Help needed with column shifter

[Tim64]

Hey Folks,
I was just reading a thread on 3sp. shifters and the different ones people replaced their old column shifter. I would like to keep my column shifter if at all possible, but it is very sloppy and sometimes it’s hard to get in into reverse. I’ve even had to get under the hood and move it into reverse that way. Big pain! I’m not really sure what parts need replacing to tighten things up. I could sure use some help and guidance on this problem.
Thanks, Tim

[Shorty Cox]

Tim, What you describe is a problem all of us have with the 3-on-the-tree shifters. I too wished to retain my stock shifter. To my knowledge there is not a supplier for parts for the stock shifter. The problem you have is caused by ware on several parts within the shifter. The good thing about the parts is, they are real metal, and can thus be built up with a welder. Somewhere on here is a post I did describing what I did to my shifter parts to rebuild them. After doing so, I have not had any problem with my shifter "crossing" up. I will try to find that post and get it on here for you.

Shorty

[Tim64]

Hey that's very cool. I wil look forward to it. If you have some pictures that would great too.
Thanks, Tim

[Jdub]

+1. id love to know how to make my column shifter work properly. thats basically all thats keeping me off the road right now. about 50% of the time, it wont go into the correct gear. sometimes 1st is R. sometimes 2nd is R. and sometimes R is first. everyone once in a while i cant even bang it out of neutral.

[3speed 6cyl]

I found it EZ to start from the tranny up when trying to rebuild or fix your column shift unit. I've posted PICS that might be a bit diff than yours. Whereever I'm at and I see a 63-66 chevy truck I'll ask the owner if I could take a peak under the hood if possible after telling them I'm restoring mine, so I've looked at at least 5 or 6 column shift tranny set ups and here's what I've found. The 2 arms connected to the tranny each have three positions. One has Rev., Neut and 1rst. the other has 2nd neutral and 3rd. NOW some differ in that my arms both point down like another Over drive tranny I seen. the other had the 2-N-3 arm pointing up(the closest arm to the front of the truck). Your tranny wil not let you switch gears of one arm unless the other arm is in neut. Know the positions of your tranny arms in each gear MOST IMPORTANTLY NEUTRAL POSITION OF BOTH TRANNY ARMS because this is how you can aline your whole shifter linkage unit from where your shifter bar rods link to the column just outside the firewall. STEP #1 rebuild/replace gromets in both arms(I did one with a new gromet an the other with 2 washers, original pin style and a hard metal sleeve the fit tight in the arm and snug around the shifter rod and this was much more mechanically sound and tighter than the OG gromet style which had to much play for me). I greased them good. STEP #2 in neut pos. of both arms adjust the rods connection so that the male notches of rod column union align perfect with the middle female notch. This should all be aligned somewhat in the middle of the column shifter window to allow versatility in shiftin up and down equally. If your arm gromets are seriously damaged your shifter rods will be all over the place, hitting your clutch linkage/arm.and or your rod could be pushing through the eye of the tranny arm and hitting the other arm. It's a tight fit under there so make it mechanically tight. I couldn't see spending more than $15 and a lot of elbow grease. GOOD LUCK hope the pictures help.

[Jdub]

Originally Posted by 3speed 6cyl

I found it EZ to start from the tranny up when trying to rebuild or fix your column shift unit. I've posted PICS that might be a bit diff than yours. Whereever I'm at and I see a 63-66 chevy truck I'll ask the owner if I could take a peak under the hood if possible after telling them I'm restoring mine, so I've looked at at least 5 or 6 column shift tranny set ups and here's what I've found. The 2 arms connected to the tranny each have three positions. One has Rev., Neut and 1rst. the other has 2nd neutral and 3rd. NOW some differ in that my arms both point down like another Over drive tranny I seen. the other had the 2-N-3 arm pointing up(the closest arm to the front of the truck). Your tranny wil not let you switch gears of one arm unless the other arm is in neut. Know the positions of your tranny arms in each gear MOST IMPORTANTLY NEUTRAL POSITION OF BOTH TRANNY ARMS because this is how you can aline your whole shifter linkage unit from where your shifter bar rods link to the column just outside the firewall. STEP #1 rebuild/replace gromets in both arms(I did one with a new gromet an the other with 2 washers, original pin style and a hard metal sleeve the fit tight in the arm and snug around the shifter rod and this was much more mechanically sound and tighter than the OG gromet style which had to much play for me). I greased them good. STEP #2 in neut pos. of both arms adjust the rods connection so that the male notches of rod column union align perfect with the middle female notch. This should all be aligned somewhat in the middle of the column shifter window to allow versatility in shiftin up and down equally. If your arm gromets are seriously damaged your shifter rods will be all over the place, hitting your clutch linkage/arm.and or your rod could be pushing through the eye of the tranny arm and hitting the other arm. It's a tight fit under there so make it mechanically tight. I couldn't see spending more than $15 and a lot of elbow grease. GOOD LUCK hope the pictures help.

