'93 350 into '68 C10 what to expect question

[kd6tas]

My brother found a '93 350 truck engine and we are fixing it up to put in my '68 long fleet C10. I bought the pickup in '96 from the daughter of the original owner who died. It was his hunting and boat towing truck. The original 307 was replaced by a 70's 350 shortly before I bought it. I'm in California. The 350 in it now is getting tired. It uses oil and occasionally fouls the number 6 spark plug. It has an Edelbrock aluminum dual plenum intake, Thermoquad, HEI, headers and glass packs. The transmission is 3-speed manual. The 3.73 rear end was replaced with a 3.07 unit. The idea is to use the '93 engine with as much of the existing stuff as possible. No TBI or ECM or automatic transmission. I'm wondering what problems we are going to have to overcome to do this. If anyone knows of any old threads where this was discussed, please refer me to them. Any wisdom at all regarding this will be appreciated. My name is Bill. Thanks in advance.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by kd6tas

My brother found a '93 350 truck engine and we are fixing it up to put in my '68 long fleet C10. I bought the pickup in '96 from the daughter of the original owner who died. It was his hunting and boat towing truck. The original 307 was replaced by a 70's 350 shortly before I bought it. I'm in California. The 350 in it now is getting tired. It uses oil and occasionally fouls the number 6 spark plug. It has an Edelbrock aluminum dual plenum intake, Thermoquad, HEI, headers and glass packs. The transmission is 3-speed manual. The 3.73 rear end was replaced with a 3.07 unit. The idea is to use the '93 engine with as much of the existing stuff as possible. No TBI or ECM or automatic transmission. I'm wondering what problems we are going to have to overcome to do this. If anyone knows of any old threads where this was discussed, please refer me to them. Any wisdom at all regarding this will be appreciated. My name is Bill. Thanks in advance.

1) in 1986 they changed the intake bolt angle your alum may or may not work with it depending on what it is.. age wise..
2) the 1986-88 they went to a 1 piece rear main seal.. so you'll need a 1988 up 350 flex plate if automatic.. flywheel if manual..
other than that they are the same engine.. with different heads and cams..
and will bolt in.
3) the water pump on our trucks is the short type.. the 93 will have a long pump.. if you what to use the 68 engine dress (brackets ) you'll have to change the water pump on the 93 to the short type.. if the 350 in the truck now has the long pump already it'll be the same...
4) the 93 350 used an electric fuel pump, the mechanical pump boss on the block is there, under the block off plate.. on most of these.. you will have to check if the fuel pump lobe is there.. if not you'll have to add one.. or run an electric pump.. shining a light up the boss for the pump you should be able to tell if the lobe is there or not..
and with you changing the water pump.. I'd pop the timing cover and add a new timing set anyways.. and new oil pan and timing cover gaskets..

[kd6tas]

Thank you for the reply.
Regarding number 1 in your reply the intake is an SP2P or similar from the 70's. Sounds like it may not work.
Regarding number 2, that reminds me of the starter. Will the current starter work?
Regarding number 3, because the '93 has roller tappets and swirl heads I was thinking roller rockers and a gear drive. I'm thinking the gear drive may require a larger front cover and long water pump. Any thoughts? How about reverse cooling; might that be an issue?
Regarding number 4, my brother was saying the hole for the fuel pump push rod is missing. We were wondering if there might be a guide available so that hole can be drilled. Have you heard of anything like that?
Another potential issue we were wondering about was the clutch linkage. Are the holes there and in the same places?
Thanks again for the reply.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by kd6tas

Thank you for the reply.
Regarding number 1 in your reply the intake is an SP2P or similar from the 70's. Sounds like it may not work. an intake made before 86 most likely won't work
Regarding number 2, that reminds me of the starter. Will the current starter work? yes it will
Regarding number 3, because the '93 has roller tappets and swirl heads I was thinking roller rockers and a gear drive. I'm thinking the gear drive may require a larger front cover and long water pump. Any thoughts? How about reverse cooling; might that be an issue? the 93 350 doesn't have roller rockers/geardrive/reverse cooling...... only the lt1 did that was in the impala/camro/firebird t/a and vette, not the trucks and the gear drive was only the water pump
Regarding number 4, my brother was saying the hole for the fuel pump push rod is missing. We were wondering if there might be a guide available so that hole can be drilled. Have you heard of anything like that?
Another potential issue we were wondering about was the clutch linkage. Are the holes there and in the same places?
Thanks again for the reply.

