Why an S-10 ?

[Jack Guzman]

I noticed that alot of people here have 1950s era trucks mounted on S-10 frames. I don't understand this. Unless your original frame is rotted what is better about an S-10?
That issue aside, Is the S-10 frame that close that it fits easily? I drove an S-10 once that had a 350 motor and a gm 350 turbo transmission. Making everything fit must have been an interesting project.
Anyone care to enlighten me on this subject? Thanks---Jack

[va4cqd]

people do it because of the suspension. some think they're better off trying to get the old metal to fit the newer frame is easier then getting newer suspension to fit the old frame.

[mechanixman]

Also, the s10 frame is narrow enough, that the cab sits on the frame with (almost) no modification. Making it fit isn't that bad. All you're doing is making body mounts, and welding them to the frame in the right spot. Also, there are several kits where you don't even need to make the mounts! Just bolt/weld them on, and the body sits on the frame with almost no problem.

[av8tr33337]

For me it was about budget, and you have to consider your own skill level. I am a first time builder.

I didn't have the $1500.00 - $2000.00 for a new Mustang II type suspension.

At the time, I did not feel I had the skills to cut the original frame and graft in a Camaro, Nova or other front clip.

I did not want the ride or handling of the old truck, nor did I want to spend the money upgrading the steering components, breaks etc.

I bought my 1951 for 350.00. Bought my 1996 S10 Chassis for $100.00. Replaced all the bushings and ball joints for around $150.00 I have about $300.00 in paint and materials for all of the cab mounts, bed mounts and running board mounts.

I acquired a 1984 Camaro that was totaled by a family member that had less than 10,000 miles on a fresh engine. I am using the entire drive train.

I still have a long way to go but I have less than $1000.00 in it so far.

Admittedly, if money was not an issue I would have chosen another route, but this is what I could do on my budget.

Don't get me wrong I would love to have a truck restored to original condition. I just don't want that as a daily driver which I plan to use mine for.

So it comes down to what the individual wants, needs, and can afford. Because in the end it is all about personal taste and satisfaction, not what anybody else thinks.

To answer your question about fit. The S10 regular cab long bed chassis is within an inch of the same wheel base of your original 3100 pickup chassis. You would need to use a 4WD S10 rear end to get the track width close (Some also use a ford explorer rear with factory disc breaks) Most guys also use 1-2 inch wheel spacers in the front. The biggest advantage in my opinion is that S10 parts are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. Right off the bat you have front disk breaks, power steering, IFS, etc. Some people use the entire S10 drive train.

There are better options out there, but for my money the S10 chassis works best for my budget and skill set.

Here is a video I just did on making everything fit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdgYy5YtW8k

[Indian113]

The only problem I see is you have to run wheel spacers or offset wheels as they are actually quite a bit narrower than stock frames. I put a nova sub on my 53 and Nova rear end with the Chassis Engineering spring kit and was happy the way it turned out. I ran 15x6 with 4 in back spacing on front and 15x8 with 4 in. spacing on rear. Some times I really wish I had kept it instead of putting all that money in my S10.

[ghettoluxury]

It is because we are cheep and want a nice ride! Around here you can pick up a dead S10 for under $800. The wheel base is perfect for a 47-55 pickup and you are now riding on IFS with a partial boxed frame. Once 50's the cab is mounted on the frame, it sits back further than the one from the S10 did. This means there is plenty of room for your V8 to sit.

Also there are guys like me that can't find a complete truck for a decent price so we start gathering pieces. I picked up the cab with doors, full interior, grill, and inner fenders off of a grain truck for $450. A complete bed with fenders for $100 and a S10 frame for another $150. Put that together with the 5.3/4L60 sitting in the barn (that was supposed to go in my 73) and so far I am in this truck for $1000. While looking for a 47-53 I could not find a whole truck that was not rotted out for under $2500. Of corse I still need a hood, front fenders, and running boards, but I should still come in under the asking price of a lot of these guys.

[Indian113]

That's really a good story, I'm glad your finding all the pieces to build your truck at good prices. One thing about it- it would be a boring world if we all did or have the same things. I had a guy chase me down one day while I was out with my S10, seems like he wanted to buy it so he could put a GMC AD on my frame. He knew I had just put a 5.3 with 700R4 and thought it would be ideal for a swap. Problem was he only offered me $8000.00 for my Dime. I told him I had $11,000.00 in it and really didn't want to take that much of a loss.