Man! That is one clean tranny! I wish mine looked like that? Where can I find these grommets you speak of? How difficult is the replacement process?

[Tim64]

Hey 3Speed,
Thanks for the pics. Could you post some where the rods meet the column at the notches area. I think that is where my problem is. At least I can see the male ones have been slipping out of the female ones. (leave this one alone I didn't know how else to discribe this) I have a lot of wear marks on that center section. Is there anything up in the column that can't be seen that could be part of the problem?
Thanks for the help!
Tim

[rickf]

Mr. 3speed,

What does the "OG" in "OG gromet" mean?

Mine is shifting fine but has a sloppy feel. My rods are all jiggly loose and I was thinking of replacing what ever the bearings are at each end, hoping to take some slop out of the shift motion. I've never paid them any attention, so I don't know what sort they are, but I expected to find something like bronze bushings.

Where you didn't use the "OG gromet", it sounds like you used a sleeve of some sort. Was that a hardware store item? Where you say "hard metal sleeve", I hope you used something like bearing bronze. If it was steel, you might think about re-doing it. Steel would wear the shift lever and linkage so next time around the problem is bigger than just the bearings/gromets/bushings. You want that ssleeve to be softer than the shift link and lever, so it is the (relatively easily replaced) sleeve that wears, and not the other two items.

[thekid54]

OG = original

I just replaced the bushings on my tranny and it really made a difference! If your bushings are toast, you could have up to a 1/4" of slop in the hole on the trans. arm. From what I have found, most bushing kits sold at resto shops and the like don't fit that well, and some aren't even close. I had to raid my friends collection of NOS and aftermarket bushings to find something that would work. Now, if I could just figure out why it's popping out of third gear, I'd be happy!

I believe the column adjustment thread is in the FAQ section.

[Shorty Cox]

Tim, everything everyone has said is correct. The problem with the shifter is poor engineering on GM's part plus the fact they didn't expect the vehicle to be running 40+ years later. In addition to the shift rod bushings, most of the problem lies in the shift tube and parts. Have you taken the shift tube apart? I will try to attach some pictures. If you look under the hood at the steering column you should see the lower end of the shift tube as in the first pic. When you take it apart you will find two "arms" that attach to the shift rods. The lower arm controls gears "1st" and "reverse". The upper arm (nearest the firewall) controls "2nd" and "high". Between these two arms is a "C" shaped bushing. The bearing housing at the lower end of the shift tube has a screw in both sides that attach to the shift tube through a angle sloted hole that allows for some adjustment over the years to account for ware on the "C" shaped bushing. On each "arm" there is a little "tit" that fits in a slot on the shifter actuated by the shift lever in the cab. Over time, the "C" shaped bushing, the "tits" on the arms and the "slot" ware and the shifter get "sloppy". Thus, when one trys to shift form one gear to another, the ware allows the part with the "slot" to slip off the "tit" leaving the tranny in that gear, then the shifter is "hung" between gears. You have to get under the hood and manually re-align everything.

Now, what I did is to use a welder to build up the "tits" and the "slot", then file them back to size. I have not had any more trouble. Shifts like a new one.

[Tim64]

No I havent taken anything apart yet, however if what I'm looking at in your pics (the tits and slot) look a little different to me then mine do. I'll try to post some pics of mine tonight and see what you think. How about that big spring does it get weak and need replacing?

[Shorty Cox]

Tim, yours may look different, but it should be basicly the same. The one in the pic is out of a '64, I replaced it with one out of a '66 before I rebuilt it as I described above. The various parts are made by different contractors, but are basicly the same. The big spring is what causes the shifter to drop to the "2nd/high" arm by default when the shift lever is moved to the neutral position. All moving parts in the shifter move on each other, thus, over the years the "C" bushing gets more narrow, the "corners" and "ends" of the "tits" round off, The slot in the yoke wares and thus, all the parts slip past each other. The adjustment at the lower bearing housing is not enough to make up for the ware. I guess there is not enough of us "ole Chevy" guys, that like the 3-speed on the column, for it to be profitable for a company to make a rebuild kit. I hope I have not confused you too much. I've found the "crossing up" problem is in the shifter and not the shift rods and bushings.

Good luck Shorty

[Shorty Cox]

Tim, here is another pic that shows what happens with the yoke slot slips off the "tit".

