New guy and a C10 - A few drive train questions

[scootermcrad]

Hey everyone! Been lurking for a little while, but now that my '64 C10 is going to start getting some attention I have questions. I did some searches for some of these answers, but still have some questions...

First off, I grew up around my Grandfathers 65 C20, so it was just natural to always need one of these trucks. Little did I know, when I started poking around, I found one LITERALLY across the street in my neighbors back yard and it was going up for sale. A more than reasonable price and a title transfer and we pulled it over to my driveway.

She's real ugly and rough, but she's all there and I don't mind the sheet metal work it needs. Thankfully the sheet metal it needs is all the usual places, but NOT in some of the worst places to repair. The important part was that it was pretty much complete and with a little mechanical love, she's a driver, which is what I need right now.





The end product will probably be inspired by something like these two beauties... Will be awhile though.





First thing is first though... Get it on the road. I've got some earlier 16" wheels that need some rubber wrapped around them, then I will work on getting the stance right. It will probably sit closer to how the red truck above is sitting, maybe not quite as low, even. The most important thing to me is that I can USE the truck, which means maybe some helper bags or something to that effect. In parallel, I need to go through the brakes, fuel system, and the engine is a runner, but need to finish up the carb before I can get it turned over again.

All this brings me to the questions, though...

1st- I've been having a hard time getting a definite ID on the engine. It's a 230 or 250 or possibly even a 194 Inline 6. How do I tell the difference besides pulling the head?

2nd- I need a replacement dipstick tube (broke mine off flush with the block). Do I need part number 3951600?

3rd (and biggest)- I would like to do a TH350 swap on this truck. I know it's pretty well a bolt-up deal with the exception of the drive shaft, but what else do I need to know? Starter? Flexplates? Kickdown with a mult-carb setup (probably a 3x1 Offy setup)? How about torque converter selection for something that will mostly be just for driving around in (possibly daily) and with the occasional small trailer towing (which is why I'm making the switch)?

Any input you guys can offer me and any links to thread that may already be covering these questions would be appreciated!

Thanks guys! Excited to get started on this thing!

[TJ's Chevy]

1964 C10 - C20 had the options of a 230, 292, and 283. Your I6 is either a 230 or 292. If the truck is all stock an no one has changed out engine through the years then that will be a 230. The 250 wasn't an option in pickup truck until 66. Easiest way to tell if its a 230 is by the side cover height...4 inches and the fuel pump is directly behind the distributor. On a 292 the side cover height is 6 inches and the fuel pump is around the center of the block. Most 64's came with the 230 as far as 6 cylinders go. FWIW a 3x1 would be a tad much on fuel for a little 230 unless some top and bottom end work was done...which easily can be. If yer gonna leave the bottom and top end stock...an HEI and offy with duel singles would work fine. But if you want to do 3 singles then a Good HEI, headers, some head work, and a little more cam would be a good idea.

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by TJ's Chevy

1964 C10 - C20 had the options of a 230, 292, and 283. Your I6 is either a 230 or 292. If the truck is all stock an no one has changed out engine through the years then that will be a 230. The 250 wasn't an option in pickup truck until 66. Easiest way to tell if its a 230 is by the side cover height...4 inches and the fuel pump is directly behind the distributor. On a 292 the side cover height is 6 inches and the fuel pump is around the center of the block. Most 64's came with the 230 as far as 6 cylinders go. FWIW a 3x1 would be a tad much on fuel for a little 230 unless some top and bottom end work was done...which easily can be. If yer gonna leave the bottom and top end stock...an HEI and offy with duel singles would work fine. But if you want to do 3 singles then a Good HEI, headers, some head work, and a little more cam would be a good idea.

AAAA! That's GREAT information!!! Thank you! And as far as I can tell, everything should be basically stock. I also appreciate the comment about the 3x1. I was thinking that might be a bit much for the same reason, but figured I would throw it on the table to dig for comments. I have no plans (as of right now) to swap out any engine components unless I find a rebuild is in order. If I add the 2x1 intake I will make/purchase a header setup to complete the package. I love building exhaust, so that is certainly on the table as an excuse just to do some.

Tell me more about the HEI? Is there a conversion kit out there of some kind?

EDIT:
Just found this in the FAQ thread...
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=148346

Great info, right there! I was sort of trying to keep the underhood looking as stock as possible (less the multi-carb setup which will still get some period touches). Any real issues with the stock distributor that would make me want to lean towards HEI? I'm definitely open to the topic though. I suppose a Pertronix might be a consideration as well.

Keep the info coming, guys! Learned a lot already with just some basic guidance.
THANKS!

