Brought this home..1954 1 ton

[rcbildr]

My girlfriend bought this truck a few months ago and yesterday we got it home. The previous owner is driving the tractor pushing the truck to our place.

It's a 1954 Chevy 3800 series with a 235 six. Her plans are to completely restore it with a 350 and an automatic, build a new bed for it and set it up to be a dump bed. The overall goal is to modernize it a little bit but still have it look original. Right now we are going to clean it up and take care of a couple other projects before we really work on this.

One question we do have is, are the 1/2 ton truck fenders and cab corners the same?

[MrTucker]

All body pieces are the same for 1/2 to 1 tons (obviously the chassis is different).

[Steve@OldSub.com]

The 1-ton front bumper is unique. Its much heavier than the smaller trucks, but has the same look.

[BlueJeep]

Originally Posted by Steve@OldSub.com

The 1-ton front bumper is unique. Its much heavier than the smaller trucks, but has the same look.

Isn't it that the bumper is the same, but the brackets are heavier and different? They mount perpendicular to the frame horns vs. parallel.

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by BlueJeep

Isn't it that the bumper is the same, but the brackets are heavier and different? They mount perpendicular to the frame horns vs. parallel.

Both the mounting and the bumper itself are different.

The 1-ton frame extends further out and has a casting on the front that the bumper bracket attaches too. The brackets are much flatter than the 1/2-ton type.

The bumper is two pieces. One is a very stiff bar, almost like a piece of heavy strap, that fits behind the bumper and stretches across the mounts. The second piece is the one that shows and it is a much thicker piece of steel than the stock 1/2- or 3/4-ton.

If you ever pick one up you'll immediately feel the difference. They look thicker and are much heavier.

[jocko]

I only have one question - does your girlfriend have any sisters? Good Lord, any girlfriend that would buy you a 1 ton 54 chev is a keeper!! Nice truck!

[BlueJeep]

Originally Posted by Steve@OldSub.com

Both the mounting and the bumper itself are different.

The 1-ton frame extends further out and has a casting on the front that the bumper bracket attaches too. The brackets are much flatter than the 1/2-ton type.

The bumper is two pieces. One is a very stiff bar, almost like a piece of heavy strap, that fits behind the bumper and stretches across the mounts. The second piece is the one that shows and it is a much thicker piece of steel than the stock 1/2- or 3/4-ton.

If you ever pick one up you'll immediately feel the difference. They look thicker and are much heavier.

My project was a 3800, I'll have to head into the garage and check it out again. I thought the visible bumper looked the same as 1/2 ton units...

[Dan Bowles]

Few want to agree with me but the front fenders ARE different on the 1 tons. They MAY have a larger radius for wheel opening depending on the size of tires it came with. You CAN put 1/2-3/4 ton fenders on a 1 ton.

At least it's a '54. They are the best!

[nickp51chevy]

Originally Posted by Dan Bowles

Few want to agree with me but the front fenders ARE different on the 1 tons. They MAY have a larger radius for wheel opening depending on the size of tires it came with. You CAN put 1/2-3/4 ton fenders on a 1 ton.

At least it's a '54. They are the best!

I was about to agree with Dan 100% until he said that last line. We all know that '51's are the best.

But everything else is true and accurate.
The larger trucks may have a larger front clip, but the cabs are all the same.

[BlueJeep]

OK, here's the 3800 front bumper. The bumper itself is a shade under 1/4", like .244". The "bumper bracket" for lack of a better term is 3/8" x 2 1/4" thick, and like OldSub said bolts to some cast pieces on the front of the frame horns.

Whole bumper:


And closer up:


And here you can see the cast pieces they bolt to:


Dan, what should I measure to determine if the fenders are larger, the wheel opening straight across (horizontal to ground)?

[Steve@OldSub.com]

I have a '54 1-ton with the 18 inch wheels which are the biggest they put on 1-tons in '54. ('54 Restoration Pack wheel page) The fenders are the same as my 1/2-ton.

The Chevrolet Parts Book is online, you can look up the part numbers on these fenders. You'll find 1/2-, 3/4- and 1-ton all have the same Chevrolet part number.