With you asking this.. what 350 you got??
a 93 lt1 or a 93 350..
Does this have a distributor??
if no.. lt1
if yes it's a standard 350

[kd6tas]

Originally Posted by James the III

With you asking this.. what 350 you got??
a 93 lt1 or a 93 350..
Does this have a distributor??
if no.. lt1
if yes it's a standard 350

According to my brother it's a truck motor with roller tappets and iron vortec heads. I haven't seen it.

[B. W.]

that's good, must be a 96 or later. Nothing wrong with the earlier TBI motors but the vortecs have more HP. If it is a vortec you intake will not fit, different bolt pattern.

[Shinysideup]

What are the numbers by the bellhousing?

[B. W.]

#1 - the two center bolts are a different angle post 86, the manifold can be modded by elongating the holes with a drill bit
#2 - yes
#3 - 93 truck motors do NOT have roller lifters (tappets)
#4 - if the FP push rod hole is missing there is a jig to drill it BUT the block should be disassembled to drill
#5 - clutch - the block may be tapped for the ball, may not. If not tapped there will be a boss & you can drill & tap

[James the III]

Originally Posted by B. W.

#1 - the two center bolts are a different angle post 86, the manifold can be modded by elongating the holes with a drill bit
#2 - yes
#3 - 93 truck motors do NOT have roller lifters (tappets)
#4 - if the FP push rod hole is missing there is a jig to drill it BUT the block should be disassembled to drill
#5 - clutch - the block may be tapped for the ball, may not. If not tapped there will be a boss & you can drill & tap

The engine is set up for a roller cam.. you can get the spider and put a roller in cheaply.

[B. W.]

Correct, it should have the bosses cast in the valley but you may have to drill & tap. That means for #'s 1,3,4 & 5 there's possibly some drilling going on!

[jtinpdx]

I think you'll need a different temperature sending unit. The threading is different on the newer engines.

[Shinysideup]

Im using the same setup out of a '94 1500. I am swapping to a roller cam. The lifters,pushrods,bones and spider can all be had off the same year camaro for instance. The fuel pump all you need is the pump and rod and it works. Dont let people talk negative about these swirl port heads,they are great torque and economy units that are exactly what one wants for a truck on the street.

[kd6tas]

Originally Posted by Shinysideup

Im using the same setup out of a '94 1500. I am swapping to a roller cam. The lifters,pushrods,bones and spider can all be had off the same year camaro for instance. The fuel pump all you need is the pump and rod and it works. Dont let people talk negative about these swirl port heads,they are great torque and economy units that are exactly what one wants for a truck on the street.

That's what I thought (re: the heads).
Torque and economy are what I want.
The pickup isn't exactly light.
It has a metal camper shell, some crap in the back and 3.08 gears.
It's going to be gone through and freshened up.
I need to make sure I don't overdo the cam choice.
I'm thinking something around 268 max.

What did you put the '94 engine in, and did you do anything non-stock to it?

[James the III]

Originally Posted by Shinysideup

Im using the same setup out of a '94 1500. I am swapping to a roller cam. The lifters,pushrods,bones and spider can all be had off the same year camaro for instance. The fuel pump all you need is the pump and rod and it works. Dont let people talk negative about these swirl port heads,they are great torque and economy units that are exactly what one wants for a truck on the street.

Yup as long as one knows that the swirl port heads are all done at 4500-5000 rpm.
It's the lt1 cam you are putting in,, peak much higher than the heads..

[Shinysideup]

Im building/restoring the truck currently, a '72 cheyenne super swb. After much debate I am going with this Lunati Voodoo cam(LT1). It doesnt need a stall converter,has power quickly, and works nice with the dual plane weiand intake and headers/2.5 exhaust etc. http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2010
I am also using a 700r4 and need to swap the stock 3.08's for 3.73's , which also came stock so hoping to locate another complete diff to swap.
Cam does need new suitable springs and pin the rocker studs.
If you post the numbers on the back of the block I could help verify year/model. Should be 14093638.

