1978 chevy bent frame NEED HELP.

[paximus]

I got a 78 chevy short bed, the person who gave it to me said he was in a very small accident a few years back, it wasnt all that bad and he replaced all the damaged stuff and it looks brand new now, the only problem is the steering will not turn sharp left, for example it wont turn sharp enough to make U-turn. My mechanic who I have known for twenty years took everything apart, steering box etc everything was FINE, so he kept looking and couldnt find what was preventing the steering from turning sharp left, and then he discovered it, he said there is a VERY SLIGHT BEND in the frame, the result of the above mentioned accident. He said it is not much of a bend at all and is very slightly bent and you can hardly see it with the naked eye but it is just enough that it is somehow causing the steering to not turn sharp left, you turn left and about half way through it just WONT GO ANYMORE and he said it is because of this bend.

My question is can this be fixed easily, he said yes but he doesnt do that kind of work, other people I have spoken to said no it cant be and the truck is effectively a junker now, keep in mind this is a VERY CLEAN truck all original inside, no dents or dings, very clean and general runs like a baby when she is tuned right so I disagree that it is a junker I still drive it everyday I just dont make U-turns which can be a pain in the ass sometimes but it is something I can get around and I am not too worried about it, so I am wondering if any of you have dealt with this and what kind of price should I expect to get a SMALL BEND straightened out and do any of you have any idea how the bend is effecting the steering, my mechanic tried to show me but I dont know enough to understand what he is pointing out. So what do you think I dont want to trash this truck it is absolutely beautiful stunning truck and while I can drive it as is I would like to get it fixed if the price is reasonable. I am Tucson Arizona is anyone knows someone here who can do this please let me know, and please anyone else feel free to chime in as to what you think about this and how I can go about getting it fixed.

[f.monroe]

I can't see a bend so slight that it can't be seen with the naked eye causing that problem. Post some pics and get a second opinion.
Frank

[swissarmychainsaw]

I agree with Monroe, it does not sound like the "bent frame" is the problem.

Assuming this is RWD, you have a steering "knuckle" on either side, these are connected to the steering box by a center link, and some tie rods, etc:

[IMG]www.dippy.org/svcman/image/0221.jpg[/IMG]



My bet is that one or so of your steering parts is bent.

Center your steering wheel, how many turns right will it go?
Crawl in the front and take some pics of your steering components.

Now center it again and turn full left. How many turns was that?
Crawl under and take more photos.

It's hard to beat the scientific method.

[paximus]

Well see several people have said the exact same thing, one was a career body guy who inspected the truck and said no way is the frame bent. HOWEVER you did ask a good question, like I said it will only go about HALF WAY LEFT but it goes WAAAAAY too far right, it turns right way more than it should and to the point the wheel rubs the fender, so what does this suggest.

I have had body guys, mechanics etc all look for it, a few say bent frame the rest say no bend in frame but NONE of them know what the problem is so here I am.

Thanks for the help I really appreciate it, this is a head scratcher for me I love this truck and I wish I could find someone who could find out what is wrong with this steering.


I will work on getting some pics good idea.

[UKNOWME]

Plenty can look but have any actually put on frame rack and/or checked alignment? Almost sounds like the steering gear shaft is rotated too far right. I'm assuming the pitman arm will on go on when centered though.

[paximus]

The accident the guy was in was such that he slammed a telephone pole with pass side front corner, pass headlight basically square on and pass tire. So does that tell us anything as to way it turns too far right and not far enough left.


No nobody has put it on a rack most of the people i talked to were pretty disinterested because its an old truck and they dont see a big payday coming out of it, thats why I wanted to ask around here so next time I go somewhere I am informed and not at their mercy to just make up whatever they want. You are all being very helpful I am taking notes here. Ill get to the bottom of it. There are two people I trust fully my mechanic and my body guy, Mechanic said frame bent body guy said no way frame is bent he thinks its steering box but mechanic took steering box out and examined and said steering box is fine, so now you can see what I am dealing with here, I wil spend the damn money to fix it if someone will step up and tell me whats wrong with it. I know you guys cant be certain since you cant see it but I am researching the things the you are suggesting and comparing that with what is going on with the truck, I think you are all right and it is a steering component that is bent or broke but everyone seems to say no that is not the case because they got under the truck and didnt see any damage except for mechanic who is a good man and wouldnt lie to me, he says frame is bent, I dont think he is lying but he may be reading in to something under there too much that has nothing to do with this. Anyway keep it comin! I appreciate you guys time.

[paximus]

I guess I should just find a front end specialist in town and see what they say, I just hate going in to a place like that ignorant and they take advantage of me, at least talking to you guys I can get some of the language right and sound more informed and less easily taken advantage of.

[paximus]

I was thinking if he hit a telephone poll direct hit on pass side tire that could push the tire RIGHT with force and maybe ROTATE the steering shaft as you suggest, that would make sense, what do I do to determine that? Because now it turns way too far right and not enough left as if THE SHAFT LITERALLY WAS ROTATED BY FORCE TO THE RIGHT, that is exactly what is happening, you may be on to something.

[Just call me Sean]

Steering box. That's what I had to change on mine after I was hit on the front passenger side and the truck wouldn't turn left but a little bit after.

[UKNOWME]

I'd say buy a new gearbox and try that. Then I'd get it aligned too

[paximus]

That is what my body guy keeps telling me, needs a new steering box. I think I will try that, thanks guys, I think we may have solved this!

[tucsonjwt]

I am not sure where you went, but I have gotten good advice from PAB (Precision Alignment and Brake).

