Why's everybody hatin' on the 305?

[Oberon67]

I notice that the first thing a C10 buyer on here often does when he gets a new project truck is to yank the 305 out of it.

Now I understand that the 305 isn't the path to power. But isn't it a serviceable engine for a daily driver? Is anyone here using one for that, or is a 350 the minimum acceptable SBC?

#tryingtounderstand

[Jeepwm69]

I'm running a 305 in mine. Have zero interest in swapping it out.

If you're replacing the engine anyhow it makes sense, but swapping it out just because is a lot of work for not a lot of difference.

[allengator]

Originally Posted by Oberon67

I notice that the first thing a C10 buyer on here often does when he gets a new project truck is to yank the 305 out of it.

Now I understand that the 305 isn't the path to power. But isn't it a serviceable engine for a daily driver? Is anyone here using one for that, or is a 350 the minimum acceptable SBC?

#tryingtounderstand

The 305 is a decent engine for transportation, but lets face it... these trucks are TOYS for the most part. If we wanted basic transportation, there are much better, newer, more efficient options.
If I were to purchase a truck that needed NOTHING and had a 305 in it, I would likely drive it until the engine needed attention, THEN replace it with a 350... but since its basically the same price to rebuild a 350 than a 305, replacing a tired engine with an upgrade is a no-brainer.

I have read article on building STRONG 350+HP 305's... but at the end they always tell you the same money would build a much better 350...

[MalibuSSwagon]

I had a 305, decent enough engine, ran it for years towing cars and daily driving. Hopped it up a bit with an RV cam, longtube headers. I did end up swapping it out for a 5.3L last year because I couldn't get the tune nailed down for the TPI, and just wouldn't run right. Needed it reliable for Home Depot runs and whatnot. The 305 sitting under my bench now waiting for something to drop it in, tuning issues with ancient ECMs aside, it's a strong runner.

[slotard]

They're adequate, but not worth building with how cheap a 350 can be had for.

That said, if I was building an engine for anything more than a basic A to B work truck, I wouldn't go 350 either - I'd go bigger.

[Oberon67]

Originally Posted by slotard

That said, if I was building an engine for anything more than a basic A to B work truck, I wouldn't go 350 either - I'd go bigger.

When you could have a 400 in the same space, there's really nothing to lose, is there.

[68c10owner]

Ive got a 305 in my truck. Being that I have a computer controlled carb and ignition and living in California there is only so much I can do. Going to a 350 requires a different PROM for the ECM. My truck has pretty decent power for what it is. Its my only vehicle so I cant go too crazy anyway. I plan to do a 350 swap at some point but the little 305 does pretty good and gets decent mileage. Some better gears would really wake this thing up.

[Malo83]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

Ive got a 305 in my truck. Being that I have a computer controlled carb and ignition and living in California there is only so much I can do. Going to a 350 requires a different PROM for the ECM. My truck has pretty decent power for what it is. Its my only vehicle so I cant go too crazy anyway. I plan to do a 350 swap at some point but the little 305 does pretty good and gets decent mileage. Some better gears would really wake this thing up.

The 305 in my 83 is still running strong with 230K original miles, but like Anthony said mine has the computer and E4ME carb also. She's been my daily driver since day one, looking down the road an E-rod LS3 6.2 transplant will be in the works, smog legal in Cali for now, a little pricey but in the long run well worth it.

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-126-30.pdf

[100%Chevy]

I bought a new K-10 in 1982 with the 305 engine in it.Couldn't get a 350 in a 1/2 ton truck in 82.
I put 200,000 plus miles on it before the compression rings wore out.Did not burn oil or smoke.Just wouldn't pull anymore!
I have a 305 in my 68,c-10 now until I get the 327 rebuilt and it runs great.
Excellant engine for a daily driver and you can buy one for much less than a 350.
Mike.

[Blessed66]

Not a thing wrong with the 305 - but like you're starting to see - if you're going for performance, it doesn't make sense to build the 305.

Reliability, towing, etc? Sure, nothing at all wrong. My 84 still has the 305 and I plan to drive it until it grenades. And the truck used to pull a small camper back in the day with no issues.

If you have it, and it runs fine, use what you have.

