points swap for PerTronics

[pimpston65]

i started my 283 with mild issues, once started it idled fine. i didnt need to adjust anything. my issues is starting. seemed the timing was off, but close enuf to start, just dragged like hell, and if the battery wasnt freshly charged it wouldnt crank fast enuf to start. so i thought the PerTronics was the way to go. any ideas as i wanna have a reliable(starting) truck. all comments will be helpful thks... i have the ignitor III type model 71181. stock coil, stock 283 no mods...

[LT1 Burb]

Thats the one I used and it was an easy install.

[pimpston65]

yelmer, told me about it awhile back. i found a new one for $41 so i grabbed it. im running a NOS delco acid filled battery and packard 3Q65 wires will i need to change any of that stuff

[fleetsidelarry]

pimpston, I understand you wanting to upgrade from points and I don't have anything against Pertronix, I ran one for years (Ignitor I)before switching to HEI, but why don't you sort out the timing (set the dwell, set the timing) and all starter related stuff first? is it hard to start cold or does it just give trouble when hot

[pimpston65]

i set the points to .09 with the feeler guage and didnt adjust timing or set the dwell. it will start cold and run, but once i shut it off and try to restart it is when its hard to start. temp is around 165 or so. so set dwell and timing first? a few degrees before TDC right?

[pimpston65]

ps this is my first attemp at points so bear with me, im just happy it started. i forgot to even set the points and was like i aint gettin spark!!! but at least i figured that out

[LT1 Burb]

I would double your point gap and try again.

[bonacker]

I agree with the other posts....getting rid of points is a good idea (gap should be .16, check with dwell meter). Pertronix is fine and I have heard good stuff about their products. But....you need to look at the whole picture, as suggested. Get the coil tested, especially if it is original. Load test the battery to make sure it is OK. Any corrosion on the battery terminals? The cables are tight and a ground strap from the block to the frame? Are the spark plugs gapped and good? Also the plug wires, old or new? And, of course, the timing is set correctly and the advance systems work. All these need to be up to par, especially on a points equipped engine. Good luck and keep us posted

[pimpston65]

cool, i will update on the progress. now i gotta drop another 20lbs of bolts off to the black phos coating dude. making ALL the bolts,washer, nuts and the like black phos coated and oiled to look new. only $50 gotta run the ups dude isa knocking!!!

[Sharps40]

That ought to be a window dizzy. Since it runs...

1. warm it up

2. Hook up dwell meter

3. Turn screw in window to set dwell at bottom of factory range.

4. Unhook and plug vacuum advance

5. Set timing to factory 4 BTDC.

6. Reconnect vacuum advance

7. Close hood and drive the helloutta it for 5000 miles

[pimpston65]

thks all i will get my tools out and set all the timing,dwell,gap on plugs and points. im sure once its done i will need to adjust the carb, but that will keep til next thread...

[pimpston65]

i did a dry compression test only 70lbs in each cylinder wtf. im just gonna get it running and drive it til it dies and rock my suburban til i rebuild the engine.

[pimpston65]

ima do a leakdown test also just to see where the leak is from

[Old Truck Man]

Originally Posted by pimpston65

i did a dry compression test only 70lbs in each cylinder wtf. im just gonna get it running and drive it til it dies and rock my suburban til i rebuild the engine.

If they are all equal a 70 pounds it might be ok. A compression test should be done with all the spark plugs removed and the throttle wide open. Sqiurt oil in each cyl and if the compression raises significantly its bad compression rings.or worn cyls. a big hotrod cam or a badly worn timing chain will cause low compression.

[pimpston65]

when i bought it 6 yrs ago it was stated as just rebuild wil all new guts i heard and saw it running on a test stand no leaks,knocks or smoke so i took it, and just last month started for the first time. i will go thru it once again before i put the cab to frame.

[Sharps40]

Set dwell (points gap) first!

If you set the timing first, changing the dwell (points gap) will advance or retard the timing (but the reverse is not true as the relationship is one way only)

1...Dwell (points gap)

2...Timing

3...Close Hood

4...Go Drive.

