Steering Column Length with CPP Box

[youngerestorer]

I'm going to install the CPP power steering box that replaced the old Toyota one they sold. But I am also looking to install a Flaming River column. I was wondering whether any of you have installed the new box? And also with the new box, what length of the Flaming River column did you use? I'm leaning towards the 30" column, but I want to be sure. Thanks for your help!!

[18inchapes]

I'm doing the same swap on my '56 GMC 102 and I'm looking for the column length also.
I searched the fourms and this thread came up.
I want to use the flaming river roaster column,(i'm thinking 28")
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.ph...8/FR21022-28BK
but want to be sure before I spend the $500. on a column.
What did you guys use with the Toyota/CCP 400 box install?
If you used the original column, how long is it? When you cut the lower section,how much is sticking out from the firewall to the box?

Thanks Jeff

[AZ59apacheguy]

Subscribed, I'm doing the same thing.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Maybe a dumb questions coming but why not mount the new box and then measure how long you need the new column needs to be using the old column as your mock up?

[_Ogre]

or you could always try a tape measure

[OrrieG]

I think Denee used a similar set up in her truck.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=471975

[18inchapes]

Hey Dan, good question and probably should of added this to the original post, The truck is a daily driver and rather than take the original box and column out and install the CCP box just to measure for a column and have the truck out of service for a few weeks, I thought I would see if anyone else did this swap before. To use the stock column as a mock up, you would have to cut it from the box, I would rather leave it complete in case someone else needed it.
I'm tring not to lay up the truck too long so the more parts I have onhand, the smoother it should be. I know I'll run into something (murphys law) just tring to keep it minimal

Orge, Maybe I can't read a tape measure or I'm just too lazy to do it myself...
FYI the stock column is 36" if you cut it at the steering box.
36" column and the CCP box would put the steering wheel against your chest.... hence the 28" number I came up with. I'd rather have it a little closer to the dash, you can always slide the seat up if needed

Orrie, that build came up in a few posts I saw, but I couldn't find the link to read , so thanks for posting the link, I'll check it out

Thanks Jeff

[roger55]

I put a CPP box in the '57 I'm working on and used the column shift Ididit column.
Part #1140652010

http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1279745

[18inchapes]

Roger, thank you very much, thats exactly what I 'm looking for. I was thinking that 28" would be OK, boy was I off, yours is 32". I want my column close to the dash like yours also.
Another question, Did you mount the column directly to the rag joint on the steering box or do you have a u-joint from the column and a shaft to the rag joint?

Thank you also for the link to your build

Jeff

[roger55]

Originally Posted by 18inchapes

Roger, thank you very much, thats exactly what I 'm looking for. I was thinking that 28" would be OK, boy was I off, yours is 32". I want my column close to the dash like yours also.
Another question, Did you mount the column directly to the rag joint on the steering box or do you have a u-joint from the column and a shaft to the rag joint?
Thank you also for the link to your build
Jeff

The column is attached directly to the rag joint:



As you can see from my link, my column would be too short for use with a flat steering wheel. It does work perfect with the stock '57 - '59 dished wheel. Your original '56 wheel won't work with this.

Here's a shot of an original '54-'56 wheel on it. It hits the dash.



Are you going to use a column shift? I had to move my ignition switch with my column because the shifter blocks access to the switch in the original mounting hole.

[55dude]

looks good! any more pictures of the CPP box? the cable shifter setup is great.

[roger55]

Originally Posted by 55dude

looks good! any more pictures of the CPP box? the cable shifter setup is great.

See this:

http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107699

Look at post #21 too.

Not many headers will fit with the CPP 400 box. Most block huggers won't fit either. The 2 1/2" ram horns I used work great though. Could be a couple Sanderson models will fit but I don't know if they would flow any better than the 2 1/2" ram horns.