If you want to make impressive numbers at a dyno or a race track... you might want to upgrade the engine to a 350 (cheapest route) first.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by slotard

I'd rather have a 302, but not a 302 with the cam that typically comes in one. The Chevy 302 has the same bore/stroke as the Ford 302/5.0, which does well in trucks. I suspect a Chevy 302 with a moderate cam would be better just about everywhere vs a 305. On a truck though, I'd prefer bigger... at least throw a 327 crank in there (I think the main journal size is bigger on the 350 so you can't use that).

I'm not sure I'd want a 400 crank though, 3.75" results in a lot of wall loading. If I did have one, I'd go with the longest rods I could. I might be more inclined to go 377 (3.48" stroke, 4.125" bore).

I know the bore and stroke of the chevy 302 is 4.0x3.0. How is a 3.0 stroke better than a 3.48 stroke from the 305? The bigger bore will help the 302 breath on the top end but the 3.0 stroke has never been known for any kind of low end torque. In a heavy truck I`d want the low end pull over top end power.

The 3.75 stroke may put more load on the cylinder walls but it in no way means its got less longevity. Especially is you use longer rods to take that load off of the cylinder wall.

The 305 has a bad reputation similar to how the 396 bbc did. People see it as a small engine that costs the same or more than the bigger counter parts. That does not mean they cant work well. On the 3rd gen camaro site there are plenty of guys with mild 305`s knocking on the 12 second door.

Originally Posted by Malo83

The 305 in my 83 is still running strong with 230K original miles, but like Anthony said mine has the computer and E4ME carb also. She's been my daily driver since day one, looking down the road an E-rod LS3 6.2 transplant will be in the works, smog legal in Cali for now, a little pricey but in the long run well worth it.

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-126-30.pdf

Thats funny because I have been eyeballing that same exact set up for my 85. Now that I had a knowledgeable guy rebuild my E4ME carb and got my mixture control solenoid working the truck runs good and has some pep to it. It feels as strong as my old 90 K5 blazer with a TBI 350. Getting about the same mileage too.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

I know the bore and stroke of the chevy 302 is 4.0x3.0. How is a 3.0 stroke better than a 3.48 stroke from the 305? The bigger bore will help the 302 breath on the top end but the 3.0 stroke has never been known for any kind of low end torque. In a heavy truck I`d want the low end pull over top end power.

Stroke is not the only thing that dictates torque production.

[Skeetman]

I had and bought new a 1978 C10 with a 305. At 66,000 miles the cam shaft failed, for some reason GM used soft steel and the cams wore out. I had the camshaft replaced. 12,000 miles later that 305 started burning a lot of oil.
All said I have a bad taste for the 305. But if you have one and it runs good drive it.
A year after I sold the truck I found out GM had a recall for the camshaft defect, so I submitted my repair receipts and GM reimbursed me.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by Tom

Stroke is not the only thing that dictates torque production.

I never said it was. But I have enough experience to know that a longer stroke in a heavy vehicle puts you ahead of the "torque production" game.

Back in the day you could get a truck with a 307 but the experts at GM decided that the 305 was a better engine. There is no reason to not use a 305 in a truck unless you are doing some heavy hauling and in many cases even the 350 wont be up to the task. For a daily driver, like mine, there is really no reason to go to a bigger engine. THe only reason I would do it is costs. It`s actually cheaper to buy a 350 crate engine than to rebuild a 305. Hell the 305 long block from GM cost more than their 350 crate. Doesnt make a lot of sense there but thats what it is.

This isnt rocket science guys. Some of you just seem to want to argue over nothing. Someone disagrees with you so you argue to prove a point. no possible way the 305 could be a decent engine, right? Whatever. Go ahead, put a large bore short stroke engine in your 5000lb truck and enjoy it. I`m plenty happy with my 305 and not that I got the carb rebuilt and everything is working as it should it makes plenty of power and brings in some decent mileage.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Oberon67

I notice that the first thing a C10 buyer on here often does when he gets a new project truck is to yank the 305 out of it.

Now I understand that the 305 isn't the path to power. But isn't it a serviceable engine for a daily driver? Is anyone here using one for that, or is a 350 the minimum acceptable SBC?