[Jack Guzman]

These were some great responses. I get it.
I was lucky. My 51 came complete with a solid frame. There was still a little factory paint left on it in places. I just have to do alot of painting and replace alot of missing small parts. All the rubber was gone and a few broken and missing windows.---Jack

[1project2many]

So it comes down to what the individual wants, needs, and can afford. Because in the end it is all about personal taste and satisfaction, not what anybody else thinks.

Yes, but no. I'd think safety should be an issue. The S10 chassis is built using parts originally designed for the A and G body car. That was the smallest full frame car GM ever made and it was lightened to boot. They have small brakes, small bearings, small bushings in the suspension components. There are different weld and bolt in gussets for cars equipped with V8's to carry the weight of the block and the few that came through with 350 diesels had even more bracing because of the load of that big Old block. But even with this the frames tended to crack at the welds. The same thing happens when you install a big block.

The S10 truck is a 1/4 ton truck. They have the same small brakes, bearings, bushings, and steering parts in the front end as the car chassis. They have the same small rear differential and axle bearings. Just because it has a truck body mounted on top does not make it any less car underneath. It does not have the benefit of factory engineering to support a V8 and although people put them in frequently, you rarely hear about what happens durability wise down the road. Strange, but I almost never hear of people adding the same braces which were used in the car version of the chassis no matter what the truck is used for. Cracks at the frame where the crossmember or A arms attach? Not for me.

So you put the S10 underneath, and it doesn't take long to decide to upgrade the axle. Everyone knows it's not too durable and the wrong width anyway. Then you realize you've got a truck that can accelerate fairly well so you want larger front brakes. That requires different upper A arms and a set of Camaro / Nova spindles, rotors, and calipers on the cheap end or a set of expensive upgraded aftermarket brakes on the high end. And of course the track width is wrong so you're looking for wheels with the right dimensions. And there's a host of other things you need to change as well such as adding the cab mounts and altering steering column and shaft angles.

I know people use these all the time and get away with it. And if anyone understands building on a tight budget, it's me. So I recognize the considerations. I really believe people are "under engineering" their trucks by choosing the S10 frame.

[_Ogre]

imo, a lot of projects start out with frame swaps and never get finished
people post how easy it is and then they end up on ebay
there a lot of successful s10 swaps on this forum, but for every successful swap there are 10 not so successful.

[msaintg]

I guess I did good using the blazer frame then. It is boxed all the way from the front bumper to the rear suspension from the factory. and since it was a 4x4 vehicle, it already had the wider axles under it..... just 9" too short.

I personally don't think the S10 frames are 'under engineered' for the light body 3100's. If you look at those two frames side by side, the S10 frame is Waaaaaay beefier than the original frame. You mention putting V8s in the S10 frame without beefing up the frame.... what about putting a V8 in the original frame? Nobody beefs those up either. I think you just have a bunch of amateurs trying to build something, that are not qualified to do it, so they try to copy what others have done, and miss those details like extra brackets and larger bearing stuff. Of course, I could show you where the Chevy engineers missed those things too.

[Katrina/10]

The stock frame can be easily modified to be whatever you want it to be. I know it may be "cheaper" in the short run to do a frame swap. But I would not want the aggravation of starting over from zero with cab and bed mounts.

[mr48chev]

I think av8tr33337 pretty well summed it up for most guys who do it. It is viewed as being a lot cheaper than buying top quality aftermarket pieces to put on your stock frame to get independent front suspension and upgraded rear suspension. Many view it as being a lot easier and that may be.

I don't really view and 800$$$$ donor rig as "cheap" though. After that you are going to figure you will have to spend at least a couple hundred on new bushings and ball joints for most old S-10 suspensions just as you would for any other donor rig suspension that hadn't been recently rebuilt.

I'd have to think that a lot of guys actually do the S-10 swap because they think it is easy and then there are those who do it because it's what the "cool guys" are doing right now. The cool guys have it so I have to have it syndrome that we as truck guys fall into on a regular basis. Not that it is wrong but we do often follow the herd down the dusty trail rather than make our own trail because that is where the herd is going this week.

