Crate engine for 78 350 CA truck?

[charlieatthedisco]

Tried doing a search for this because I'm sure it has already been mentioned but the search always fails on me. I was thinking throwing in a crate engine in a 78 c10 which already has a 350 but is tired and needs a rebuild. I'd rather start fresh. What engine do you recommend and from where? also would I be able to add all of the smog components to it that I have on the current 350? It is a CA truck and must be smogged. I'm not looking for major HP gains here just a driver

[lowesguy]

The smog law is unforgiving here,either rebuild,replace or know somebody! a crate engine will be a gamble! wouldn't you be pissed if you did all that work and the tech fails it for not original engine? wish mine was exempt,its a 78 to,cant even do headers from my research. I did gut the cat thou!Bahahaha

[charlieatthedisco]

Originally Posted by lowesguy

The smog law is unforgiving here,either rebuild,replace or know somebody! a crate engine will be a gamble! wouldn't you be pissed if you did all that work and the tech fails it for not original engine? wish mine was exempt,its a 78 to,cant even do headers from my research. I did gut the cat thou!Bahahaha

Haha I'm going to have to bet on the "know somebody" trick. Or who knows maybe this coming year they will extend the smog except to 1980! Or maybe i'm just dreaming haha

[nheller76]

So maybe this is a different way to go but if your not looking for HP then I would suggest getting a rebuilt one from CL or an engine shop. It will be cheaper and u could save money for things like a carb rebuild or some shiny parts. If u get a rebuilt block, rotating assembly and heads u can transfer everything from your old motor. Just a very simple swap, plus u would be able to see how everything goes on the new motor. Just saying crate motors aren't all they are put up to be and a good shop rebuild would work better for what your after.
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[charlieatthedisco]

Originally Posted by nheller76

So maybe this is a different way to go but if your not looking for HP then I would suggest getting a rebuilt one from CL or an engine shop. It will be cheaper and u could save money for things like a carb rebuild or some shiny parts. If u get a rebuilt block, rotating assembly and heads u can transfer everything from your old motor. Just a very simple swap, plus u would be able to see how everything goes on the new motor. Just saying crate motors aren't all they are put up to be and a good shop rebuild would work better for what your after.
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Thats not a bad call. I'm gonna call around and see what people have around here.

[lowesguy]

18 years ago my 350 was fouling plugs and ran like crap,I did a compression test and came out good,so I just pulled the heads and had them rebuilt,trucks still runs good and pass's smog! my bottom end is still original 1978!

[charlieatthedisco]

Originally Posted by lowesguy

18 years ago my 350 was fouling plugs and ran like crap,I did a compression test and came out good,so I just pulled the heads and had them rebuilt,trucks still runs good and pass's smog! my bottom end is still original 1978!

I'm extremely worried about my lower end, the whole reason wh this started is because I flushed the cooling system and when I fired her back up all the freeze plugs started to leak, one after another. When I pulled the plugs I could stick my finger in there and pull out endless black gunk like someone had put bottles of leak seal crap in it

[nheller76]

Originally Posted by charlieatthedisco

Thats not a bad call. I'm gonna call around and see what people have around here.

I might be wrong I don't live in CA but it might be worth getting your motor redone too.
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[charlieatthedisco]

Originally Posted by nheller76

I might be wrong I don't live in CA but it might be worth getting your motor redone too.
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Well I started calling around and the medium price here for a rebuild is in the 2k range and thats labor to clean and machine the parts. I think I might hold out for CL rebuild like you suggested

[nheller76]

Wow CA is expensive!
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[Tx Firefighter]

No sense in replacing an engine due to rusty core plugs.

Replace all core plugs and flush the cooling system to get it clean. That's a 50 dollar job, including antifreeze.
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[Skunksmash]

Originally Posted by lowesguy

Wouldn't you be pissed if you did all that work and the tech fails it for not original engine?

Are you allowed to upgrade to an engine that produces even lower emissions? Seems like if they're so concerned about pollution, then they'd be all for doing that. If so, 5.3LS upgrade.

[Tx Firefighter]

Some of this California Nazi talk doesn't make sense.

Riddle me this.....

A new truck throws a rod through the block and ruins it. Under warranty, the GM dealership tech walks into the parts department and rolls a crate engine out to the service bay and installs it. You're telling me that now, since the block doesn't carry the original engine serial number its not legal ?
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[Skunksmash]

I was always under the impression that all it had to do, was pass factory emissions for that engine, that year. That's why I asked "What if you actually improved things"?

I can't understand why they would be opposed to a less polluting engine going into a vehicle. But who knows. Never count on the Government when you want good sense.

[KrazyRay]

It looks like CA is starting a program to check engine date codes and make you smog it to the standards of the newer engine. My buddy has a newer Vortec in his 86 K10 and it failed smog with all of his 86 emissions attahed to the Vortec. It now must meet 1996 emmisions.

