230ci Extremely Hard to No start

[Hydra]

Hi,
The 230ci in the truck is extremely hard to start if it does at all.Ive completely gone through the fuel system and it still wouldnt start so I took it the shop.They found it was a defective coil in the summit HEI and replaced it and it would start fine for a couple days,getting progressively harder to start.it has the ground start and wire ground on the coil is hooked up and all the connections look good.this is the third time its doing this (the hard start) and the first time was with the points distributor and regular oil filled coil. Has anyone had anything similar? Ive researched for hours and and tried everything and still nothing. It does have a rochester single barrel that likes to weep from the gaskets,could it just be some mystery problem with the carb? after its started and warmed up its runs fine and if you shut it off itll still be a hard start but it will start.

[vince1]

Well I would look to see what kind of spark you are getting. If it is not a stream of blue, find out why. Not the right coil? Getting the right power to the coil?

What is the compression like? Over 120?

Carb kits are cheap and plentiful at NAPA.

These things usually start really easy. I just touch the starter and she is going, but that was after going over a lot of the wiring that the PO had messed up.

Good luck with it.

[Hydra]

its the matching summit coil and module (its a summit HEI).Its getting 12v at the coil terminal with the key in the on position.It has a carb kit in it from the shop although i dont know what the compression is like.One its started it runs fine though which is whats stumping me. I have not gapped the plugs since the hei install,it seems like a long shot but could it be that?

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by Hydra

its the matching summit coil and module (its a summit HEI).Its getting 12v at the coil terminal with the key in the on position.It has a carb kit in it from the shop although i dont know what the compression is like.One its started it runs fine though which is whats stumping me. I have not gapped the plugs since the hei install,it seems like a long shot but could it be that?

Do you have a dedicated 12v wire to the distributor?
Or are you using the old wiring?

And what's your initial timing?

[vince1]

What does the spark look like while cranking with a spark plug wire close to ground? You should confirm if it is good or bad.

It won't hurt to look at the plugs. What is the gap supposed to be, .035" for non-HEI and .045" for HEI ignition? I usually never change them unless the center electrode is rounded, indicating lots of miles on them, or if they develop a miss when under load.

[Hydra]

.45 for hei,i havent checked the spark yet as Im not home and t i had to get a ride,but most likely its very weak as thats how it was last time (yellow spark)

[Hydra]

its running a dedicated 12v to the unfused ignition on the fuse box.and Im not completely sure as I didnt do the install and the mark is off but I would assume its up to speck as I have alot of faith in the guys at that shop and theyve been in the industry all their lives.

[geezer#99]

Beg, borrow or buy your own timing light!
They likely set it to spec.
Maybe 4 degrees.
You need to bump it up to 12 to 14 initial.

[Hydra]

will it not start on spec?

[geezer#99]

Sure it will!
Just like it does now!
With today's crappy fuel combined with cooler weather, you need more timing.

[Hydra]

will do ,when i get home ill see what i can do about the timing and try whatever i need to to get it started

[60chevyjim]

what kind of choke does your carb have , manual or other ??

[Brad54]

Is the block grounded to the chassis and firewall?

-Brad

[Hydra]

its a manual choke,the block is grounded uses a heavy gauge cable to the negative post on the battery

[TJ's Chevy]

If it progressively got worse starting than more then likely its Not timing. If it was timing it would be hard to start from the get go. If it is too far advanced the engine will have a hard time cranking over....to retarted and it will back fire all the time. Check to see if the plug wires are out of order. That is a common problem. Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4. Start at the number one plug wire and see if all are on the correct terminals going by the firing order. Like mentioned if that hei is Not getting a full 12 volts then you will have problems. Get a timing light and set the initial timing at 8-10.

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by Hydra

its a manual choke,the block is grounded uses a heavy gauge cable to the negative post on the battery

They came with grounding straps to the firewall and chassis for a reason...

It may or may not be the cause, but if something is degrading, it's a slow issue due to repetition. I've heard of no block grounds screwing with things... for instance, I once knew of a Camaro with a B&M cable-actuated shifter, and over time the cable kept melting the sleeve it was in and welding the internals of the hardware together... the block was grounded to the battery just like yours and every other car on the road is, but he didn't have ground straps, so the electrical system was grounding through the only metal contact between the driveline and the car--the steel cable going from the shifter to the trans.

-Brad

[Hydra]

Plug wires are all correct,cleaned and gapped the plugs,and the coil is showing 12.16 at the connector with the key in the on position.also grounded one of the plugs against the block and its showing a blue,seemingly strong spark.I'll see if I can get a timing light with an advance dial (the pointer only goes up to 4 degrees).and dumb question but in assuming that is 10-12 btdc

[geezer#99]

Easiest way to see if it's timing related is loosen the distributor and rotate it 1/2 inch ccw.
Measure from somewhere that will never move to the hose barb on the vac can. Remember that number in case you want to return the distributor back to where it was.
You can always put a light on it later to see what the timing is.

[Hydra]

Adjusted the timing and it ran for a bit (albeit pretty badly) so I went to go get a timing light, and when I get back,nothing. I don't see any ground straps so I'll get that fixed but I could've swarm I had seen some on it before.I just really need to get it fixed as I daily it.

[geezer#99]

When you adjusted it, which way did you turn the distributor?
Did you take a measurement so you can return it to where it was?

[Hydra]

When I adjusted it I turned it clockwise,I did mark where it was originally.

[blown240]

Your going to want to turn it counter clockwise. Turn it to where it was before, and then go counter clockwise about a half inch or so. that will advance the timing a bit and it should help.

[63burban]

Try a little either or gas down the carb before you try to start it, choke may not be closing all the way. Lots of ground wires are always a good thing.

[Hydra]

Turned it that half inch and still nothing,just cranking and cranking and ccrankingthe choke works fine, and its definitely getting fuel as the fuel filter before the cab is full and the accelerator pump is working,I have no idea honestly.it's in the garage so where it's in the mid 50's so it's not ridiculously cold.

[vince1]

It's time to get someone else to have a look because that shouldn't take long to figure out and two heads are better than one. Put it outside with the hood up and I predict somebody will be by within a half hour.