in larger displacement are popular for higher hp swaps. Engines like the 6.0 LQ4, LQ9, are commonly used.

Seriously, I'm just looking for help understanding and learning. I know nothing about this platform. If you have reading material, I'll gladly read it.

LS1, vs. LS2 for cost? Should I build one or get the 'Connect and Cruise' setup? What auto trans? What cam setup, etc. ? I know, .. use the search .. which I am, I promise. I have been reading for a while just looking for input. If you had $5,000 .. start with ___ block, etc .. thanks.

Unless you really need or want the all aluminum engine, most swaps go for the truck engines (which a select few do come all aluminum). Its usually half the cost at least, much easier to find, and usually not beaten to death. Any of the 4.8-6.2 engines are all good motors, and can make good power depending on what kind of build you want.

When you figure out which motor you want, then we can talk cam setups etc.

in red

[C10_ustacould]

Hart_Rod has a LS1/T56 in the for sale section...

[Critter]

There are a LOT of answers to the questions you asked. I think mainly it comes down to personal preference and what you want to do with the truck. To be honest with you, I like the actual LS car motors (LS1, LS2, LS3 etc) but I feel they are WAY over priced for what you are getting. I would much rather get a truck engine. These are the ones that don't actually start with "LS" such as the LQ4 6.0 or the LM7 5.3. Sure they weight another 50lbs or so due to being an iron block instead of aluminum, but when you are putting one in and older vehicle like our trucks does it really matter??? If you want "cheap" reliable LS fun get a complete 5.3/4L60e combo and drop it in. You could get that done for half of your LS budget if you looked in the right spot for you drivetrain. With a little tuning you have a nice 300hp driver that will treat you right for years. If you want to turn up the fun knob a little they can easily be turbo charged or supercharged up into the 550 hp range without even touching the bottom end of the engine. Ultimately the best bang for the buck is the LQ4 6.0 in my humble opinion. Keep asking questions and keep researching. It isn't as hard as you think and ALL the info is already right under your nose.

[OldCreek]

The great thing is that even the "heavier" iron block LS is still lighter than the previous SBC...

If you want an automatic then finding a 5.3/4l60e would probably be the easiest and cheapest to find. Find a engine/tranny combo with all the accessories and wiring and you will be dollars ahead of the game. Careful, these swaps with all of their "little things" can add up!

[69Villa]

i noe Truckinweb.com has a pretty cool 5.3l mild to wild build u might wanna check dat out dats the route ima go to is a 5.3l with 4l80e still gotta do my research tough n there is allot of info out there the thing most confusing to me dat i have seen is the fuel systems people run but still doing the research

[CC69Rat]

How do I spot the LQ4 ? What did it come in? I'm thinking the 6.0 Iron block would be a great foundation. I wouldn't really need an aluminum block.

If I looked at the engine, is it stamped somewhere in the block? The tucks they came in, .. would it be in the VIN? How do I know which one it is, if I find one? I'm going to do some searching, I just want to know what I need to look for to know what I'm getting

What's an LQ9 ? Is that the 6.2? So I could get an LQ4 for example and cam it like an LS3 / Z06 intake, ..etc. etc. ? Are all the parts interchangable from the Iron blocks to the Aluminum Blocks and vise versa?

[mooseknuckles]

iron block, alum. heads....It will have 317 stamped on the heads, 6.ol stamped on the block, drivers side behind alt bracket, the 8th number in the vin will be a "U".....most 2500hd silverados, some 1500's, mine was out of a 2500 gmc van. and most likely will come with the 4l80e...the lq9 is a H.O. version of the lq4, higher compression.....it was available in escalade's and denali's..I believe most parts are interchangeable between the trucks and cars...

[No3Fan4Ever]

Originally Posted by CC69Rat

How do I spot the LQ4 ? What did it come in? I'm thinking the 6.0 Iron block would be a great foundation. I wouldn't really need an aluminum block.

If I looked at the engine, is it stamped somewhere in the block? The tucks they came in, .. would it be in the VIN? How do I know which one it is, if I find one? I'm going to do some searching, I just want to know what I need to look for to know what I'm getting

What's an LQ9 ? Is that the 6.2? So I could get an LQ4 for example and cam it like an LS3 / Z06 intake, ..etc. etc. ? Are all the parts interchangable from the Iron blocks to the Aluminum Blocks and vise versa?

There is alot of info here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...SPrimer/Part2/

That should answer alot of the questions

[Critter]

Originally Posted by CC69Rat

How do I spot the LQ4 ? What did it come in? I'm thinking the 6.0 Iron block would be a great foundation. I wouldn't really need an aluminum block.

If I looked at the engine, is it stamped somewhere in the block? The tucks they came in, .. would it be in the VIN? How do I know which one it is, if I find one? I'm going to do some searching, I just want to know what I need to look for to know what I'm getting

What's an LQ9 ? Is that the 6.2? So I could get an LQ4 for example and cam it like an LS3 / Z06 intake, ..etc. etc. ? Are all the parts interchangeable from the Iron blocks to the Aluminum Blocks and vise versa?