[rfmaster]

To original poster (OP)

Pull your engine out.
Have a competent machine shop go through rotating assembly.
Crank may need to be turned down if bearing surfaces are out of spec. Have block checked, bored, and squared if needed. Align hone if mains showing signs.
For 78 source new flex plate and balancer - there is no point of re-using them.
Have rods checked, new rods with performance bolts are about $130. In most cases it is not worth re-working stock rods with new bolts.
For a stock or RV style rebuild use Sealed Power H345 pistons. Cheap and will take reasonable amount of abuse.
If budget permits have machine shop balance rotating assembly - in the end you'll have smoother running engine.
In 4.030 block and 9.025 deck height with 0.038 thick head gasket with 74cc heads the resulting CR will be 8.7:1 which is fine for 87 octane E10 crap we have for gas in CA.
Have heads checked and reworked, valve job - at a minimum new exhaust valves are a must!
Get a stock or RV style camshaft that has EO number - for example SpeedPro CS-1014R or CS-1105R Emissions Legal Cam; CARB E.O. No. D-292-1; Pro-2000 Perf. Cam with matching HT817 lifters.
Use SAE 30W oil with zinc additive during break-in -absolute must for a flat tappet engine.

Make sure that you retain all smog devices - EFE valve is commonly damaged during pull, TVS screwed into intake manifold tend to break apart from years in service. Take plenty of photos, label everything, draw a system diagram how everything is connected before turning a wrench.

Clean everything - make sure that all gasket surfaces are flat and gasket residue has been removed. I keep a note book for each projects keep it organized. There is no other way for smog infested engine bays of the 70 and early 80's.

Most important - take your time to make it right.

//RF

[Malo83]

Save your pennies and go the E Rod 5.3 route, a little pricey but this looks like the wave of the future for Cali Cruzzers
http://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/gm...smog-legality/

[charlieatthedisco]

Originally Posted by rfmaster

To original poster (OP)

Pull your engine out.
Have a competent machine shop go through rotating assembly.
Crank may need to be turned down if bearing surfaces are out of spec. Have block checked, bored, and squared if needed. Align hone if mains showing signs.
For 78 source new flex plate and balancer - there is no point of re-using them.
Have rods checked, new rods with performance bolts are about $130. In most cases it is not worth re-working stock rods with new bolts.
For a stock or RV style rebuild use Sealed Power H345 pistons. Cheap and will take reasonable amount of abuse.
If budget permits have machine shop balance rotating assembly - in the end you'll have smoother running engine.
In 4.030 block and 9.025 deck height with 0.038 thick head gasket with 74cc heads the resulting CR will be 8.7:1 which is fine for 87 octane E10 crap we have for gas in CA.
Have heads checked and reworked, valve job - at a minimum new exhaust valves are a must!
Get a stock or RV style camshaft that has EO number - for example SpeedPro CS-1014R or CS-1105R Emissions Legal Cam; CARB E.O. No. D-292-1; Pro-2000 Perf. Cam with matching HT817 lifters.
Use SAE 30W oil with zinc additive during break-in -absolute must for a flat tappet engine.

Make sure that you retain all smog devices - EFE valve is commonly damaged during pull, TVS screwed into intake manifold tend to break apart from years in service. Take plenty of photos, label everything, draw a system diagram how everything is connected before turning a wrench.

Clean everything - make sure that all gasket surfaces are flat and gasket residue has been removed. I keep a note book for each projects keep it organized. There is no other way for smog infested engine bays of the 70 and early 80's.

Most important - take your time to make it right.

//RF

Thanks so much for this good info. I purchased all new smog switches for smog and vacuum lines that run to the egr and everything. New EGR, etc. The next step is to pull the engine like you said and I think I will go that route. Thanks again.

Charlie

[rfmaster]

Malo

In order for him to run 5.3 in 78 truck he will have to install all of the smog equipment from 5.3L donor and smog it as if it was a donor truck (2002 for example). Instead of $2k rebuild job this will turn into $7k transformation exercise of a $2500 truck. So as you can see it not a practical for some who do not have deep pockets...

The E-ROD engine system comes in either manual or automatic configurations and has all required emission equipment, including a properly calibrated engine control module, an evaporative emission canister, and catalytic converters (and what about VSS?). The 5.3L is the second E-ROD engine to be cleared for use in California.

While more emission components come with the E-ROD systems in order to pass California regulations, they still have plenty of power to push. The 5.3L is rated at 326 HP at 5,300 RPM and 350 pound-feet of torque at 4,400 RPM. While the price is a bit steep at $7,125, it may be well worth it to have a legal performance engine for your California-registered car, and you’re getting a complete turn-key engine package. Anyone who’s spent a small fortune trying to get all the bits and pieces necessary for a junkyard swap will appreciate not having to repeat that experience.

[Dead Parrot]

Go to a GM dealer and ask about what crate motors they have for your truck. Be sure to express your concern about the emissions issue. Have a buddy or two in tow as well as witnesses. They should be willing to certify a replacement motor as CARB acceptable or confirm what others have expressed about having to conform to newer standards. At least then you will have a price you can compare to the rebuild cost.
When I put one in my PU, it came with a 3 year/ 50K mile warranty. That was many years ago and OK doesn't have vehicle inspections. It was a drop in and everything just bolted up.

[nheller76]

Reading this makes me happy I live in Oregon! U CA guys need to riot! This emissions stuff is for the birds!
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[Skunksmash]

They must be going over these vehicles with a fine tooth comb in cali. Here in TX, there are a number of ways to beat the test. Most people don't know how and thus won't do it, but us mechanical types could do it with ease if we want to.

[78trk]

GM makes a long block 350 290 hp part # 12499529 that is for 79 and earlier emissions.
It has a lot of good parts in it and you just put your old engine parts on it.
It is about $ 2,200. I am running one in my truck now with 45,000 miles on it.
Look up GMPartsDirect.

[78 Big10 454]

rfmaster has hit the nail on the head. That's the route I'd follow.

[KQQL IT]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...7353/overview/



Seems like its a direct replacement.
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