[TJ's Chevy]

HEI burns more fuel for a more complete combustion. High Energy Ignition is a nice name for it. lol If your looking for a stock look then a pertronix ignitor or ignitor 2 would be a fine choice...basically its an HEI setup built into the stock distributor...if you would like pictures of the setup I can post some. Another good HEI would be the Davis Unified Ignition...but that would take away your stock look. I think pertronix would be your best bet. That's the closest to stock looking HEI you'll ever find. lol It uses the stock distributor and cap...and separate coil....Like said if you'd like some pics I'll post em. But changing out to an HEI is simple...tons an tons of options out there. Another thing about an HEI over points is it just plain makes the engine run better...start easier and makes it run smoother. With dual singles and headers you'd probably be OK with the stock points....but if you want the stock look...then keep yer stock distributor if its still good and install a pertronix in it. It'll work nice.


Edit...Picture of my 292. Just for the heck of it...Maybe this will give you more encouragement. lol

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by TJ's Chevy

HEI burns more fuel for a more complete combustion. High Energy Ignition is a nice name for it. lol If your looking for a stock look then a pertronix ignitor or ignitor 2 would be a fine choice...basically its an HEI setup built into the stock distributor...if you would like pictures of the setup I can post some. Another good HEI would be the Davis Unified Ignition...but that would take away your stock look. I think pertronix would be your best bet. That's the closest to stock looking HEI you'll ever find. lol It uses the stock distributor and cap...and separate coil....Like said if you'd like some pics I'll post em. But changing out to an HEI is simple...tons an tons of options out there. Another thing about an HEI over points is it just plain makes the engine run better...start easier and makes it run smoother. With dual singles and headers you'd probably be OK with the stock points....but if you want the stock look...then keep yer stock distributor if its still good and install a pertronix in it. It'll work nice.


Edit...Picture of my 292. Just for the heck of it...Maybe this will give you more encouragement. lol

More good info. Thank you!

Probably hard to explain, but I'm sort of trying to keep the overall look of the truck as if it were a little hot rod built in the late 60's. Sitting right and just some minor hop ups to get it going down the road, and of course a complimentary exhaust, maybe Porters or something to that effect. Anyway, since an HEI probably wouldn't have been available in the late 60's, I may consider the Pertronix,if it is of benefit. However, I LOVE how simple the drop-in HEI is from the Nova, or whatever it needs. I definitely want the balance of having a nice driving and reliable truck with the late 60's hot rod vibe.

That 292 looks NUTS! What did you do for headers? Did you need a heat riser of some sort for that intake?

Thanks guys!

[TJ's Chevy]

Originally Posted by scootermcrad

More good info. Thank you!

Probably hard to explain, but I'm sort of trying to keep the overall look of the truck as if it were a little hot rod built in the late 60's. Sitting right and just some minor hop ups to get it going down the road, and of course a complimentary exhaust, maybe Porters or something to that effect. Anyway, since an HEI probably wouldn't have been available in the late 60's, I may consider the Pertronix,if it is of benefit. However, I LOVE how simple the drop-in HEI is from the Nova, or whatever it needs. I definitely want the balance of having a nice driving and reliable truck with the late 60's hot rod vibe.

That 292 looks NUTS! What did you do for headers? Did you need a heat riser of some sort for that intake?

Thanks guys!

The pertronix would be a good choice especially if yer doing duel carbs. Well...the headers are from clifford and so is the manifold. No I'm not using a heat riser, but sometimes I can feel the need for one. I bought the clifford manifold for the fact that the water heating system was a simple hook up...check out my build thread for pictures on that. Imop clifford headers are the best looking headers out there...even though you pay a fairly dear price for them...they are darn well made. Edit. I had a pertronix in my 292 at one time as well. Worked fine.

LOL! Encouragement video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoiM...fzpcUXyK_5-uiw

[66Submarine]

You just buy a later HEI distributor for/out of a '75-up truck with an inline six and plug it in there.

I'll also add that I'd just drive it as-is before buying a bunch of carbs. JMO, but I don't really feel that a wheezy little 230 needs that much induction. Even if you did gain some top-end power, you still have the PITA factor of two carburetors to contend with for a daily driven truck.

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by 66Submarine

You just buy a later HEI distributor for/out of a '75-up truck with an inline six and plug it in there.

I'll also add that I'd just drive it as-is before buying a bunch of carbs. JMO, but I don't really feel that a wheezy little 230 needs that much induction. Even if you did gain some top-end power, you still have the PITA factor of two carburetors to contend with for a daily driven truck.

Yeah, I will definitely be driving it as is, out of the gate. Figured I would know better after driving it for a bit, what it is I need to start messing with. I don't have any history on the truck at all, so for all I know, this engine could be garbage. I'm only assuming that someone loved it just enough to keep from blowing up the engine. A short drive will tell me more. And syncing up dual carbs will certainly take some effort. I certainly can't argue with that.

