10.0's cage question

[69trk]

A buddy of mine is going to do my chromoly cage, and i was wondering if i can get away without the bars coming out the back glass? Would the cage be strong enough? I want the truck to look like a regular street truck other than the wide tires...He's going to check with the nhra rules, but haven't heard from his as of yet.. You're not going to see the cage until you open the doors, he's going down thru the dash, tucked high and tight then painted the same color as the truck...

[jgh64pkup]

thats what i was just fixing to post
i want the cage but i dont want to cut my cab or my glass

[phipp13]

i can't quote the rule book but i think he can do that without the rear bars.IMHO i think he'll do more harm than good for his truck, why?Because the truck will be stiff up front where the cage is. Right behind the cab will want to twist more because the lack of bars/ stiffness. Running one of these trucks in the 10s takes a lot of HP & TQ and the truck will twist. The rear down bars that go over the top of the rear shock locations push/ transfer weight from the front to the rear, pushing down to help it hook up and keep it from twisting. i'd be interested in hearing some results without the bars. v/r phipp

[69trk]

My truck doesn't twist hardly at all as it is, so wouldn't you think some cage would be better than no cage when it comes to twisting? My biggest thing is that i want to be safe, and look somewhat stock..When i ran the 11.30's, i was still tunning, still had stock shocks, spinning out of the gate, and had the wrong gear, was running rich, but they ran me off the track because of no cage so i couldn't finish tuning. I should easily hit the high 10's before i do a 100 shot of nitrous.

[limitedstreetoutlaw]

I asked a guy that run at tulsa last year what the rules were and he said they require you to have down bars if you run 9.99 or faster i think it was either 9.99 or 9.90 he was runnin 10.0's and didnt have any down bar's
______________________________
1968 c-10 stepside "THE GRAPE APE"
all motor
1.56...60ft
7.41...1/8
89.41..1/8

[djracer]

I have seen them mounted low so a bed cover would hide them but I don't know if that's legal.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by djracer

I have seen them mounted low so a bed cover would hide them but I don't know if that's legal.

There's a local guy here in DFW that did his 71/72 swb that way. The cage is tucked tight against the cab roof, door openings, & dash. He then runs bars just below the top of the front bed panel through the cab & front bed panel that ties into the rear portion of the cage. He doesn't run a bed cover; but if he did, you wouldn't know the cage was there until looking into the cab.

I've tried to get some pics of it but we seem to miss each other on the cruise nights.

[Wild83C10]

Here is some good info on cages in trucks. But it will depend if you are trying to cert for a certain class and pass tech and get the cage certified.
If you worried about not getting kicked out during during test and tune nights then almost any cage will most likely be good enough. Unless your techs are real ball busters.
I plan on running a cage with no rear bars.

More info:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ght=cage+truck

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Wild83C10

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145670&highlight=cage+truck is some good info on cages in trucks. But it will depend if you are trying to cert for a certain class and pass tech and get the cage certified.
If you worried about not getting kicked out during during test and tune nights then almost any cage will most likely be good enough. Unless your techs are real ball busters.
I plan on running a cage with no rear bars.

Link didn't work for me.

[fryco]

Mine doesn't come above the top of the box side. ( don't know if its legal ) My thoughts are, if the old heap can go faster than 10sec (doubt it) I'll add the extra bars. I wanted to give the frame more support where we spliced it.

The frame splice in the picture is not finished yet, I have to install the fish plates and gussets yet.... (before someone tells me about it)

Sorry i don't have a better angle on the picture... But you get the idea...

[jgh64pkup]

do you have a build thread

[fryco]

No Build thread yet, I'm waiting for the rest of the pictures from my friends camera. He's been "gunna get them to me" for months now. He was in charge of documentation and welding. (Good thing hes a real good welder) I only have the ones I took with my phone.

Don't rush me, or I'll never do it!!!

[drag_72]

69- what kinda power you makin?? cause i have a 462 big block and im hopin i can get into the 11's and i got about 550 horse/500 ft. lbs and 125 shot for now and then putting a250 shot on.

[69trk]

My dyno sheets say 632hp and 541 ft.lbs. My times don't reflect my power, being no drag shocks, wrong gear, wrong torq converter, little to no tuning when i made that pass, and was spinning out of the hole. Can't wait to take it out next year, but i need to get the cage...

[Marv D]

I can tell you right now, it ain't legal. A BAR must have the rear supports attach to the emain hoop NO MORE THAN 5" below the top of the bar (a bar is just the rearward portion of a cage so same thng to the rule book) The MINIMUM angle for those bars to be (from the same verticle plane as the bar) is 30°

I have a cage in my 66 but it will only tech to 11.50 because I refused to cut the cab up for the rear bars. If you want to go quicker than 11.49, get yourself a rule book and build the bar (legal from 11.49 to 9.99) . Otherwise you will make ONE pass quicker than 11.50 and be booted from the track.

