Need advice on S10 frame damage

[52ratrod]

Hey guys I'm just looking for some advice. What would you do with this cancer? After blasting just paint it or cut it out and seam a piece in.

Thanks

[mongocanfly]

May not be a option for you but I'd just find another frame..if its that bad where you can see it ,it may be worse were you can't see

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by 52ratrod

Hey guys I'm just looking for some advice. What would you do with this cancer? After blasting just paint it or cut it out and seam a piece in.

Thanks

you will cut some of the front off when you swap, to about the middle of that oval hole, I would just find a piece from another frame and stitch in because thats where the sway bar mounts.

rust in that area is pretty common, the open frame end always picked up dirt and water.

[HUSSEY]

Being on the front there I wouldn't worry about it much as long as you patch it up.

[MARTINSR]

Ok, anti frame swap guy here.

What in the friggin world would you have in your head to want to use such a piece of crap frame to "improve" on what you had? My God, you could EASILY upgrade your original frame with less work and money than swapping in a rusty piece of crap.

If I was going to do one of these swaps (CAN'T imagine why) I would at least use a super nice S-10!


Brian

[52ratrod]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Ok, anti frame swap guy here.

What in the friggin world would you have in your head to want to use such a piece of crap frame to "improve" on what you had? My God, you could EASILY upgrade your original frame with less work and money than swapping in a rusty piece of crap.

If I was going to do one of these swaps (CAN'T imagine why) I would at least use a super nice S-10!


Brian

Im using it because i dont have the original frame. Its on a mid 60s chevy frame roght now but it doesnt line up properly with the transition from cab to box. The s10 is a great alternative

[dsraven]

what truck is sitting on top, or will be sitting on top? post a few more pics so we can see what you are dealing with.
if that part of the frame is rotted through then look closely at the rest, any low spot that would collect dirt etc.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by 52ratrod

Im using it because i dont have the original frame. Its on a mid 60s chevy frame roght now but it doesnt line up properly with the transition from cab to box. The s10 is a great alternative

I'm no fan of frame swaps either but that is the best justification of doing a swap I've seen. "The frame I have isn't working out" works.

I'd still rather see you find a stock 3100 frame and hang independent on the front and change rear ends and maybe rear springs and have a truck that actually has some continuing value for the $$$$ you put into it. S-10 swap trucks are viewed by the builders and prospective buyers as cheap builds and no matter how much you put into it there is a limit to what you can get back out compared to one on a modified stock frame or custom frame.

That said, you are going to end up cutting off the frame horns just in front of the steering box anyhow to clear and can cut out that section and put in a filler piece easily enough if that is the only bad spot. I'd go over every inch of it before I did anything with it. You don't want to spend a bunch of money on it and then find out you have other rusted out or weak spots.

[joedoh]

I dont know how many years ago you bought your last AD martin, but most I find havent been on the road since the 80s and have sat in field rusting worse than what 52 is showing. and mostly I find grain trucks or longbeds, finding a nice 1/2 ton short isnt really a common occurrence and when it does happen they are easily 3x the price.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I dont know how many years ago you bought your last AD martin, but most I find havent been on the road since the 80s and have sat in field rusting worse than what 52 is showing. and mostly I find grain trucks or longbeds, finding a nice 1/2 ton short isnt really a common occurrence and when it does happen they are easily 3x the price.

I just bought a frame a few years ago for $200 (as I remember it was $200.)

Brian

[iowaboynca]

bear in mind Joedoh that we live out in Cali and are spoiled when it comes to frames...

52...
I'm in the camp of try to find a replacement if economical... if not patch it like mentioned above. (or try to find an original too.

[hogfarm]

Junk guy in town gets old S-10's all the time,he wants $100.00 each,I thought about buying a couple,but I have enough junk already.I'm using stock frame on both my trucks

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by iowaboynca

bear in mind Joedoh that we live out in Cali and are spoiled when it comes to frames...

52...
I'm in the camp of try to find a replacement if economical... if not patch it like mentioned above. (or try to find an original too.

yeah even if I found a rust feee california frame for $200 (because thats normal) it would still cost another 3x to ship it or pick it up, so I think my original statement stands.

[dsraven]

check the area around the steering box mount for rust like that, since it is located roughly in the same distance back from the front of the frame.
have you tried a pick n pull or kijiji? you could always cut a front section off a good frame because they weld together just rear of the front wheel.