Chevy Parts Book fender page (You do need to know that Commercials are 1-ton and smaller while Utilities are 1-1/2 and larger).

1-1/2 and 2-ton have a different part numbers than the smaller trucks and COEs are yet another.

GMC is the same though I'm not aware of that Parts Book being online anywhere--I have a printed copy.

I have a 1-ton Chevy panel that has huge fenders on it. They are the fenders that GMC put on their 3-ton trucks. These are much wider than the fenders you see on a Chevy 2-ton and Chevy did not make a truck as big as the 3-ton in the AD era.

How did those big fenders end up on that little truck? Easy, the panel needed fenders and these were available. They are now on a truck Chevy never intended them for and without checking the part numbers I can imagine someone believing it came that way.

It didn't.

[Dan Bowles]

Steve, I'll still disagree with you. I've got a 1 ton with the same outer dimensions of the fender. They are in all respects the 1/2-3/4 ton fender BUT the opening for the tire is an inch bigger. I don't care what books say. I've held a tape measure from one side of the opening at the bottom to the other on two sets of fenders on two 1 ton panels and got something like 31 1/2" on one and 30 1/2" on the other.

I actually brought this up on Stovebolt and had the same discussion with you there. I've had 3 1 tons. 1 was a dump truck that started as a cab and chassis with the small fenders. The other two are panels and I'm pretty sure they both had the bigger cut outs. I'd have to pull the numbers to see what plant they were made in.

In any case, if you find 1/2-3/4 ton fenders for replacements, they'll bolt on with no issue.

I work in automotive and parts books often show replacement part numbers. If GM didn't want to stock two different fenders for service, they'd only show one, especially if they are backwards compatable. My jack is shown going back to about 1997 because my competitor went bankrupt in 2006 and could not supply service parts and mine have been tested on the same platforms.

[rcbildr]

Originally Posted by jocko

I only have one question - does your girlfriend have any sisters? Good Lord, any girlfriend that would buy you a 1 ton 54 chev is a keeper!! Nice truck!

Actually, the truck is hers. She's in to old chevies as much as I am....she definitely is a keeper...I proposed on valentines day and she said yes...dates have not been set yet tho. Her other project is a 1978 camaro. She's gotten in to raising chickens too and when she saw the truck she thought it would be cool to fix it up so she could use it to go buy feed supplies and possibly tow the camaro to car shows...when both rigs are show-worthy. My secret goal is to have the truck driveable and safe this year because her camaro club has a project car show in november called the beater brunch. I'm hoping I can get my 67 Burban going to go there too.

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by rcbildr

My secret goal is to have the truck driveable and safe this year because her camaro club has a project car show in november called the beater brunch. I'm hoping I can get my 67 Burban going to go there too.

Hey I know that show. I have a friend who asks me to come each year who is part of the club and at least has been involved in organizing the show. Maybe this year I'll make it.

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by Dan Bowles

Steve, I'll still disagree with you.

<clip>

I actually brought this up on Stovebolt and had the same discussion with you there.

I know I've had this discussion more than once before, but didn't remember that it was ever with you. Until there is name calling or character assassination I don't personalize this kind of disagreement and often don't recall who the other party might have been.

I know the books can be wrong, but the books agree with the opinions of guys old enough to have bought some of these trucks new.

Today I own four 1-tons that fit this discussion, though only two of them have what I believe to be original fenders on or with them. Two of mine are GMCs and appeared to have complete original bodies when I got them. One of the GMC's is currently blown apart. Another is a '51 Chevy panel and the last (first built) is a '50 Chevy 5-window.

The panel currently has the fenders from a GMC 450 and the '50 Chevy came to me without fenders. Those two are no help.

While everything I know says there are no differences, lets explore how a difference would make sense.

Can you identify year, make and model for the fenders you've measured as being each of the two sizes?

Chevy versus GMC? Until '54 the fenders were different between the two brands.

Early versus late? '47 to '53 are different than '54 and '55 1st already.

Different plants? To me it seems unlikely because I'd expect the dies were made in the same places.

