Steering/Alignment Help Please

[C10_ustacould]

I am working on the truck formerly known as "Project Underhaulin" and I've run into a situation with the steering and alignment. After the alignment the steering is "twitchy" and the is a screeching noise when turning to the right, so I put it up on blocks to investigate. I shot more grease in all the zerk fittings to see if it would have a positive effect on the steering and the noise, unfortunately no change. But while I was checking the steering I noticed the wheel didn't turn the same amount in both directions. What I'm hoping to do is start fresh.

I figured I should share the truck's set up. It's lowered 4/6 with 2.5" spindles and 1.5" springs up front and 6" with springs in the rear. The front suspension uses '73 and up components. And the steering box is mounted with 3/8" spacers due to the '67 frame.

I took some measurements and noticed the for tie-rods were different lengths. The left side is 16 3/4" and the right is 16". Should the center link be centered in the frame?

So... I'm thinking I should center the steering gear and the center link and readjust the tie-rod ends to center it up and gain the correct toe. I'm also thinking of pulling all the shims in the upper control arms and having it put back on the alignment rack.

I'd really like to hear some advice from those of you with alignment experience. Thanks in advance.

[LockDoc]

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I'm bettin' the back edge of the rim is hitting the lower "A" arm when you turn right. That would account for the screeching noise. If you have any wheel weights on the inside of the rim check to see if they are still there or are shaved off.

LockDoc

[Robznob11]

I am having some twitchy issues as well but I have much more extensive work and parts than you. I would recomend that you leave the shims alone. They adjust the caster and camber. Niether should atribute to your twitchy feel. They affect tire wear and weather it pulls to the side. Also self centering. I would center the gear box and then adjust the tierods to be equal lengths. I did this on mine not sure its correct but makes sense to me. I would think if they are different lengths it will do as you said yours is and turn more on one side. I believe the twitchy ness to be that you either need more to in or because of the drop you are having some bump steer issues. Some people try to run near zero toe but dont take into consideration the rear wheel drive will push the tires out while going down the highway so you need some toe in when measured static. Make sure its at ride hight and the suspension is settled when you pull your mesurement.

[KQQL IT]

Wondering of the center link is wrong. Seems like every time twitchy is an issue, the centerline is an issue.

[uncle]

Nothing to do with alignment, but some of the twitchy feeling ( according to a friend mine that techs go cart racing) is from the angle your tie rods end up after lowering. Depending on how much truck is lowered will effect it also. The tie rod ends up running almost level or at opposite angle it normally does. I’ve had one truck that was lowered 4” in front and drive like a dream and one that was 4.5” and never could get all the twitchy feeling out. Used same brand parts on both trucks. This is only a theory but made sense when he showed me. Probably why lots of folks don’t go crazy low on static drop anymore because of driveability factor. Again I’m no mechanic and only a theory.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by uncle

Nothing to do with alignment, but some of the twitchy feeling ( according to a friend mine that techs go cart racing) is from the angle your tie rods end up after lowering. Depending on how much truck is lowered will effect it also. The tie rod ends up running almost level or at opposite angle it normally does. I’ve had one truck that was lowered 4” in front and drive like a dream and one that was 4.5” and never could get all the twitchy feeling out. Used same brand parts on both trucks. This is only a theory but made sense when he showed me. Probably why lots of folks don’t go crazy low on static drop anymore because of driveability factor. Again I’m no mechanic and only a theory.

That is bump steer sir. As the suspension goes up and down the angle of the tie rod causes the tires to toe in or out. I when they go out the truck will feel unpredictable.

[clay68c10]

Jack it up, pull the front tires, and see if anything has been rubbing (like a wheel per LockDoc). While it’s up, see if your steering wheel lock to lock changes from how it was.

Sounds like you may have 2 or 3 problems; something rubbing, the steering gear not centered, and maybe the center link or something else not installed correctly.

The shims for the steering box may be throwing off your centering. I’ve only had 68 and later trucks, so I’ve never had to do the shimming. I do know if you have a bent front frame horn that it makes it hard to get the steering right since the distance between pitman and idler are not right and it throws off the steering geometry. Not sure if this dimension is causing any of your problem, but I have dealt with it before.

[C10_ustacould]

I removed the pitman arm last night and centered the steering box by counting turns. What I though would happen is, based on the fact that there are 4 key-ways in the output shaft and the pitman arm, the arm would have been misaligned and by moving it a quarter turn it would correct my issue. Well the output shaft doesn't even turn enough to accomplish that. With that idea debunked I began to wonder if the box being spaced over 3/8" is causing the issue. I don't think that to be true as it would require me to shorten the passenger tie-rod and lengthen the driver side more driving them farther from being equal. So... if I've evaluated my research correctly I'm left with taking everything back to "zero". By this I mean centering the center link (if that is the correct place to start), make the tie-rod ends equal, and possibly modify the frame to accept the steer box without spacers. What do y'all think?

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by C10_ustacould

I removed the pitman arm last night and centered the steering box by counting turns. What I though would happen is, based on the fact that there are 4 key-ways in the output shaft and the pitman arm, the arm would have been misaligned and by moving it a quarter turn it would correct my issue. Well the output shaft doesn't even turn enough to accomplish that. With that idea debunked I began to wonder if the box being spaced over 3/8" is causing the issue. I don't think that to be true as it would require me to shorten the passenger tie-rod and lengthen the driver side more driving them farther from being equal. So... if I've evaluated my research correctly I'm left with taking everything back to "zero". By this I mean centering the center link (if that is the correct place to start), make the tie-rod ends equal, and possibly modify the frame to accept the steer box without spacers. What do y'all think?