[pimpston65]

cant do number 4 as its just a roller. i started it in the frame rails with every part attached maybe i can just select the gear and go just gotta figure how to stop!!! thks for the sequence of events. cuz i would have jacked it up hehe

[Sharps40]

Yer welcome....couldn't figure why my old dodge was always too advanced or retarded when I double checked timing at the end of each tune up...its cause I timed it, then tweaked points and when checking....timing had changed with dwell/points changes.

So learned the hard way....dwell/gap first, then timing and finally carby!

[Old Truck Man]

You need to set your dwell with a dwell meter at 32 degrees. hook a vacuum guage & tach to the engine and adjust the idle screws to the highest vacuum at 850 rpm. If that don't work check the compression. Its impossible to properly tune up an engine that has compression issues flat cam lobes or loose timing chain. I prefer in most cases to use a factory GM Hei ignition. In some applications there isn't firewall clearance for the HEI. A 55 chevy car is onewhere you gotta have a small diameter distrubter. Ive used petronix kits in antique farmall tractors with good results. Ive learned that points ignition has a difficult job to perform with resistor plugs and the sorry corn gas we have today.

[Old Truck Man]

When I was a teenager there was a older gentleman who had a Desoto with a 354 hemi engine. It was running poorly so he took it to the dodge dealer for a tune up. the car had dual points. the more they worked on it the worse it ran. New points plugs wires rebuilt the carb. They where at wits end. Now his guy who owned it was a finicky tight wad. He even wrote down the mileage recorded on the speedometer and insisted no one drive his car on the road. Well the dealership shop fore man came by the junkyard where I worked. Was telling about the old hemi & problems. The guy who owned the junkyard told them bring the car here and ill tune it up for you. They brought it over on a wrecker with the rear wels off the ground. Telling not to put any miles on it. As soon as they left my boss had me unhook the speedometer cable. The he pulled the distrubuter cap and adjusted one of the set of points where the didn't close. set the gap on the remaining working set the same specs as a single point. Then He had me go for a ride with him we stopped at a gas station and put a half than of premium fuel in the tank. It was stil running crappy. Then we headed nort out of town. headed to the state line beer joints. Every straight stretch he floored the beast never letting it shift into high until the max RPM was achieved. by the time we made it to the beer joint it was idling and running perfect. The old guy who owned it never bought premium gas. never drove fast. and never opened up the four bbl carb. At the beer joint we talked up a drag race and went out and raced a oldsmobile & beat him. We returned back to the junkyard and hooked up the speedometer. Everything would have been fine & dandy except all the hot rodding had blown holes in the exhaust system. The dodge dealer had to put on new mufflers out of their own pocket.

[Sharps40]

Well if its been sitting for 6 years and not turned, and its truly well and properly rebuild, its prolly sticky valves/set springs. That's a long sit.

Start it, run it 30 minutes at 2000 rpm to break in the cam and then check the compression again dry and wet. May just be you need to free up the valves and run the scale off the cylinders. Heck if its a rebuild, it'll be as much as 500 miles before the compression tops out.

If compression goes up wet its rings, if it stays the same wet, its prolly valves. Compression specs will be in the Motor manual but should be in the 130 to 170 lb range (usually specked +/- 20 lbs) with all cylinders reading within 10% of each other on a good motor.

Luck!

[pimpston65]

thks i will do that tomorrow and see whats the deal cuz when its running it sounds strong and no misses or anything.

[j.kirn]

points is all I use and do not have any problems

[65CowboyCaddy]

I put a pertronix in my 250 a few months ago. I had trouble with starts, found that the resistor wire was the problem. Run a wire from the pos side of battery to the coil. See if it will start, won't be able to shut off until wire is disconnected from battery or coil. Search converting to hei.

[pimpston65]

ima stick with points for now, gonna keep it stock looking for HEI unless they make a type that looks like stock with points, but HEI