Different sides? Wouldn't it be a laugh if it turns out the rights and lefts are different in that way.

Did you make all the measurements with the same tape? I read somewhere recently that some of the cheap tapes on the market are inaccurate. I've been meaning to line all mine up and verify that they at least al agree...

Do I understand correctly that you measured from the bottom of the front of the fender straight across (parallel to the ground) to a point on the back of the fender opening? If I try to duplicate your measurements I want to measure the same thing.

I'm not likely to be in Michigan anytime soon, so I won't be looking at your examples, but we should be able to find reason to explain why they would be different or explanation why some appear to be different.

If you are wrong I want you to understand how you reached the wrong conclusion. If I am wrong I want to be able to explain the difference and why it exists.

[Dan Bowles]

No name calling going to happen here. I'm not out to make this personal. I'm out to inform people because I seriously have had fenders I was convinced are the same NOT be and I don't want others to make the same mistake.

The dump was my '53 1 ton that is in the gallery over on Stovebolt. I sold it almost 10 years ago so I'm not sure what it was.

The panels are both 1 tons, 1 is a '49 and the other a '50. I've still got the '49. The '50 is in NJ.

All 3 are Chevy trucks. I, sadly, have not had the right opportunity to own a GMC but when I do, it will be a '54 Suburban with a chrome grille because THAT is the real cats meow.

I don't know what stock wheels they came with but I do know there is another 1 ton panel in the town I live in that has the smaller openings.

My intent is to actually take a panel of some type, put it behind the opening and mark it for BOTH sets. The '49 front clip is off and on the ground right now so it'll be easy but I don't have any other 47-53 fenders, the rest of mine are '54/55S1 because that's what I've got.

I'm not worried about an old guy who bought one new, he might not have seen the difference without staring at it. It's kind of like the F1-3s or 4s of the same era. Same fender stamping, just bigger openings.

As for the dies coming from the same shop, that I doubt. And if they were, it wasn't the day of CNC where they were all duplicates.

I live near Ididit and guys there have told me that some columns, specifically the 60-66, don't have mount holes from them because there were too many different sets based on all of the different plants. They mocked up their first '57 Bel Air column on a parts car and then transferred it to the boss' car only to find it didn't fit because of the firewall and dash didn't line up the same.

I've used lots of different tapes but I've compared A to B using the same tape before. I sold the '52 3100 that was next to the '50 3800 but did those the same day, same tape, same "time" same way and couldn't believe it. I have had 1 person agree with me, they said it was something to do with 18" wheels on the 1 tons.

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by Dan Bowles

I, sadly, have not had the right opportunity to own a GMC but when I do, it will be a '54 Suburban with a chrome grille because THAT is the real cats meow.

I agree. This is mine.



It came from the factory with an open driveline so if it were a Chevy it would be a '55 1st.

Originally Posted by Dan Bowles

I have had 1 person agree with me, they said it was something to do with 18" wheels on the 1 tons.

My Suburban is parked about 30 feet from my dually 1-ton that is pictured in my avatar. That truck has the 18 inch wheels. If it stops raining this afternoon I'll measure the two.



These are both GMC's and both the '54/'55 1st type. The Suburban was built in Oakland and I believe the 1-ton was also made in Oakland but don't recall with certainty.

I've never seen GM 18 inch wheels of that era that were not dually type and in those years there were no factory built dually panels. The standard wheels on a 1-ton single wheel truck were 17 inchers. But of course this knowledge comes from the same kind of documents my part numbers do.

Originally Posted by Dan Bowles

As for the dies coming from the same shop, that I doubt. And if they were, it wasn't the day of CNC where they were all duplicates.

Really. I realize there was no CNC back then, but would expect the best way to assure interchangability would be to make dies in a single shop with a single set of templates. But I'll admit I don't know how it was done back then or even how they do it now...

[Dan Bowles]

They didn't care about interchangeability back then. They weren't going to get a fender from Janesville and put it on the line in Oakland. I don't know how they handled service parts. I would agree they had templates but the dies were not necessarily made at the same place. Also a busier plant would have more wear and each had their own tool room to repair them.