I have a friend who did not get a good result with aligning his Ford F250 at
PAB, but I guess those have unique alignment issues - he went to the Ford dealer and got a good result.

PAB diagnosed a vibration as a driveshaft issue in my C20 so I took it to Simmons and they rebalanced the driveshaft, so that was a correct diagnosis. (My truck had a gear vendor installed by the previous owner and they never rebalanced the driveshaft after it was shortened, and they did not clearance the crossmember enough to allow for the increased size of the gear vendor.)

You could call in to Jerry Simmons' shop talk radio show on Saturday morning and ask your questions. He gives good advice, but I don't think they are alignment specialists, so he will likely refer you to someone else.

Another good source for info is Jeff Morgan on 19th just off Park. Jeff is one of the nicest guys in the auto repair business and he has an old square to haul his bracket car to the dragstrip. He does the basic repairs on my old vehicles. He referred me to D&D alignment on south Park near his shop and I took the old Cavalier there. D&D is a good size shop but not much to look at - I think the owner does all of the work. I don't know if he does accident repairs.

For my two cents, I have had plenty of old beaters and a few with frame issues, and I think it would take a visibly bad frame to get what you have. I would put a straight edge alongside the steering shaft just to see how it looks. Also, I wonder if the rag joint has issues. All of this would be apparent to a good alignment/frame shop.

Just a word to the wise - even good mechanics make mistakes. I have paid big $$$ in this town and not received big service. So, it pays to do just what you are doing and learn as much as you can before going to somebody who is just guessing like we are.

A last resort is one of our two Chevy dealers. Just talking to the service manager will give you an idea of how much a diagnosis will cost. That information will help you evaluate the estimates you get from independent shops. If you can get someone to test drive it in the parking lot and observe the moving parts, I think that would yield the best diagnosis.

[cadillac_al]

The steering arm may have been removed for some reason and not put back in the right spot. I think if you count your turns from straight ahead to all the way right and then straight ahead to all the way left there will be a difference. I have that problem on my Impala but I have been living with it for too many years. I hope to fix that next summer.

[paximus]

Thanks Tucson Man! Good advice.


It turns RIGHT TWICE as many times as it does left, its waaaay off center to the right, kinda like the US congress.

[tucsonjwt]

I would not put any parts in your truck until you are certain that you have zeroed in on the specific problem. If you do need a steering box, I got a good one about 12 years ago from Autozone (of all places) and had Bud's Outback install it, when he was still in business. Bud said it was a good part and it is still working fine. They were the cheapest. As I recall, the core charge was about $80 back then, and the rebuilt box only cost about $110. Today I would search the online OEM vendors for a Delco rebuild.

[Dead Parrot]

Possible scenario that results in your problem.

A PO is driving down the road. A dog or skunk leaps out. The driver turns one turn of the steering wheel to the left to miss the dog or skunk. Hits the pole. Truck is towed to repair shop due to messed up right wheel. Maybe the PO said just make it drivable as fast as possible. Repair shop fixes the alignment not noticing the steering wheel is still one full turn to left. Your PU now has one more turn to the right then it does to the left.

[paximus]

That is exactly how he hit the poll Parrot, a kid came out of blind alley way on minibike, he turned sharp right to avoid kid and hit pass tire and fender directon poll at about 30 mph, I think he forced the entire steering box to shirt right hence it turns waaaay right and not much left.

We will see, gonna work on it this week.

[paximus]

I just figured out where he hit the pole at, he hit the poll at TWO TURNS TO THE RIGHT, so when I go to two turns to the right NOW, then the amount of turns FROM THERE left and right are equal, so what that means is the impact at two turns to the right IS THE NEW CENTER the impact recentered the whole gear box somehow, that is what is going on here, does this make sense to you guys because that is what I just discovered. So I guess that means a new gear box is in order?

[paximus]

You guys have all been a big help, most forums are not too accepting of newbies waltzing in and asking dumb questions like I did but you guys were all very cool about it and I really appreciate that, I think I will be visiting a lot more often. Thanks much for all your time and help. I will post updates.

[Just call me Sean]

Originally Posted by paximus

I just figured out where he hit the pole at, he hit the poll at TWO TURNS TO THE RIGHT, so when I go to two turns to the right NOW, then the amount of turns FROM THERE left and right are equal, so what that means is the impact at two turns to the right IS THE NEW CENTER the impact recentered the whole gear box somehow, that is what is going on here, does this make sense to you guys because that is what I just discovered. So I guess that means a new gear box is in order?

That's what happened to mine. Barely turned left but turned right too much.

[Phillip Pennartz]

Does the truck dog track? the frame may not be square causing the truck to favor turning one direction over another. have somebody follow you and watch for this.

[bdiamond]

And this guy you bought it from drove it for a few years? We had a stockcar that got wrecked and had skipped a tooth in the steering box. X whatever were up to on replacing the steering box. Maybe a bent spindle after that? Are the tie rods the same length?

[greg64]

Paximus, do you have a pickle fork for separating tie rod ends? If so, I can think of something you can try to determine if the steering box is really at fault.

[nheller76]

I Just changed my steering box and it helped with that problem. It may just be jammed up in the box but its not a huge $ part and its a good project to cut your teeth on. This is a great place to ask questions on how to do it. I got my part from Rock auto, it was a reman of the exact same box that was in my truck.

[frankenglide]

I just want to make an observation here. Im not exactly sure what "re centered" means. If this truck took a hard enough hit to recenter the the steering then I believe you would have to have a badly damaged/twisted shaft or pinion gear in the box. Until I understood the extent of the damage I wouldn't drive this truck anywhere except to the shop. I hope I'm wrong. Just my .02. Stan.