#tryingtounderstand

Small bore means no ability to really add more power, and everyone adds more power. I'd rather have a chevy 302 then a 305. People don't really daily drive 29+yr old vehicles very often.

[riz]

If you've got a 305 you should plan on replacing the cam around 70K miles.

I had one in a 1977 Impala and loved it. If tunes right it gave some 350s a run for their money.

RIZ

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by Tom

Small bore means no ability to really add more power, and everyone adds more power. I'd rather have a chevy 302 then a 305. People don't really daily drive 29+yr old vehicles very often.

In a truck Id rather have a 305. The longer stroke makes better torque. True the small bore hurts max power but for a daily driver the 305 does just fine. And plenty of people drive these old trucls daily. My 85 GMC is the only vehicle I own so it is my daily driver for sure.

[slotard]

Originally Posted by Tom

Small bore means no ability to really add more power, and everyone adds more power. I'd rather have a chevy 302 then a 305. People don't really daily drive 29+yr old vehicles very often.

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

In a truck Id rather have a 305. The longer stroke makes better torque. True the small bore hurts max power but for a daily driver the 305 does just fine. And plenty of people drive these old trucls daily. My 85 GMC is the only vehicle I own so it is my daily driver for sure.

I'd rather have a 302, but not a 302 with the cam that typically comes in one. The Chevy 302 has the same bore/stroke as the Ford 302/5.0, which does well in trucks. I suspect a Chevy 302 with a moderate cam would be better just about everywhere vs a 305. On a truck though, I'd prefer bigger... at least throw a 327 crank in there (I think the main journal size is bigger on the 350 so you can't use that).

I'm not sure I'd want a 400 crank though, 3.75" results in a lot of wall loading. If I did have one, I'd go with the longest rods I could. I might be more inclined to go 377 (3.48" stroke, 4.125" bore).

[Marla]

I had a 305 in a 1977 Camaro...not a problem with it and it ran good and strong...just sayin'...Marla

[encasedmetal]

have a 305 in my daily (60 miles round trip) but I'll be swapping to a LS motor soon I think. I have the sm465 trans, and mated with the 305 in the mtn traffic is not the best when I shift into 2nd and everyone behind is giving me the finger

[Pontiac1976]

If your building for more power or top power 350 0r go 383-400.
But I went from 454 to 305 to save fuel
Because I could use most 350 parts part stash, 305 get better fuel economy heads & exhaust manifolds.

[Cowdogpete]

had several 305s back when they were common.

As I recall they were bad about clattering. Not great on power, nor fuel mileage.

Never was a fan.

[natedogg]

My 85 still has the numbers matching 305. Runs good and strong. Its still a small block chevy and I would rather have a 305 than any strait 6, 4.3 v6 or crappy diesels that came in C10's. However, If the 305 in my truck grenades, I will swap in a Goodwrench 350.

[slotard]

Why can you make a 4x3 Ford engine work well in a truck (they were in LOTS of them) but not a 4x3 Chevy engine?

Stroke is far less important than heads/cam, and Chevy 302s tend to have big heads/cam resulting in minimal bottom end. People don't tend to bild them for grunt either, as they tend to go bigger in that case, but they can be.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by slotard

Why can you make a 4x3 Ford engine work well in a truck (they were in LOTS of them) but not a 4x3 Chevy engine?

Stroke is far less important than heads/cam, and Chevy 302s tend to have big heads/cam resulting in minimal bottom end. People don't tend to bild them for grunt either, as they tend to go bigger in that case, but they can be.

First of all, look at the engines you are trying to compare. The Ford 302 is a shorter deck, shorter rod engine and the cylinder heads have the smallest runners. Sure, they work in a Ford truck but GM decided to get rid of the 3.0 stroke back in 1969 for a reason. They brought it back in the mid 90s for the baby LT1 but never in a truck. I kinda think there is a reason for that.

And the 302 engine engines came stock with the same 165cc heads as all the other sbc engines such with at least 300hp. They were nothing special by any means. And they have big cams because you have to review the crap out of them to make the power because the short stroke lacks low end power. Given the same heads, cam and compression my money is on the 305 for more low end power.

And stroke is every bit as important as the rest of the combo. Any problems builder will tell you that ALL parts need to work with each other.