[18inchapes]

Hi Roger, thanks again for the info. My truck is a '56 with the flat wheel so I will hit with that length column and wheel ( I would like to stay with the original wheel also)
The ignition switch shouldn't be a problem for me, mine is a GMC and the switch is on the left side dash
Did you have to use the cable for the shift linkage? I'm undecided about column shift or floor shift. Currently the PO has the original 3 speed column shift hooked up as the gear selector Thanks again for all your help.... Jeff

[roger55]

Originally Posted by 18inchapes

Hi Roger, thanks again for the info. My truck is a '56 with the flat wheel so I will hit with that length column and wheel ( I would like to stay with the original wheel also)
The ignition switch shouldn't be a problem for me, mine is a GMC and the switch is on the left side dash
Did you have to use the cable for the shift linkage? I'm undecided about column shift or floor shift. Currently the PO has the original 3 speed column shift hooked up as the gear selector Thanks again for all your help.... Jeff

Jeff,
Yes, I had to use a cable for the shifter. There's no way that I could see that a shifting rod would clear the exhaust manifold.

It's an Ididit cable kit. If I had to do it over I would buy the Lokar cable kit. The Ididit doesn't work that well for a 700R4. I can get it to go down into first gear with it. Oh well, how often does anybody need that anyway? Probably never.
Roger

[roger55]

Originally Posted by roger55

It's an Ididit cable kit. If I had to do it over I would buy the Lokar cable kit. The Ididit doesn't work that well for a 700R4. I can get it to go down into first gear with it. Oh well, how often does anybody need that anyway? Probably never.
Roger

"I can get it to go down into first gear with it."

Of course I meant "can't".

Sure wish they allowed changes to posts indefinitely on this site. It's the reason why I did my build thread on trifive.com instead of here.

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by roger55

Jeff,
Yes, I had to use a cable for the shifter. There's no way that I could see that a shifting rod would clear the exhaust manifold.

It's an Ididit cable kit. If I had to do it over I would buy the Lokar cable kit. The Ididit doesn't work that well for a 700R4. I can get it to go down into first gear with it. Oh well, how often does anybody need that anyway? Probably never.
Roger

I built my own using aftermarket parts off the self at O'riellys and fabbing a simple angle bracket for the fire wall for half the cost of the Lokar kit. Here is a photo, note that the bracket on the trans was installed up side down in this photo.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...&postcount=447

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by roger55

Jeff,
Yes, I had to use a cable for the shifter. There's no way that I could see that a shifting rod would clear the exhaust manifold.

It's an Ididit cable kit. If I had to do it over I would buy the Lokar cable kit. The Ididit doesn't work that well for a 700R4. I can get it to go down into first gear with it. Oh well, how often does anybody need that anyway? Probably never.
Roger

roger: all you need is a shorter lever on the trans or a longer lever on the column.
i turned a PRND21 into a PRND321 by making an adjustable to get the length right
i believe both lokar and ididit make adjustable shift levers

[roger55]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

roger: all you need is a shorter lever on the trans or a longer lever on the column.
i turned a PRND21 into a PRND321 by making an adjustable to get the length right
i believe both lokar and ididit make adjustable shift levers

The Ididit one isn't adjustable. I've been in contact with Marty at Ididit and he sent me another column lever and had me drill the hole out further on it but it still wouldn't work. It would go far enough end-to-end doing that but the detents in the transmission for the middle gears didn't match the detents in the column.

When using the hole location from the written directions it worked fine for PRND32 though. Marty swears that his kit has worked for many customers with a 700R4 but I just don't see how. Someone on another forum who works in a restoration shop told me that he's had the same trouble as me and the only way he could get them to work right was to shorten the length on the transmission arm. He gave me details on how to do that but I decided I needed to move on with my restore and get back to dealing with it later.

I didn't think the Lokar kit had adjustable arms either. I'll have to take another look at it.

[OrrieG]

When I was doing research on my shifter I found a site that said with stock GM columns and PG-TH series transmissions the radius from the center of the steering column to shift arm/cable needs to be the same as from the center of the tranny shift shaft to the arm/cable for the detents to work correctly. The recommended procedure was to put the steering column in neutral and trans in neutral and adjust the arm/cable. That makes sure the neutral safety switch works correctly. I converted my Chevelle PG to TH350 that way and found that 3rd was at PG high and 1st was at PG low with second falling in between.

In theory if the aftermarket guys did there design right the sweep angle from park to 1st of the column arm should match the trans shift arm. If the steering column in not getting to 1 you need to shorten the trans arm radius and adjust it so neutral stays in the same place on the column and trans.

