Advice to get in mid 12s before for pinks all out!!!

[moncada427]

Hey
I recently registered my shop truck, 72 swb stepside for a knock off pinks all out event in san antonio this june 10. My truck is currently running 13.02... so close to a 12 but ive only run it about 10 passes in the past 6 months. I have about a $2000 budget, $2600 if i sell my cheapo pro comp heads to one of my customers. Nothing has been done to lighten the truck. My question is where will my setup benefit the most in et to achieve a mid 12 without nos.. given the fact i dont mind the streetablility factor and the willing to put a little more in the pot..
Heres what she has:
Drivetrain: turbo 400 w/ shift kit, 3200 cheapo stall, 3.73 gears, 26x11.5 hoosiers, and its ending the 1/4 around 5200 @ 102mph. Lol have 29x15.5 M/T for the street

Engine:
355ci stock truck rods and crank, clearanced bearing tolerances to race
7qt kick out pan
11.93:1 speed pro domes, been running on 93 on the street the past 6 months and been doing fine, c12 at track... gotta love the smell
pro comp aluminum heads with 210cc runner, 2.02/1.60, 64cc "heard they dont flow any better than a vortec head"
Comp magnum cam.. .525/.525 lift, 253/253 dur, 305/305 adv dur, 110 lsa, operating range 3,000 to 7,000, and is not degreed to motor... "possible factor"
professional products hurricane single plane intake that was gasket matched to the 1266 fel pro
750 demon dp
stock hei distributor with tighter advance springs cause compression

So.. different heads, gears, ignition up grade, converter, degree cam....??? Your advice is appreciated.

[Super73]

What do you spin the motor too?
5,200 through the traps tells me you need more gearing.

[KQQL IT]

Whats the 60'?

[ripdog28]

a 355 using 210cc heads and trapping at 5200 and that cam (3k-7k) is a mismatch. Your heads are too big or your gearing is too low. I would sell those heads and get some AFR195 eliminators ($1495 from Summit). Then install a 4.11+ rear gear ($200). With that cam, smaller heads, and a gear change you will be up closer to 6500 and well into the 12's.

[team39763]

Are those hoosier slicks or them "pro street" deals?

[moncada427]

I dont have the time slip on hand but i think is 1.90's or 2.00's... The slicks are hoosiers quick time pro. They are the ones that look like slicks with only two depth lines in em to make em street legal. With a good burn out they hook well with around 11psi. Im thinking about maybe 4.30 gears and getting rid of the pro comp heads for those afrs. The rearend is an 8.5 10 bolt from a 1st gen camaro. Actually im installing a spare performer rpm intake tonight to see if itll help the bottom end. The reason is because im only taking the shift to 6500 n dont need to pull to 7g. Thanks for the input. Also wondering, will degreeing the cam create more potential horsepower...

[KQQL IT]

Work on the 60' Do you have leafs or truck arm rear suspension?

[Super73]

I'm assuming you have not had the tuck on a chassis dyno so you don't know where it is really making peak power. Have you tried different shift RPMs? Obviously that wont change your final trap RPM but it might pick you up some. It doesn't hurt to try 6,200 twice, 6,300 twice, 6,400 twice moving up in RPM. If your cutting consistant 60's, that will at least tell you where you really need to shift at.

Varying 1-2 shift rpm from 2-3 shift rpm can also net you a little more. IE short shift both gears and only move 1 up keeping the other consistant. Find that gears sweet spot. Then find the other gears sweet spot. You will find that each gear may like a little different shift rpm.

Do you read your plugs? If so, what is your procedure? Most people don't know how to properly read a plug nor do they do it correctly. You would be suprised how much could be in correct air fuel and timing by reading plugs. Your tuneup might be close, but is it spot on?

The above costs you $0 and could even get you in the 12.9x range or even better..

As far as $ mods:

Where is your batterey located.. Putting it in the bed is cheap and adds to consistancey and aids in 60'

Electric fan, fairly cheap and good for power, cooling things off between rounds adding consistancey.

Electric water pump. It's not going to give you a huge increase in HP except when you can't keep your motor cool enough going rounds. It's going to aid in consistancy and help keep it cool.

A different gear is going to be helpful, but don't change the gear before a cam/head swap. You'll be taking a guess at what you actually need with out track testing it. This goes for verter too.

[moncada427]

Awesome info..
First couple of times at the track i was running it to 6800rpms on both shifts n it would kill my et.. Im going to start at 6300 2xs and work up to the 6500, but im going to try it with the performer rpm intake. I guess the only variable i would have from the previous setup will be the 6500 shifts to see if the intake helped. Also be able to compare by 60 foot. As for the plugs the "burn ban" where on the ground strap of the plug is right on the money.. Near the middle of the arch. Thanks for the info..