[rickf]

Mr. Shorty,

I just have one disagreement with you, re: "poor engineering on GM's part"

The mechanism works great for about 30 years, or 200,000 miles.
During the next 10 it gets feeling worn, but still works most of the time.
When it does fail, a quick visit under the hood to reposition the mechanism gets one going again. (A nuisance, but simple to do.)
One can renew the existing parts with a welder and a file.
(If you used hardfacing rod it would probably outlast us and our children.)

I think they did a decent job of engineering a simple functional part that is also simple to fix.

[Tim64]

Here's what mine looks like. This is the same thing just a little different right?
Thanks, Tim

[rickf]

Originally Posted by Tim64

Here's what mine looks like. This is the same thing just a little different right?
Thanks, Tim

The only difference between yours and the one in Mr. Shorty's pics is that yours is assembled and has a little dirt on it.

[Tim64]

I guess this can't be fixed without taking everything apart can it?

[Jdub]

Originally Posted by Shorty Cox

Tim, here is another pic that shows what happens with the yoke slot slips off the "tit".

Thanks for all the pics and info. That last pic is exactly what my shifter looks like all the times. I'm a little confused about what exactly needs to be welded. And does the shifter need to be disassembled before being welded and filed? If so, what's the best way to yank that thing out?

[Shorty Cox]

Tim, yes you have to remove the column to do the repairs. I've added arrows to a pic to my pic to show what areas need metal added, then filed back down. When assembled, the center part should not be able to slide past the "tits" on the shift arms as in the pic. That is what you want to prevent.

Something you may wish to check first is to see if you have any adjustment left. I've added an arrow to your pic. It points at a bolt head. there is another bolt just like it on the other side of the shift tube. Take them off, slide the "C" clamp the bolds pass through off, under it there is a angled slot the bolt passes through and into the lower bearing housing. If bolt position is currently not "bottomed out" toward the firewall in the angled slot, you can rotate the bearing housing so the bolt holes move toward the firewall in the angled slot. Re-assemble. This will take up some of the slop in the mechanism. But, I would just "cut the chase" and do the rebuild.

Rick, I can tell you have never had the center "yoke" slide totally past the shift arms. It is more than a "simple" "neusance", it takes two people and a big drift to fix it.

Finally, these old pickups are great. Do what it takes to keep them on the road. And, with the sharing of knowledge and lessons learned, we can do that.

Shorty

[Tim64]

Well, I’ve got to say I’m sure glad I found this forum. This is the first old Chevy truck I’ve been around in many years. I didn’t really buy it to restore, but to drive on a daily basis. However it has turned out to be more of a project than I thought. I really appreciate the helpful ideas all of you have had for me on this and other problems I’ve had. I think with this I’ll check the adjustment first. Who knows I could get lucky, and I am due for some good luck let me tell you. I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks!
Tim

[rickf]

Originally Posted by Shorty Cox

Rick, I can tell you have never had the center "yoke" slide totally past the shift arms. It is more than a "simple" "neusance", it takes two people and a big drift to fix it.
Shorty

Well, you must be right, I've never had to do that.

A couple times a year I get the situation where it is stuck in some gear but the shift lever in the cab is in the neutral position. Usually it is 3rd gear, the usual scenario is I'm approaching a stop and (I am guessing) I must start pushing the lever to neutral before the clutch disengages, and so the pressure in the tranny holds it in gear while the shift mechanism slips its cog. I generally don't notice it until it is time to go again, and I discover I can't shift. The fix has never been more than shutting off the engine and go under the hood move the "left behind" shift link to neutral.

I guess I've been lucky. I better fix it before I get into that two man drift punch scenario!

[Jdub]

shorty, i got a couple more questions for ya. about how much metal did you add to the yolk and tits when you did the rebuild? im going to attempt the rebuild, and i have really been looking for an excuse to buy a welder. would an arc welder do the job? or should i just spend a little extra cash and get a mig? what do you use/recommend?

[Shorty Cox]

Jdub, A stick welder is what I used. It just takes a small amount on each part. All you are doing is replacing 40+ year of ware. You build up the slot and the tits, then start filing the parts back down, testing each to the other as you go until you get a tight, snug fit. You want the "thin" part of the yoke to be able to just slide between the two tits.

Mine works great, and the wife can even drive it now.

[Tim64]

If a guy wanted to swap out his column, what other years would fit? I would like to find a nice 3sp like what I have, do the rebuild, and paint it up. The one I have is all beat up, with the collar missing. I don't think it's original anyway as it has a flasher botton on it.
Thanks,
Tim