[18inchapes]

Roger, thanks again for all your help. I have street rod headers on my truck that I put on 4 months ago. I was going to go with the ram horns, but these came up at a good price so I got them instead. I may still be able to use them because they are the angle plug style and my engine sits closer to the radiator (PO did that) so thats going to be a "find out when the box goes in thing". If theres a problem, at least I'll know what will work
I plan on reading through your build this weekend
Thanks again, Jeff

[18inchapes]

Roger, I finally read through your build. Very nice! The truck is going to look awsome. Like the colors you and your wife picked always liked that green/tan combo, you just don't see it anymore.

As for your shift linkage,there are linkage kits out there. I have one installed on my truck right now. The PO installed it so I don't know what brand it is ( I would think lokar because he installed lokar pedals,cables etc. elsewhere) I have the 700R4 but using the original 3 speed column shifter. It is done with a rod instead of a cable.
I also have one installed on my '32 plymouth, that is also the 700R4 but to a S-10 column instead. heres the link......

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/col...shiftlink.html

I may be bugging you in the future about your disc brake conversion, I have the kit and will be doing that also. My difference is I went with the under floor booster, but I'm concerned about the pedal height. Thats one of those things I'm going to have to mock up 1st and see where it ends up. I may end up going to the firewall mount like you did. Thats where I may have a few questions... we'll see

Carlisle PA spring meet is comming up next month and I plan on going. I'm really diggin the flaming river column because its the 1 3/4" tube (like original) and has the bell look as the original, plus its tilt. I wanna touch it before I buy it..... LOL

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.ph...8/FR21022-32BK

Thanks again I'll be following the build on your wifes truck
Jeff

[roger55]

An update here.

I got my p/s hoses installed today. A guy on trifive.com that goes by jalapeno (Authentic Automotive in Forney, TX) made them for me.

I installed a p/s fluid cooler on the frame also. I've had trouble with overheating and ruining pumps in the past on a couple of cars (including my Bel Air with a CPP 500 box) and had to install coolers so I decided to put one on the truck from the get-go to avoid any potential problems.

[18inchapes]

Hi Roger, looks great. I managed to get the flaming river bella tilt column,32" for mine. Haven't put my system in yet. Still shopping around for a steering wheel.My truck is a driver so I want to have everything available before I start tearing into it. I wish they made 14" version of the stock wheel, 18" is too big.
I'm interested in how you make out with your brakes also. I have everything to convert to discs using the underfloor M/C set up, but now I'm comtemplating going that route because I don't like the underfloor pedal height.
I've been following your build at tri five,truck is looking real nice.
Thanks for all your help Jeff

[roger55]

Originally Posted by 18inchapes

Hi Roger, looks great. I managed to get the flaming river bella tilt column,32" for mine. Haven't put my system in yet. Still shopping around for a steering wheel.My truck is a driver so I want to have everything available before I start tearing into it. I wish they made 14" version of the stock wheel, 18" is too big.
I'm interested in how you make out with your brakes also. I have everything to convert to discs using the underfloor M/C set up, but now I'm comtemplating going that route because I don't like the underfloor pedal height.
I've been following your build at tri five,truck is looking real nice.
Thanks for all your help Jeff

Thanks Jeff!
I'll be interested in what you do for a steering wheel. I have trouble envisioning any flat wheel working well without an extension.
I really like the vintage look of the large original wheels. I have the original 18" wheel on my '55 Bel Air and it's great even with the 500 power steering box I have on it.
If you have trouble coming up with something at least you know you can always get a stock '57 to '59 dished wheel.

I know what you mean about that pedal height issue. After everything I read, I knew I wanted to get the firewall mounted pedal for mine from the get-go. But, I ended up having to mod the CPP kit to get the pedal down lower anyway. But, it wasn't very hard to do. I guess you probably saw that I posted those details in my build thread.

[18inchapes]

Since mine is a GMC I wanted to stay with something that has the option of a GMC horn button.
I've been looking at the '88-'94 GMC steering wheels on ebay. They look like a 2" dish (or less) and I was thinking that that style wheel on the retro column I'm using will look Good.
something like this........
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1500-STEERIN...9433f0&vxp=mtr

I like this one also....this one is a Grant
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-1994-GM...003da4&vxp=mtr
jeff