Ol John Lee's gettin a break system safety upgrade and long overdue overhaul

[Sharps40]

Today is start day....all new break system. Eliminating the single resevor master, replacing all wheel cylinders and splitting front from back with new lines. The dual cylinder will increase safety preventing one leak from takeing down the full break system. New lines replace the old tired lines. I have everything but a double flare tool, so working with standard lengths of prefab poly coated line. If I need to cut and flare, a good excuse for a break and a trip to the store for the tool. Wish me luck. Some pics tonight. I figure a good 2 day job.

[KVB]

This is another post that I will follow closely. Exactly what I am planning on doing with my brake system. I have replaced all the shoes, and springs as wellas the calipers. Replaced the lines. Just need to see how to tie in the double lines.

Thanks in advance.

Ken

[KVB]

That should have read "slave cylinders".

Ken

[Sharps40]

Fishing new lines under the truck is a unique challenge. But, dooable. May not be as pretty but will be fully functional and no more rusty paper thin lines to worry about.

Jack up the rear and get it on stands.



Tie up the brake pedal to slow down the flood of fluid thats gonna come out to a trickle



Proper wrench for brake fittings, and on a truck this old many will simply have to be cut out or twist off the old line.



Last opportunity to use the big 3/4 drive wrenches before I clean em up and give em back to my bud....pull the brake shoe spud just to make room to yank the LR cylinder out of the backing plate.



When the fittings won't come out, crimp the lines in two places and cut between.



The old and the new LR wheel cylinder.



New LR wheel cylinder in, brakes on, repeat for the RR and then on to the rear lines.

[Sharps40]

The old and the new RR wheel cylinders.



This is the RR t fitting. Brass, be careful. LMC has them but expensive and a wait for the mail. Rear lines are 3/16 OD not the 1/4 as on the front.



The old and the new rear brake hose. Threaded to accept the male fittings on 3/16" hard lines....not the 1/4" fittings of the front lines.



Basic tools for installing the new lines. I used premade lengths closest to my original lines for this job. These are American Greese Stick Poly Armor lines for rust resistance. This line is the long lead from LR to the RR t fitting. Some creative bending but even though a bit long it went in and made a neat job. Next size down was too short so rather than add another union, I went with the longer length of tubeing.



Here you can see the RR t fitting back in place, its input and output lines hooked up and running to the rear wheel cylinders. All the joints are tightened as I go, so I don't miss one.



Going from the RR to the RF I'll eliminate the RF t fitting and carry this lead back across the crossmember and up to the new dual resevoir master cylinder. I'm running 1/4" line from the MC all the way to the rear hose. The silver tube is a 1/4 to 3/16 adapter line. It mates the 1/4 tubeing I'm running all the way back down to the 3/16 size that fits to the RR flexible hose.



Finishing tightening the adapter line to the RR hose and I'll install the retainer clip.

[Sharps40]

In addition to the factory brake line clips...I added these. Steel Romex clips, rivieted to the frame inbetween the factory clips...less than 2 bucks for a bag of 20 at Lowes. I'll finish adding more to the cross member and frame rails in the final tally after all the drums are adjusted and the brakes blead.



Looks like the LF cylinder finally gave out....its leaking. Also upon further inspection, the RF was also starting to weep.



Timely brake upgrade. These were not leaking at all when I pulled the leaky rears for a hone and new seals. But, the rear $4 job held up (and the untouched fronts did to) untill I could get under there and gut the old stuff.



Big wrench again, pull the Front Cylinder anchor bolt out. The front wheel cylinders are a bit different on the light duty trucks. Instead of two bolts to hold them in like the rear, they are held on by a single anchor bolt. Heavy duty front brakes (an option) used two bolts like the rears. The heavy duty wheel cylinders also cost about three times as much and are still the same piston dia as the light duty brakes that came on it. I guess heavy duty is in the anchoring system and not so much in the performance of the fronts.



Here is all the new and old LF parts, wheel cylinder and the rubber hose.



These are all the new and old RF parts, wheel cylinder and rubber hose....note the hose is the same on both size and is sized for the male fittings on 1/4 hard lines. (unlike the rear hose and hardlines which are sized for 3/16)



Back side of the RF cylinder going on. Don't forget the copper washer that goes between the hose and the front wheel cylinder. You won't get this with the new cylinder or the hose. So, reuse the old washer if in good shape or get some new ones from the local parts house.

[Sharps40]

By the way, look at the LF brake photo. Short shoe is in the wrong place. Short shoe always go's forward. The Right Front wheel and both rear wheels were correctly assembled with the short shoe forward. Guess the mech got it wrong when the front shoes were replaced before I got the truck.

