Eng/fuel layout set up

[ripdog28]

So after reading all kinds of others layouts i am at the point in the build to start getting it mocked up.
I am stuck between an Electrical and Mechanical fuel pump. I will be doing more street then track. But I will also add a 150-200 shot (the eng will handle it) and I assume that electrical is the way to go. Will a mechanical hold up and be easier?
How many Psi do I need in a pump? How do I get more fuel when I hit the button so I dont starve it?
What style fuel return should I run?
Rubber or tube fuel lines?

I am looking at low 11s street and low 10s on the juice. My sig will give you my eng specs.

Pics of your set up with a description would help.

[71Dragtruck]

Best life from a electric is a flow through return style pump, it will run cooler and be easier on the pump. I'd also use steel braded line for durability and ease of installation. A good pump that can supply both motor and nitrous is prefered, from there run a seperate nitrous regulator off your return reg that will allow you to set the enrichment flowing pressure to where it needs to be. I also found that cheap Holley regs creep, I had 3 of them and all did it IMO they are junk, Areomotive is a very very good quality product but expensive.

[bigjimzlll]

I agree with the above...with one caviat. If you look at pro-mods or and 10.5 outlaw class N20 car, they will be using the cheap holley regulator. tO KEEP THEM FROM CREEPING YOU CAN RUN A RETURN (SORRY FOR CAPS) line from the regulator back to the cell. use a .020 N20 jet at the regulator. This will also help with the momentary lean condition at activation.
Read this thread.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=45628

[hotrod 80]

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

I agree with the above...with one caviat. If you look at pro-mods or and 10.5 outlaw class N20 car, they will be using the cheap holley regulator. tO KEEP THEM FROM CREEPING YOU CAN RUN A RETURN (SORRY FOR CAPS) line from the regulator back to the cell. use a .020 N20 jet at the regulator. This will also help with the momentary lean condition at activation.
Read this thread.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=45628

I did this on my nitrous regulator ( cheap Holley ) . On the return i threaded the fitting for a Holley jet . I took 1 of the small one that you never use and soldered it up and hand drilled a .018 hole in it . I then threaded it into the fitting i drilled and taped . This keeps the pump from dead heading and keeps fuel pressure from fluctuating . I run 2 blue pumps and aluminum fuel line off a sumped stock tank .

[ripdog28]

So i am a newby to NOS so fill me in on CREEPING... Benefits, Disadvantages, use on street application/racing...

[71Dragtruck]

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

I agree with the above...with one caviat. If you look at pro-mods or and 10.5 outlaw class N20 car, they will be using the cheap holley regulator. tO KEEP THEM FROM CREEPING YOU CAN RUN A RETURN (SORRY FOR CAPS) line from the regulator back to the cell. use a .020 N20 jet at the regulator. This will also help with the momentary lean condition at activation.
Read this thread.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=45628

Where the he11 were you 2 years ago when I was swapping out regs?? LOL! Ya I see what your saying I was trying to dead end the system at the noid and having no luck at all! Learn something new every day I guess.

[71Dragtruck]

Here's the pics and info you wanted from me. In the other pics I posted you can see my pump at the back, 2-8an lines with filters come from my fuel cell and into a y block, they feed 1-10an into my pump and a 10an out from the pump to my main reg ( the red and black one). The reg has a 8an out the bottom back to my fuel cell (this is the return line), on my reg there are 4-8an outlets 2 go to my carb 1 for each fuel bowl with filtered fittings. The back one goes to my nitrous reg 8an in and out to a 6an line with a filter and pressure switch to the fuel solenoid. The front outlet just has a gauge in it.

Now like I said in our pm's my system is overkill and can be done cheaper, for instance you could use a A1000 return style reg with 2 outlets, use one to feed a dual inlet rail for your carb and the other to feed your nitrous reg. this will save fittings hoses and a bit of money. Mine is setup the way I wanted it (with a good budget) as the last fuel system I was ever going to build with plans of maybe a 632 BBC in the future. and with a reg. change it will handle EFI.

[71Dragtruck]

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

I agree with the above...with one caviat. If you look at pro-mods or and 10.5 outlaw class N20 car, they will be using the cheap holley regulator. tO KEEP THEM FROM CREEPING YOU CAN RUN A RETURN (SORRY FOR CAPS) line from the regulator back to the cell. use a .020 N20 jet at the regulator. This will also help with the momentary lean condition at activation.
Read this thread.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=45628

Hey Jim I read the post in your link just wanted to add for info and ask a couple of questions. I dead end off my small Areomotive reg for my nitrous system, and when setting my flowing pressure through the jet I'm running I've watched the pressure as I activated and flowed the jet for 20 seconds, shutting it on and off and such and it seemed to handle it fine, dead on 6psi flowing at all times, dead pressure 6.25, no lag that I can see. Now my question is what other tests could a guy do to test the reg to see if it's worthy? The way I look at it is if the dead end system is working with my Areomotive reg, wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run then the Holley reg with all the parts to build the return system? Or is a return system that much better that I should go through the trouble of building it? What have you found in your trial and errors building and running your systems?

[bigjimzlll]

I saw how you have yours plumbed and I was going to mention it.
Having the N20 plumbed off the carb regulator will flow great at idle. Where you can get into trouble is down track flow. When the carb bowls empty you can have fluctuations.
The suggested way is to use a fuel log plumbed from the pump...then the carb regulator furthest from the pump plumbing with the N20 regulator(s) in between.

With this set up it's not needed to return/bypass with a smaller jet.

I am going to add a plate system(alky enriched) to mine. Only a 200 shot. I will use a fuel log and a cheap holley reg with no bypass.