[HUSSEY]

Funny how you get the S10 frame haters but never the OE frame haters.

[mr48chev]

I don't have an issue with guys who don't have a decent 3100 short box frame to start a build with and use and S=10 or Dakota (fits better than S-10 frame under their build. What I hate seeing is guys who have or buy nice 3100 short box trucks with good frames and then rip the stock frame out and stick an S-10 frame under the truck. Add to that some ask more for the stock chassis than they paid for the truck or the S-10 donor.

Figuring when you run and S-10 frame most likely you will have to:
Rebuild the whole front suspension because it has well over 100K on it
.
Buy a pair of spacers for the front and possibly the rear because the S-10 is too narrow.

Swap the two wheel drive for a wider four wheel drive rear so as not to run spacers.

If you bag it, you buy the bag kit for the front and modify the front to take bags and quite often replace the complete rear suspension using a 4 link.

If you don't want to figure out how to mount the cab, nose, bed and bumper you buy a 1500.00 kit to make it a bolt on deal and the kit often sets the body much higher than you had planned.

If you set the body low you have to cut up the sheet metal inside the front end to clear the frame horns, steering and control arms.

The it's so cheap to do isn't that cheap if you do it right, nor is it that quick and easy if you do it right.

One last thing, unless you bought the Donor as a complete truck with a title (my suggestion as the best way) or as a complete unit from a wrecking yard with a good letterhead sales receipt including the vin stamped in the frame you are taking a big chance at getting a frame from a stolen rig, one that has a lien against it or one that when the legal owner of the donor or family members can come back on you with a claim as they hold the title to the frame. If you do the swap and don't have it properly inspected by the proper authorities, you may run the chance of your insurance not paying off in a wreck or being sued because your assembled rig had never been inspected. I'm not trying to spread fear but if you do the frame swap it is in your interest to have the rig inspected and documented.

[joedoh]

I dont really care what people think about frame swaps, especially guys that havent done one or driven one. thats like saying you hate pumpkin pie and havent tried it. (I have tried, and hate, pumpkin pie so I am not saying these opinions arent valid either)

as far as value, I have seen the opposite to be true, a nicely done S10 swap will be worth more in ADDED value than a nicely done MII swap, because the details are where the difference is made, and no one drives with mirrors under the truck. to clarify, a MII truck with patina will sell for close to what a S10 swap with patina will sell for, but will usually have a higher build cost. the MII swaps that sell for crazy money usually have a crazy amount of detail and finished paint.

In my recent experience, THIS IS NOT WHAT BUYERS WANT these days. Most buyers enjoy a nice ride, amenities like EFI and cruise control and highway gears in a body they can park anywhere, without worrying about door dings, and can haul a load of bricks home for a project. At least that is the guys who buy my trucks, they usually have or have had a "ratrod" that takes coaxing to start, beats their kidneys up, is a sauna in the summer with rattly everything that made them deaf, just miserable to drive. The guy who bought the 47 test drove a 6.0 liter T56 AD swap truck and while it was loud and fast, the 4.3 auto in the 47 was something he could drive every day.

Martin is a valuable guy on this forum with his knowledge and wit and drill bit placement, but he is a bit out of the loop. if rust free 1/2 ton AD frames are commonly $200 he should make his living exporting them to literally every other city, state, and country in the north americas.

I agree with mr48. dont build without the registration for the AD already done, dont use a frame you dont own outright, maintain the history of paperwork for your build, and make sure you know the rules in your state for assembled vehicles. aside from that sage advice though, it bears mentioning that just as many guys in history have done camaro or other types of clips, changing the axles and engines and lietrally all but 2/3 of the straight parts of the original frame. so, I guess 2 6' sections of straight framerails are where people draw the line between love and hate.

[b-mac]

I put a WTB ad on Craigslist for my S-10, and some kind soul who was going to do a swap, but never got around to it, just gave it to me.

Lots of S10s in the world. Although this part could easily be patched, is there similar rust in the low spot under the cab, that just hasn't rotted through yet?...

To be fair to MartinSR, if you can find an AD frame for similar money, it would probably be less work in the long run.

The s10 swap is more complicated and time-consuming than it seems.