Personally and from 40 years of experience with these trucks the sheet metal just flat lines up better and fits better on a stock frame with a lot less hassles. That includes subframe swaps and frame swaps. When I did the subframe swap on my 48 in the early 80's it took longer to get the front sheet metal fitted and lined up than it did to swap the subframe onto the frame. I still have the hacked up inner panels and other panels that suffered the ravages of the swap.

Most S-10 swaps do mount the cab and nose high enough above the frame that you don't run into a lot of that but looking between the cab and frame it looks like a bad 4x4 body lift on some rigs.

Still, If you have no frame, a junk frame or maybe you got a deal on an old two ton grain truck with a perfect cab that you want to use for a half ton pickup head on as I have no issues with using the S-10 chassis when you don't have a good frame to begin with. I just hate to see near perfect frames pulled out from under these trucks and cut up for scrap just so a guy can scab an S-10 frame under them.

[S10Fan]

I went with an S-10 chassis because my stock frame was a disaster, cut, hacked,and pretty much scrap. If my stock frame had been in good shape I would have kept it for sure. I used a short wheel base S-10 chassis and stretched it 9 inches. Why? The frame was free and I've built all sorts of vehicles over the years so the stretch was a piece of cake. I love my swap, parts are easy to buy at any parts store, it stops on a dime (manual brakes) and steers easily (manual steering). My 50 is a very comfortable ride on air with a stock 307 V-8, TH-350, 3:08 gear, cruise control, netted me 18 mpg on my last 350 mile interstate drive.

I recently sold a 1987 S-10 I had owned for 13 years, 12 of those years the truck was equipped with a 383 V-8, TH-350, stock 3:73 gears. I had zero issues with the frame, rear end or anything else.

Love them or hate them the S-10 chassis is quickly becoming the modern day Camaro sub frame swap. S-10 front clips are showing up under all sorts of vehicles.

Again, given the choice, I would have used a stock frame over the S-10 if I'd had a good stock frame.

[av8tr33337]

Sweet ride S10 fan. I hope mine turns out that nice. I hope you have more pics or a build thread somewhere.

[Katrina/10]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I think av8tr33337 pretty well summed it up for most guys who do it. It is viewed as being a lot cheaper than buying top quality aftermarket pieces to put on your stock frame to get independent front suspension and upgraded rear suspension. Many view it as being a lot easier and that may be.

I don't really view and 800$$$$ donor rig as "cheap" though. After that you are going to figure you will have to spend at least a couple hundred on new bushings and ball joints for most old S-10 suspensions just as you would for any other donor rig suspension that hadn't been recently rebuilt.

I'd have to think that a lot of guys actually do the S-10 swap because they think it is easy and then there are those who do it because it's what the "cool guys" are doing right now. The cool guys have it so I have to have it syndrome that we as truck guys fall into on a regular basis. Not that it is wrong but we do often follow the herd down the dusty trail rather than make our own trail because that is where the herd is going this week.

Personally and from 40 years of experience with these trucks the sheet metal just flat lines up better and fits better on a stock frame with a lot less hassles. That includes subframe swaps and frame swaps. When I did the subframe swap on my 48 in the early 80's it took longer to get the front sheet metal fitted and lined up than it did to swap the subframe onto the frame. I still have the hacked up inner panels and other panels that suffered the ravages of the swap.

Most S-10 swaps do mount the cab and nose high enough above the frame that you don't run into a lot of that but looking between the cab and frame it looks like a bad 4x4 body lift on some rigs.

Still, If you have no frame, a junk frame or maybe you got a deal on an old two ton grain truck with a perfect cab that you want to use for a half ton pickup head on as I have no issues with using the S-10 chassis when you don't have a good frame to begin with. I just hate to see near perfect frames pulled out from under these trucks and cut up for scrap just so a guy can scab an S-10 frame under them.

I totally agree with all the above.

[av8tr33337]

Thanks Mr48chev. That about sums it up for me, but not because it's cool, It's just my budget consideration.

[lolife99]

I love your truck S10Fan!

[S10Fan]

Thanks Guys, she's a 50 footer for sure but I've racked up 5000 miles since February this year.