[Sharps40]

New or old, the bleeder screws for the front wheel cylinders run tight up against the spindle. Really can't get a socket on them and not much room for a wrench till ya grind it down thinner. The old bleeder screws had flats full length. I put them back in the new wheel cylinders since I can't get a wrench on the newer ones with the short flats. Sides, the newer ones must be chinese cause they are not quite 3/8 and not quite the next size metric either. So, puttin on the original chevy 3/8 bleeder screws so I can at least get the fronts blead.



The new and the old master cylinders on the bench. New is Left, a 1967 C10/Impala dual resevour Drum/Drum non power master. Got it from Orellies, (got all these parts from Orellies incidentally - most were on the shelf) for $15 and a $9 core. Cant exchange the old single for the double as a core but what the heck, at $24 the new dual is $20 cheeper than anywhere else.



The new 1967 Dual Master bolts right in like it was made for a 1964 C10. No change to the adjustable brake pedal rod needed. I bench blead the new master first and then bolted it up with the new boot in place behind the fire wall.



This is the LF t fitting. Top line comes down from the master resevour closest to the fire wall. It branches off the the LF and RF wheel cylinders useing all 1/4" hard line. I used a 40 inch lenght of line to run directly from the LF t fitting across the cross member and up to the RF brake hose attachment point. (In so doing, I was able to totally eliminate the brass t fitting used on the right front. I eliminated the hard line from the t fitting to the RF brake hose as well. The original function of the RF t fitting was to divert fluid from the single master cylinder to the rear wheels and to reduce from 1/4" line to 3/16" line for feeding the rear.)



Here is the new hose installed on the LF. Same hose goes on the RF as already shown in the Copper washer picture above.



Here is the first line from the new dual master. It runs to the LF t fitting and will feed the front brakes only. I'll attach it to the primary resevour which is the one closest to the fire wall.



Thats enough for tonight. Its gettin dark and I'm hungry. Tomorrow, I'll plumb the resevor farthest from the fire wall (useing 1/4" hard line) across the cross member and then a turn back to attach to the long line I previously showed ya running from the rear forward on the inside of the right frame rail.

Wish me luck...hope it don't leak!

[TxRat]

Looks great so far. May I give you just a bit of advice which you may already know but anywhere a brake line runs through a hole or against the frame cut you a piece of fuel line or vacuum hose and put it around the brake line so it doesn't rube a hole in the brake line down the road...

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by TxRat

Looks great so far. May I give you just a bit of advice which you may already know but anywhere a brake line runs through a hole or against the frame cut you a piece of fuel line or vacuum hose and put it around the brake line so it doesn't rube a hole in the brake line down the road...

Superb reminder. I did it for my fuel line at the pump. I'll get that done where they run down next to the frame off the master. In fact, I think I have some brass sheet I can wrap it with there too....I'll have to find some wire either way since the factory routeing there is close to the drivers bank of the exhaust.

[geezer#99]

Where's the residual check valves?

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Where's the residual check valves?

Couldn't tell ya. 67 Master for drum drum is supposed to work as is. My guess is its in the master as it is with most. Pretty much selected the master and procedures based on thread posted in FAQ.

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by Sharps40

Couldn't tell ya. 67 Master for drum drum is supposed to work as is. My guess is its in the master as it is with most. Pretty much selected the master and procedures based on thread posted in FAQ.

Checked on another site, per response from Al Cardone master cylinders (this one is a cardone) all of this type of mastercylinders are remanufactured with the check valves installed.

Evidently, other types have the check valves externally in some other applications. I'll check for weeping but the springs in the wheel cylinders appear wound so that the seals stay pressed against the walls in any event. We'll see.

[harpo1313]

Nice tec there sharps,ive got my master so far for my upgrade and you are gonna save me a few headaches for sure .thanks

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by harpo1313

Nice tec there sharps,ive got my master so far for my upgrade and you are gonna save me a few headaches for sure .thanks

Wait till ya start bendin line, layin on yer back with all the parts of the truck in the way......If yer workin overhead on a stripped frame, good for ya, it'll be easier and prettier.

[geezer#99]

If the master is an original (not rebuilt) then it should have residual valves in the outlet ports.
Rebuilt ones have them removed during the rebuild and not re-installed.
Look in the port of the old single pot and see if the new master looks the same inside.
Also are you going to add a proportioning valve to the back?