Did you not like your Pertronix unit? Issues?

[66Submarine]

Pertronix just eliminates the points adjustment, it's not an actual HEI. I had one of those in my current 250 before I took it out and put points back in it.

[Mathew21]

Welcome from Michigan, I'm glad to see another one being saved. Keep us updated on your progress.

[scootermcrad]

Anyone have any insight on that dipstick tube? I would like to get that part on order. Any help on that would be appreciated.

Also, I checked the Transmission threads, but didn't see a whole lot on putting a TH350 behind a 230/250 series engines. Anyone have any additional insight?

Originally Posted by Mathew21

Welcome from Michigan, I'm glad to see another one being saved. Keep us updated on your progress.

Thank you!! I appreciate it! I'm taking pictures as I go. When I get a little deeper into this thing, I'll actually start a build thread to track the progress. Pretty excited to give this thing some love! I think it will bring our little family some good times!

[66Submarine]

The real GM HEI is the superior system. The pertronix thing really just replaces the mechanical points with a Hall effect sensor to eliminate the need to mess with them every few thousand miles.

O.E. points or HEI for me, but YMMV.

[Captainfab]

For a TH350 upgrade you will of course need to remove your existing trans, bellhousing, clutch and flywheel. You will also need to remove the bellhousing crossmember. Then you will need a flexplate and corresponding starter. A small block flexplate and starter will bolt right up. There are 2 different sizes of flexplates. There is a 12-3/4" with 153 teeth and a 14" with 168 teeth. The starters for each have a different bolt configuration. Before deciding on which one to use, you will want to verify which starter bolt holes your engine has.

Once the flexplate and starter is determined, you can bolt up a TH350 and torque converter. You will need a trans crossmember to support the end of the TH350. There are a few aftermarket crossmembers or you can simply use a factory trans crossmember from a '63-'87 truck with an auto trans. If your radiator does not have a built in trans cooler, you will need to add an aftermarket external trans cooler. Then you will likely need to have your drive shaft shortened and add a shifter of your choice.

I may have a dipstick tube. I'll have to look when I get to the shop tomorrow.

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

For a TH350 upgrade you will of course need to remove your existing trans, bellhousing, clutch and flywheel. You will also need to remove the bellhousing crossmember. Then you will need a flexplate and corresponding starter. A small block flexplate and starter will bolt right up. There are 2 different sizes of flexplates. There is a 12-3/4" with 153 teeth and a 14" with 168 teeth. The starters for each have a different bolt configuration. Before deciding on which one to use, you will want to verify which starter bolt holes your engine has.

Once the flexplate and starter is determined, you can bolt up a TH350 and torque converter. You will need a trans crossmember to support the end of the TH350. There are a few aftermarket crossmembers or you can simply use a factory trans crossmember from a '63-'87 truck with an auto trans. If your radiator does not have a built in trans cooler, you will need to add an aftermarket external trans cooler. Then you will likely need to have your drive shaft shortened and add a shifter of your choice.

I may have a dipstick tube. I'll have to look when I get to the shop tomorrow.

WOW! That is fantastic info! Thank you very much! The starter flywheel combination as well as the crossmember was the biggest question mark in my head. That's just what I was looking for. I can fab up a crossmember pretty easily with some biscuit mounts, if a stock Auto crossmember doesn't appear in my lap.

Thanks for your help, and definitely let me know if you have a tube floating around.

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by 66Submarine

The real GM HEI is the superior system. The pertronix thing really just replaces the mechanical points with a Hall effect sensor to eliminate the need to mess with them every few thousand miles.

O.E. points or HEI for me, but YMMV.

Okay, thanks!

[TJ's Chevy]

Originally Posted by scootermcrad

Okay, thanks!

But know this...if you use the GM HEI it'll take your "period look" that you are wanting away. The GM HEI looks similar to the one in the picture of my 292.

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by TJ's Chevy

But know this...if you use the GM HEI it'll take your "period look" that you are wanting away. The GM HEI looks similar to the one in the picture of my 292.

Yep! The info you guys are sharing is super helpful, though. I think they are both great options. I do agree, the look will be very different. Going to start with points since it's setup that way now, then probably do the Pertronix and see how I like it. The cost is reasonable enough that if it doesn't work out then I can part with it and try the HEI, or even stay with points.

[TJ's Chevy]

Originally Posted by scootermcrad

Yep! The info you guys are sharing is super helpful, though. I think they are both great options. I do agree, the look will be very different. Going to start with points since it's setup that way now, then probably do the Pertronix and see how I like it. The cost is reasonable enough that if it doesn't work out then I can part with it and try the HEI, or even stay with points.

Last I checked at Napa the Pertronix Ignitor was $95 for the unit and $40 for the coil. The distributor I bought off ebay for my 292 was $65 and works fine.