Just as a BTW, if you put a bar / cage in a vehicle with a full frame like a pickup, you MUST attach the bar TO THE FRAME, plates on the floor of the cab won't fly. You MUST attach it to the frame. The side bar must pass by the driver mid0way between his elbow and shoulder, the main hoop must be no more than 6" behind the drivers head, and no more than 5" above his head.
GET YOURSELF A RULE BOOK so you don't waste the time effort and materials.

[jgh64pkup]

at our little 1/8 mile track they dont really have much rules i guess
and its an IHRA track
my buddy was running low 7s without harnesses
another track said he had to have them

[69trk]

Thanks marv..

[Marv D]

NHRA is pretty much sticklers about copyright issues so I'm not going to leave this up but for a short time. It's from a previous edition but the bar / cage construction hasn't changed. It's just a taste of some of the way the rules will bite you in the butt if you don't follow the book to the letter in your cage / bar construction.

Here's another example,, Like say you have removed more than 2 square feet of stock floor for trans inspection cover. (as if you had replaced the stock trans hump with aluminum) Or you have altered the stock firewall in ANY way. Then you are required to have a CAGE (no matter if you are running 8.50's or 16 seconds, CAGE, not even a bar but CAGE) . You got bit in the proverbial azz by the rules. To further the pain,, if you are required by the rules to have a cage, then you are required to have a SFI window net. NO EXCEPTIONS, if you are required to have a cage, then you HAVE to have a SFI window net. Point I'm getting at is if you step over the line in one area, it will force you to comply with a boatload of other CRAP to ever get through tect and out on the track.

Like jgh... said there are some tracks around that simply don't care and won't tech you at all. Good luck with that is all I can say. There is a IHRA track in Tulsa so some research might give you an idea if there is a difference, but as far as I know NHRA and IHRA are pretty much in harmony on the bar / cage rules.

[img]http://mhdsurvey.com/barule.jpg

[Marv D]

NHRA is pretty much sticklers about copyright issues so I'm not going to leave this up but for a short time. It's from a previous edition but the bar / cage construction hasn't changed. It's just a taste of some of the way the rules will bite you in the butt if you don't follow the book to the letter in your cage / bar construction.

Here's another example,, Like say you have removed more than 2 square feet of stock floor for trans inspection cover. (as if you had replaced the stock trans hump with aluminum) Or you have altered the stock firewall in ANY way. Then you are required to have a CAGE (no matter if you are running 8.50's or 16 seconds, CAGE, not even a bar but CAGE) . You got bit in the proverbial azz by the rules. To further the pain,, if you are required by the rules to have a cage, then you are required to have a SFI window net. NO EXCEPTIONS, if you are required to have a cage, then you HAVE to have a SFI window net. Point I'm getting at is if you step over the line in one area, it will force you to comply with a boatload of other CRAP to ever get through tect and out on the track.

Like jgh... said there are some tracks around that simply don't care and won't tech you at all. Good luck with that is all I can say. There is a IHRA track in Tulsa so some research might give you an idea if there is a difference, but as far as I know NHRA and IHRA are pretty much in harmony on the bar / cage rules.

[RatPwrd72]

None of the three tracks in Oklahoma are going to give you a hard time about a standard cage build if you run slower than 10.00. My cage doesn't come out the back of the cab and isn't tied to the frame, which makes it more or less a roll bar. It does go through the firewall and ties into the front frame rails. The '67 has been to Blunder Valley, Tulsa, Ardmore and Lawton without any issues running 10.20's. Good Luck.

[69trk]

Thanks again marv, If it's still safe not to have the bars out the back window, then i'm thinking just going that rout. It will go to the frame on all contact points. I don't plan on taking it to the track alot, mainly car shows and probably 3 times a year to the track. I just want to be sure if i end up on the roof, the cage will protect me like its supposed to...

[Wild83C10]

MARV D, how did you build your outriggers or attach your bar to the frame?

[Marv D]

3/16" wall 2" x 3" rectangular tubing butt welded to the stock frame with a couple of heavy verticle gussets to beef things up. Then when I dropped the cage down through the floor it sits on these 'pearches' with a 360 weld around the bottom of the tubing.

Yeah that little narrow frame and a big wide cab makes it a PITA don't it! My cage is strictly to triangulate and support the backhalf. I never intended the truck to be quick enough to 'need' it. I was happy when they moved the bar rule down to 11.5 and gave me some breathing room. But I'm not really interested in taking this bucket of bolts much quicker than it is now. IMO those rules are there to protect me from myself, as much as protect me from whats inthe lane next to me.
If I want to go fast, I've got a safe car to do that in,, don't need to risk things with this ol underbuilt truck.

[jgh64pkup]

well my buddy just got another car without a cage we'll see how many times they let him run its supposed to be a mid 10 sec car

[Marv D]

For NHRA or IHRA , You don't need a cage till 9.99. A 5point bar (with stock floor) will get you by tech to 10.0, then you step across the line into a boatload of chassis cert, SFI fire suit, gloves, neck collar, SFI trans / trans shield, engine diaper, SFI balancer, SFI flexplate, aftermarket axles and axle retention, sonic checked 10 pt certified 'cage', Medical and NHRA/IHRA comp license, +, +, +, .. you can budget around $4k to the betterment of the SFI industry.