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

If the master is an original (not rebuilt) then it should have residual valves in the outlet ports.
Rebuilt ones have them removed during the rebuild and not re-installed.
Look in the port of the old single pot and see if the new master looks the same inside.
Also are you going to add a proportioning valve to the back?

I'll check the ports tomorrow when I hook them up. As for a proportioning valve, I know its needed for disc/drum but evidently, from what I'm readin on line, its not required for drum/drum. Supposedly the porportioning is done by the drum/drum master. I'm not too worried, pretty much following the step/step outlined in FAQ here and it seems to have worked will for others on the board. With luck, by tomorrow evening things will be bled and shoes adjusted and out for a test ride.

The real bias should be taken care of by the size of the wheel cylinders. Both resevors of the master are equal size with the rear cylinders running 3/16 line to 1" cylinders and the front lines of 1/4 to 1 1/8" cylinders. I think its all gonna be fine. Hard part will be pumpin fluid throughout w/o a pressurized bleeder.

[boucher racing]

Dammit Sharps, I love reading your posts! Thanks again and keep 'em comin!
Posted via Mobile Device

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by boucher racing

Dammit Sharps, I love reading your posts! Thanks again and keep 'em comin!
Posted via Mobile Device

Lets hope it works and don't leak! So far, total investment in safer brakeing system is under $200 with everything avaialble at Orellies. I figure if it all works I'm gonna find one of them valve thingies with a wire on it and put a warning bulb in the dash, so if one system lets go, I get a light on the dash and can pull over for bourbon while someone else fixes it.

[geezer#99]

If you get a fitting that leaks just lap it.
Snug it up, loosen a quarter turn, snug up a hair tighter, loosen it and repeat a few times. That way the mating surfaces get matched up.

[Sharps40]

Cool. Thanks partner. Bout 75% there. Should be ready to start pumpin in juice before noon.

[MikeS.]

Looks good, I did all this when I converted to disk fronts a few months ago.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tx Firefighter]

I must be getting older. I enjoy these "working man" rebuild threads way more than all the threads with trendy modifications.

[Sharps40]

I know....I know...its messy. Clean up later....just gettin to break time and there is now fluid flowing out of all four wheel cylinders and that is progress.

New master is in and bench bled. Toothpick checked and one does not enter all the way to the center of the bore, hits something soft inside the brass cones pressed into the outlet ports.

So, Time to crack the wheel cylinder valves one at a time, RR first and let gravity do a bunch the work pullin fluid to the wheel cylinders. I spent about half the morning finishing connections from the forward resevour across the cross member to the rear line. That and clipping them all down with bolts and the steel romex clips. Even found a couple places in need of a rubber insulator or two made from gates rubber hose.



While gravity was workin I smoke cheep cigars, drank coffee and measured each drum to bring the shoes up to a light drag. Readjustment will be needed but there ain't no pedal at all if ya don't tighten up the star wheels.



Transfer the drum measurment to the shoes, pull up the star wheel, tweek till it drags a bit when you turn the drum....leave the drums on for pumpin the breaks up.



I got gravity flow at the rears first so hooked up a hose into a partial bottle of clean fluid and went ahead and started pumpin them up first. Keept toppin off the forward resevour and cleanin up mess at the rear till the bottle was noticeably fuller. I alternated between RR and LR till I got good gravity and pump pedal flow. All this time, nothing went to the front, whether or not the wheel cylinders were open or closed....



I finally got gravity flow at the LF wheel cylinder but never at the RF. So, locked down the LF bleeder, opened the RF bleeder, topped off the rearward resevour and put the top on the master tight. Gave the pedal 5 good Panic Stops and as you can see, air blockage over come and I got a couple goooooooood healthy squirts of fluid out the RF. After that, alternated bleeding the LF and RF...checked all four for gravity flow and pump pedal flow again and now....takeing a break....GoodWife Sharps has volunteered to pump the breaks this afternoon as I go around the truck about 40eleven more times to bleed em out fully. Back later....

[Sharps40]

Basically, I found enough different size and shaped 3/8 box end and combo wrenches and sockets to put one at each wheel cylinder. The box ends work fine on the rear, plenty of room. The LF will take a socket or an open end wrench or a very fine 3/8 ignition box end wrench bent to clear the backing plate. The RF requires a fine bodied open end wrench since neither a socket or box end will fit due to the shape of the spindle. But, soon, back on my back, Momma pumpin away and we should be gettin brake fluid forcin all that air out of the high points in the system. See ya this evening....hopefully a ride report but at this late hour, ride is prolly tomorrow AM.