I definitely think you sould center it up and then set your toe 1/8 in and try that. I doubt the 3/8 spacers are causing the issue but a BFH and torch could ease your mind. But i would try center and toe first. The un even rods will cause a bunch of negative response to the driver. That alone helped mine a bunch. But I have forward and narrow arms and air ride so Im pretty sure to finish cleaning mine up i will need some sort of bump steer kit. Which is not hard except that it will probably contact my tire...so Im currently looking for a type 5 bent tie rod that will fit. If thats even made.

[harpo231]

What did the alignment guy do ? Need to know that if just started after the fact .

[Boog]

Buck a couple pics of under the front end might help. As already mentioned the center link can be installed backwards and WILL cause "twitchy" symptoms even after a proper alignment. Do not depend on alignment techs to catch it as many of today's techs have never worked on a truck this old and even if they had they still might not catch it.
The 3/8" the sector is spaced over should not be a problem. Shorten the left side tie rods 3/8" and lengthen the right side tie rods 3/8" to even them out. You need to turn the wheels lock to lock to be sure the rims are not contacting the lower control arms. If they are it will limit the turn either way. The screech and scrub sound can likely be the wheel contacting the lca or the tie rod arm of the spindle. I run 8" rallys on mine and had to grind some off that point of the spindles.
We look forward to see what you find.

[kwmech]

The inner tie rod ends should be pointing outward towards the bumper. Check this! It has been mentioned with no affirmation whether or not this is correct

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

I definitely think you sould center it up and then set your toe 1/8 in and try that. I doubt the 3/8 spacers are causing the issue but a BFH and torch could ease your mind. But i would try center and toe first. The un even rods will cause a bunch of negative response to the driver. That alone helped mine a bunch. But I have forward and narrow arms and air ride so Im pretty sure to finish cleaning mine up i will need some sort of bump steer kit. Which is not hard except that it will probably contact my tire...so Im currently looking for a type 5 bent tie rod that will fit. If thats even made.

I'm definitely going to center it up tomorrow. I think the shorter passenger side tie-rod is having a great effect on the condition.

Originally Posted by harpo231

What did the alignment guy do ? Need to know that if just started after the fact .

I didn't watch him do the work, and I failed to ask for a print out. I know the owner so my plan is to take it in after making these changes to have them re check everything.

Originally Posted by Boog

Buck a couple pics of under the front end might help. As already mentioned the center link can be installed backwards and WILL cause "twitchy" symptoms even after a proper alignment. Do not depend on alignment techs to catch it as many of today's techs have never worked on a truck this old and even if they had they still might not catch it.
The 3/8" the sector is spaced over should not be a problem. Shorten the left side tie rods 3/8" and lengthen the right side tie rods 3/8" to even them out. You need to turn the wheels lock to lock to be sure the rims are not contacting the lower control arms. If they are it will limit the turn either way. The screech and scrub sound can likely be the wheel contacting the lca or the tie rod arm of the spindle. I run 8" rallys on mine and had to grind some off that point of the spindles.
We look forward to see what you find.

The wheels do not show evidence of rubbing, and all of the wheel weights are untouched. The squeal begins as soon as you turn the wheel to the right, it doesn't matter if you start from center or returning from a left turn.

Originally Posted by kwmech

The inner tie rod ends should be pointing outward towards the bumper. Check this! It has been mentioned with no affirmation whether or not this is correct

Right now the inner tie-rods are mounted on the back side of the center link, threads and nuts pointing towards the bumper.

Thanks for the replies, it's much appreciated!!

[Boog]

So it's tire squeal? That is sounding like a toe out condition. Does it return to center ok after the turn?

[C10_ustacould]

We did a bunch of inspecting and measuring today. We removed the center link with the tie-rods attached and made them equal length. After reinstalling everything we set the toe-in at about a 1/16" using a tape measure, I'll have it checked by an alignment shop. I think I'm going to try and get them to use BMERDOC's suggested alignment specs.

There are a few things I'm going to have to fix. The steering box is leaking at the input shaft, I think I can reseal it. And, when I checked the tension on the belt I noticed the whole pump flexes forward. Finally the steering is VERY easy, and with the box leaking I wonder if the pump is putting out too much pressure. Is that possible??

Again, thanks for the input.

[Robznob11]

Is it a stock engine? Or ls swap? If its a swap its very possible that the pumpnis putting out to much....the valve in the back needs to be changed to the old style and some people don t do it.

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Is it a stock engine? Or ls swap? If its a swap its very possible that the pumpnis putting out to much....the valve in the back needs to be changed to the old style and some people don t do it.

It’s a first gen small block, 350.

[C10_ustacould]

Well, we think we are pretty good at the moment... but we took a detour to get here. The power steering box began to leak badly, likely from an over-pressure from the pump. The steering had been very easy, you could turn it lock to lock with your pinky while stopped. So I took drastic measure, I put a manual box on it... yep, a manual box. Our plan includes doing vintage air with a Front Runner accessory drive system. I also plan to swap to a CPP 500 series box because it fits the non-dimpled '67 frame. With those plans well in the future I didn't see a reason to spend the time or money on a new box or pump. Tests on the stands show equal turns right and left and we have the toe-in set at 1/16th of an inch which I hope with drive well. We'll see in the morning... late morning as we've been at it most of the day and just came in from the garage. I'll let y'all know how it goes.