[71Dragtruck]

So bare with me here it's late and I'm tired LOL, but how would that be that much different then what I have minus the log? My reg is pretty much a pressureized log, as in if you look into it you can see out all the ports from the pressure side, and it holds alot of volume inside. Would a log make that much difference, am I just not getting it? I do see what your saying, and I'd understand how that would apply to a full dead end system to avoid double regging the fuel to the noid, but where as on a return system the fuel at the reg comes from the same place as before the reg, and it's just regulating how much fuel is allowed to return to the tank V/S a dead end system where it is regulating the supply, does that make sense? I was thinking of doing it with my return reg downsteam of everything then went with this. Maybe it will make more sense tomorrow EDIT: nope no clearer today?

[71Dragtruck]

Well back to the old drawing board

From Areomotives web site.

4.) I’m using a bypass style regulator for my carbureted fuel system. I want to install a nitrous kit. How do I set up a second regulator, either static or bypass, to control nitrous fuel pressure?
To avoid engine damage, be VERY careful with this one! As explained in FAQ:1 above, the bypass regulator creates pressure between itself and the fuel pump, so if set for 7 PSI, that is the total system pressure available. Adding a second bypass regulator and attempting to set it for a lower pressure than the primary regulator, would default the entire fuel system to the lower pressure, creating a potential lean-out condition. Connecting a static regulator to a typical bypass system, with no more than 7-8 psi available, creates insufficient inlet pressure to the static regulator (12-15 psi is normally recommended). The result is reduced fuel flow through the static regulator and/or poor pressure regulation to the nitrous fuel solenoid, another potential lean-out condition. Short of installing a separate fuel system for the nitrous (highly recommended), the only option is to raise the bypass regulator set-point to 15-25 PSI, creating enough line pressure to feed two static regulators, each set for the proper carb and nitrous fuel pressures desired.

[bigjimzlll]

Yea..That's what I was trying to say. Are you running a return regulator or does your pump have a return line?

[djracer]

On my junk I run a seperate pump for motor and nitrous fuel!

[71Dragtruck]

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

Yea..That's what I was trying to say. Are you running a return regulator or does your pump have a return line?

Well thanks for the heads up, never hesitate to let me know if you see potential flaw in my plan.

I'm running a return reg Jim, I just ordered another static reg for my carb, have all the spare fittings already just need to plumb it in won't be that big a job.

I'll be running the same return reg I now have with it returning at the reg only @18psi, with a static reg for my carb @8psi and another static reg for my N2O @6psi.

Hows that sound?

Sorry for the confusion ripdog, I'll post pics of the changes and explain what I did when I'm done.

[71Dragtruck]

Originally Posted by djracer

On my junk I run a seperate pump for motor and nitrous fuel!

Ya that's what I was doing, but decided to go to one big pump instead.

[Outlaw72]

It's really a matter of pref...if you want to safely run the nitrous and motor off of one pump.....you are going to spend a nice lil chunk of change on that pump. I prefer two separate fuel systems as djracer does. To me it's just easier to tune for the nitrous and rules out some other issues if you run into problems. JMO

But to answer the question of the original post....my pref method is two separate fuel systems. Mechanical or electric will work just fine on the motor side. Mount a cell and run another system (with electric pump) for the nitrous fuel solonoid. I don't have the money for a $300+ pump. I have a total of $100 in my nitrous fuel system from cell to noid. including a decent regulator.

[71Dragtruck]

Ya as I also said there are way cheaper ways to do it then I did. I ran 2 systems before and decided to go with one big pump this time instead. It's all a matter of choice, one mistake I made was I took the advice of someone I thought knew better instead of researching myself like I nomally do and had to change things a bit in the end. Here is how my system ended up, SO FAR it is working good and I'm happy with it, hopefully it won't give me any grief down the road, no pun intended.

[Outlaw72]

Well....if it ain't broke.....don't fix it I'm a computer programmer so I live by those words

[71Dragtruck]

Originally Posted by Outlaw72

Well....if it ain't broke.....don't fix it I'm a computer programmer so I live by those words

Well mine was broke, my main pump was getting weak. So new system was built this way with future plans of a pump gas 632 no nitrous, when the time comes the 2 static regs will be removed.

[ripdog28]

Thought i would revive this as i am running mine this weekend.

[71Dragtruck]

Just a note I added a jetted return off my nitrous reg to my return line for a more steady pressure. If I had it to do all over again I would run 2 A1000 return regs instead.

[ripdog28]

I ended up getting the Mallory 140... the summit, Earls, and a few other companies had the exact same -an 8 specs just summit was bunches cheaper so i got theirs.

[71Dragtruck]

looks like good stuff, seen a few guys at the track running it. As far as fittings, I've noticed Earls to have the nicest finnish that's about it, I don't have many of thier stuff in my system.

[ripdog28]

got the majority of the fuel system run today. Have a 40 micron prefilter before the pump, i wil have a 10 micron filter pre carb... I used an 1/8in x 3in flat stock bolted to the pump and used some left over carb gasket between it and the frame so it should quiet down any viberations. the pump is about 3/4 in below the tank. any suggestions let me know.

[Marv D]

I am not a big fan of those little line filters, but something is better than nothing. Think about a Mallory Comp 140 Filter (about the best there is for the $'s IMO) or at least the ol racing standard HPG-1 Fram. On the 'in' side you want as little restriction as you can possibly get. The out side will push through most any filter, no matter how dirty. But the 'in' side is at risk.
Run a 10 or 12g wire to the relay for you pump. Low voltage is what burns most pumps up, and Mallory probably a little more picky about voltage... well that and running dry, another BIG no-no.

System is looking good. Nice work!