I think that covers it. Im trying very hard to stay true to my vision of a peppy, but smooth driver that is superior to stock but still be able to throw anyone the keys and no worries.
My '51 on the other hand shakes like an epileptic at the stoplight and screams after 3500rpm

[Shinysideup]

There is nothing wrong with these heads, they are better than those double-hump heads everyone wanted back in the day. Sure, there are Better heads, if you realize we are not building race engines(I have those) but staying with matched parts and staying on plan for a nice streetable TRUCK engine to do what trucks do. The LT1 cam makes great power out of the gate and in normal driving wouldnt even see 3k rpm so whats the deal? An RV cam wouldnt make the same overall power so not useful,too much like stock.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by Shinysideup

There is nothing wrong with these heads, they are better than those double-hump heads everyone wanted back in the day. Sure, there are Better heads, if you realize we are not building race engines(I have those) but staying with matched parts and staying on plan for a nice streetable TRUCK engine to do what trucks do. The LT1 cam makes great power out of the gate and in normal driving wouldnt even see 3k rpm so whats the deal? An RV cam wouldnt make the same overall power so not useful,too much like stock.

Did I say there was anything wrong with the heads????????????
no I did not..
I did say that if you cam the engine for a power peak above their breathing.. it will not be the ideal combo.. and as long as you know this..
The LT1 cam power curve goes well past the heads..
You will give up power under the curve, and well the peak is a moot point as it'll be sucking through a straw at that point.

If this cam is a copy of the 70 lt1 cam it is lacking at the low end..without 11 to 1..

[Shinysideup]

So then whats the ideal cam with the above mentioned goals/equipment? link to voodoo cam is above.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by Shinysideup

So then whats the ideal cam with the above mentioned goals/equipment? link to voodoo cam is above.

Welp you picked a cam that is 1600-5600rpm
peaking at 5600 rpm and heads that are all in at 4800.. 5000rpm TOPs..
most likely 4500 rpm..
If it was me and I was looking for power low end and mid range it be a cam that peaked at 4500 not one that peaks 700-1100 rpm after the heads run out of breath..

A cam with a h/p peak of 4500-4700 and a torque peak of 3200-3600 would be where I'd be if I was looking at low end /mid range power.. and was using swirl port factory heads..

[CaptRMW]

While everyone is pondering roller cam and best heads to use. A 350 with 350 horsepower won't pull the hat off your head with those 3.08 gears and a 3 speed transmission.

[kd6tas]

Originally Posted by CaptRMW

While everyone is pondering roller cam and best heads to use. A 350 with 350 horsepower won't pull the hat off your head with those 3.08 gears and a 3 speed transmission.

That's not true. I have a '68 C10 long fleet with a California smog 350; lucky if it's 250 horsepower (I added bolt-on breathing parts and HEI). I changed it to 3.08 from 3.73. If you keep in mind that it's a half-ton truck it's okay. That means you, the stuff in the back, the shell, and the tongue load all need to add up to no more than 1000 pounds. It adds up fast. 3.73 works better if you're overloading it regularly, but as a street truck that's empty most of the time 3.08 is a fine choice. I certainly don't want to go back. Another mistake would be to over cam the new engine (we're talking '93 - '95 flat tappet, swirl head truck engines, not LT1, not Vortec heads).

[Racer382D]

]

Originally Posted by CaptRMW

While everyone is pondering roller cam and best heads to use. A 350 with 350 horsepower won't pull the hat off your head with those 3.08 gears and a 3 speed transmission.

Man, I must have been doing it wrong.... this was a 300hp. Engine (true 300hp) with a 3 speed and 3.08's.... and it would outrun most stock mustangs at will.
You must wear your hat too tight lol

https://youtu.be/jSPq49iZ_JU

[Shinysideup]

Small world Capt, Im the guy who helped you load those longhorn bedsides. Ya, I guess I hijacked his thread because got told my cam was wrong(?) and trying to straighten that out, and I have OD trans and 3.73 so...

Let me know if you see any bucket seats around

[CaptRMW]

Hey Shiny hows the weather on your side of the bay? Too bad you guys aren't neighbors so you could swap gears with him. It would be more interesting if he would verify the ratio on his since that rear gear trans combo would be a dog and he should have mentioned that. With a fouled spark plug it should just about shake the fillings out of your teeth taking off from a stop.

[Shinysideup]

No cam you recommend then huh? A cam that peaks at 4500, hmmm sounds just like the .450 lift stocker LOL

The voodoo makes more power than any smaller cam at this low rpm and definetely more power say above 3k, so unless building a "revver" engine it seems to me the best it CAN be. Yes obviously big power is made higher you go but remember intended use. Point being to make it better you would have to upgrade everything(heads ,cam,pistons,intake etc) and have different operating parameters when said and done. More $ spent and a less streetable machine. Im trying to pep it up on a budget and keep the manners and usability.
I like talking this out(seriously) cuz I want the best it can be.