Nine times out of ten if you see an iron block 6.0 it will be an LQ4. Look for "6.0L" to be stamped on the back passenger side of the block (pic #1). I happened to have an LQ4 and LR4 4.8 in the shop so I took some pics. Notice the "4.8/5.3L" on the back of the second block, 5.3s and 4.8 share a block (pic#2). They are virtually identical. It is VERY difficult to tell a 4.8 from a 5.3 especially when it has some miles on it. The only fool proof way that I have found to tell the difference is by finding the etched 8 digit number on the back of the block behind the drivers cylinder head (pic# 3). This is the last 8 digits of the VIN # but those 8 digits by themselves don't do you much good and are usually very hard to read (pic# 4). If you have the full vin to run either from the vehicle computer software or running it through GM etc, you can match the full vin to these last 8 digits that are on the block. Kinda confusing I know. Other wise you can open up the oil pan and run the numbers on the crank shaft to figure out which engine you have. There are a few other methods out there such as a small tab that sticks off the head gasket that will say "4.8" or "5.3" but to be honest I can never read what that tab says. Also when the engines were new the "4.8/5.3" on the back of the block would have a paint mark over whichever engine it was, but usually that is worn off by the time guys like you and me are looking at the motor.

An LQ9 and an LQ4 are both 6.0L and also share a block and are identical other than the pistons and connecting rods. The connecting rods are stronger in an LQ9 and their piston shape gives a higher compression ratio over the LQ4. An LQ4 could either be 300hp if it was out of a truck/suburban/van or it could be 325hp if it was out of a GMC Denali or Hummer H2 (I honestly don't know what is different to account for this 25hp difference). The LQ9 was from Escalades and it was rated at 345hp. All these engines are basically in the 99-2006 year model range with a couple small exceptions. They are all considered GENIII engines as opposed to GENIV that more or less started in the trucks in 2007.

Many parts will interchange between all these engines, but many will not. The LS3 is a GENIV and right off the bat I can tell you that cam will not fall right into a GENIII without some other changes (has to do with the cam sensor), BUT an LS2 cam would. You might want to explore that route if you get an LQ4/LQ9. Grab some LS2 valve springs while you are at it. With a little tuning that setup makes 400hp at the crank all day long.

I know this is a lot of info, please ask if any of it is unclear.

[Zoomin]

I've been researching the hell out of this for the last coupe weeks. I found a Craigslist LS1/4L60E and jumped all over it. Figured I could do the research later. I've seen McBassin's project firsthand and I'm just not into tearing into a wiring harness for a week when I can buy one for $600 that is tested and won't burn the truck down. I've seen some harnesses that look like a rabid squirrel got hold of it.

Next, you're going to have the ECM reprogrammed so its not looking for VATS, 2nd set of O2 sensors, etc. most places that sell harnesses offer this service.

Motor mounts - inch forward? Sheesh. Find a build thread that's not 4 years old one find out what they used. Tranny mounts. Linkage. Drive shaft. Throttle linkage. Exhaust.

Next up is the fuel system with the proper pressure, return lines, AN fittings, etc. No real magic here, except your harness needs to know about it.

Finally you need a radiator with the inlets positioned on the right sides and the proper numbers of fittings for steam vents, transmission lines, etc.

In all my research I'm really surprised that by now theres no spreadsheet with a checklist for a C10. Use these parts and you're done in a weekend, you know? Crazy that no one offers a kit. You mentioned the GMPP Connect and Cruise but even that doesn't cover everything.

I think once you've done all this it adds value to your vehicle because a ton of people want an old truck with a modern drivetrain but are intimidated by it.

I think after you've done the first one the rest of your rides will have it. Just a matter of willing your way through it..
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[birdistheword]

Yeah I'd totally like to know more too. I'd really like to swap out my gas hog 454 in my 72 K10 for some newer 5.3 or 6.0 power. The only bummer I've found so far are the mounts. I'd have to build a new engine cross member or buy a $400 one from Pacific Fab.

[bohmankid]

Originally Posted by birdistheword

Yeah I'd totally like to know more too. I'd really like to swap out my gas hog 454 in my 72 K10 for some newer 5.3 or 6.0 power. The only bummer I've found so far are the mounts. I'd have to build a new engine cross member or buy a $400 one from Pacific Fab.

Dirty dingo sells mounts that should clear all the crossmembers. They're expensive but worth it. My mounts cleared the crossmember with stock oil pan no problem.
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[68Stepbed]

OK, Chad. First off, don't try to absorb too much info at once, or it will overwhelm you. The first thing you need to start doing is researching the different types of engines, they're power/torque numbers and specs, and start deciding which engine/trans combos you think will best suit your driving and power needs/wants.

When you decide what you want, then start looking. After you get an engine/trans, then start looking into other things like motor mounts/adapter plates, headers, accessories, etc.

If you want to stay EFI with it, then look for something complete with intake, throttle body, injectors, exhaust manifolds, harness and PCM

[C10_ustacould]

Great advice Matt!

There is a lot of good advice here, but you have to have a plan to navigate it!

[mooseknuckles]

I would try and see whats available to you first, and make your decision from there.....

[Clyde65]

If you want an LS and want to get it installed and running, get a 4.8/4l60e and throw it in there, tune it and it will make 300HP at the crank. it gives you great gas mileage, reliability and you can get one for under $1500. then you can take your time and get the LSX of your dreams, you will already have the fuel system, drive accesories and exhaust done. quick swap to the LS2, LS3 or LQ9 build.

[Jonboy]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...07#post5767307

[TchncnDen]

If you have the space I would buy a complete donor vehicle. Due to their size and gas mileage stigma Suburbans can be found relatively cheap. That way you can hear it run, drive it, then sell the motor, transmission, gas pedal and anything else you need. Seats, gauge cluster, wiring harness, fuel pump, etc. Then after you have everything, again if you have the space I'd wait til your truck was complete, you can part the rest and damn near break even. I don't have the space so I couldn't do it that way, even so I bet I have less than $2500 into my motor/transmission installed. Heck I only have $10 into my whole truck. I know I'll never build a carb'd vehicle again, this was way to easy.