I was a supplier to Honda for a few years. They had a set of dies to stamp the right and left side of the Civic but the Canada plant stamped one side while the Ohio plant stamped the other. A truck always ran back and forth full of one side or the other. Took too long for the dies to be changed but they had a back up if the truck went down (like 9/11 closing the border). THOSE parts HAD to fit for both plants. The '50s didn't do that. That is why you get guys who say such and such replacement parts are junk where another guy says I barely modified them.

I saw a buddy's late 60s Buick wagon a few days ago. Under the trim it has holes for both the Skylark trim and the wagon trim. But ONLY on one side. Factory punched holes!

We'll figure it out, if I'm wrong, I ain't scared to say it. I keep saying what I feel, MEASURE to be sure! I'd be REALLY pissed if I had spent a bunch of dough on the wrong one. On the other hand, if I'm wrong and they all have the same cut out, you aren't out anything for checking! Like Steve pointed out, he's got GMC and I've got Chevy and maybe THERE is a difference. We've all noted the marker light hole...maybe there are more. Not "sticker engineering" like we have today, they were DIFFERENT makes.

[Dan Bowles]

And I heart BOTH of those trucks.

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by Dan Bowles

And I heart BOTH of those trucks.

That's like telling a mom how great her kids are. Always a good way to make friends!

Originally Posted by Steve@OldSub.com

If it stops raining this afternoon I'll measure the two.

It never really stopped, but it did ease enough I was willing to go back outside.

Measuring from the front at bumper height to the rear of the fender where the character line occurs I got the same measurements within less than half an inch on both trucks right and left. I think the small differences are more likely measuring error than meaningful difference in the fenders. That and it could be that one of the fenders is a little tweaked pushing the lip outward and increasing the measure.

I measured both from the chrome grills to the back of the opening and the front of the opening to the rear. The 1-ton's grill sets about half an inch from the body while the Suburban's is tight to the body. Adjusting for that the measurements were very close.

We need to figure out how to define a common place to measure so our numbers can be compared meaningfully.

These are both GMC trucks, and they are both '54-'55 1st trucks. The 1-ton does have the 18 inch wheels but it is not a panel.

I have a '54 Chevy 1/2-ton I can measure, but would be shocked it it proved at all different from the two GMC's.

My buddy has a '53 Chevy 1/2-ton I'll try to measure in the next few days and there are two 1-tons, one a '51 panel, in the general area I can probably catch up with and measure. I'll try to do that before I'm stuck away from home for several months.

Is that Frank's Buick wagon you were looking at?

[nickp51chevy]

Originally Posted by Steve@OldSub.com

Measuring from the front at bumper height to the rear of the fender where the character line occurs

I got 32" on my '51. It is a 3/4 ton front fender.

[Dan Bowles]

Yep, it's Frank's car. Looks like a perf punch went nuts but only on ONE side!

[rcbildr]

Wow!!! Thanks for all the info and pics...those are some cool rigs. I have to get my shop cleaned up a bit and then I'm hoping to get my 67 Burban (or the 69 if I get it) running before we get serious about this truck. My girlfriend wants to invite the camaro club over (and anyone else who wants to help) and have a "build day" to get it running for the beater brunch. one of our goals this year is to have our projects (at the least) running and moving under their own power so we can move them around if we need to. I'll keep y'all posted on the progress of both our projects. Thanks again everyone!

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by rcbildr

My girlfriend wants to invite the camaro club over (and anyone else who wants to help) and have a "build day" to get it running for the beater brunch.

I'd love to come, though unless its mid-July or later I'm not likely to be able to. Say hi to Scott Swanson and Dan Boyle for me.

[rcbildr]

Originally Posted by Steve@OldSub.com

I'd love to come, though unless its mid-July or later I'm not likely to be able to. Say hi to Scott Swanson and Dan Boyle for me.

Will do. IIRC the Beater Brunch is mid november. When we are ready to have a tear-down day for the truck, you are more than welcome to come out...we're going to try and get Scott and other memebers of the club to come out too. I'm not sure of when that will happen (hopefully as soon as the weather gets nicer) but I will keep you posted as we get better organized with our projects.