[POPO1984]

How much HP/TQ does it take to get a swb in the 12 sec range provided you can cut a good 60'.

[hotrodhomi]

what about a cheap power adder like a Nitrous Oxide System?

[Super73]

Originally Posted by moncada427

As for the plugs the "burn ban" where on the ground strap of the plug is right on the money.. Near the middle of the arch. Thanks for the info..

This is only telling you that the heat range is correct.. There is a lot more to a plug than that.

What is the plug telling you about air fuel ratio?
Have you cut the end of a plug off to look at the fuel ring?
Have you looked for signs of detonation on the porcelin on the plug?

Most people run a plug and don't look at everything. They also will run a plug, make a pass and drive back to the pit area then pull the plug.. That is a big no no if you really want to read plugs. This is what I do..

Warm the vehicle up on old plugs
Put a fresh set of plugs in
Get a tow through the staging lanes
Fire it up, do you burn out and get to the line as quick as possible
Make your pass and as soon as you cross the line, put it in N and turn the motor off
Coast as far as you can on the return road to the pits (My track I can make it all the way back to the pits)
Pull ALL your plugs if this is the first time ever reading plugs.
Cut the threaded section off so they look like this


See the black ring? That is telling you your rich or lean you are. This picture shows a motor that is a little rich. But you will NOT be able to read this well if you drive on your plugs!!!

You can see if there is detonation by looking at the porcelin and if you see black specs or shinny silvery specs, you are most likely seeing some detonation and need to back the timing off a little.


Once you know what each cyl is doing, you generally can get away with pulling 1 plug (The leanest one) and keep and eye on it between each pass untill things are totally dialed.


Here is a decent thread on another board with a lot of good info. Yes I borrowed a pic from John there.. Yes it's based around N20 motors, but the principals stay the same.


http://www.dragstuff.com/forum/viewt...+plug&start=30

[Robertjust777]

what if you have air fuel ratio sensors and gauge to see your air fuel raito for 1 for each cyl?

[regan wilson]

I didnt read all the thread but you should be at peak rpm in the traps . That might reqiure more gear or a better converter . You might need to call PTC and buy a real converter and maybe change the gears.

[Marv D]

A full second for $2600,,, hmm I wish you luck doing it with no power adder. Seconds ae a heck of a lot cheaper to buy when your 14s and 15s,, but the quicker you go the more zeros you have to add to the budget to find a second.

Probably best use of the $,,, I'd say for $2600 you can put together a fairly decent flat top 406 short block and slap everything you have on top of it. Then in future needs you can upgrade the heads and cam.

Cubic inches will gt you more ET at this level than anything... just my 2¢

[team39763]

Don't forget weight reduction. A few hundred pounds could be the difference between 13.1 and 12.90.

[Super73]

Originally Posted by Robertjust777

what if you have air fuel ratio sensors and gauge to see your air fuel raito for 1 for each cyl?

You would be surprised how far off AFR guages are out of the box. Air fuel guages are a great tuning tool, but.... They are not in the cyl and can not tell you if you are having detonation, if the plug is the right temp ect. I use an air fuel guage, but I don't rely on it either. Every sensor is slightly different and the controller box that sends the output voltage to the guage can also out put a slightly off voltage throwing your reading off. I tie my wideband in to my HPtuners cable for data loging. I check it's min(rich)/max(lean) outputs with a meter and set up an offset voltage algorythm in HPtuners to companste for the varying voltage. Not many people ever think to do so or even have a data logger that will allow you to do that.

[moncada427]

Yeah,
Its my first time actually trying to dial in a truck to get the most out of it. I plan like super73 said, warm it up, change the plugs, push to the line, make a pass and shut it off. lol itll look kinda funny cause you see that with the all out race cars but its for tuning purposes n i dont care what others think. Ill take a few extra sets of plugs so the test can be done more than once. I installed that rpm intake with a 2in spacer last night and the throttle response as well as the off line take off is better, but well see when its at the track.

N like the other comment said, there is no replacement for displacement. Before my stepside i had a swb fleetside n ran a 427bbc in it. It ran 12.7's n never looking into any of this tuning issues. It was like 5yrs ago n i was in high school. I pulled it to put it in my 55 210 sedan then sold the truck for this stepside. The thing was i always had problems on the street with it. If it wasnt cracking a rocker, bending a pushrod, or wetting the plugs it was overheating in mid day traffic. I figured i would build a 355 and try to get the most out of it but it dont even come close. Any ways i live 2.5hrs from my track and willing to try it asap on a test and tune night. Thanks for the advice.

Im running the stock suspension with bad shocks. Im sure stiffer shocks will help the 60ft also. Ill look on summit to see what they have. As far as the nitrous, i might just sell the heads and go afr before adding nitrous cause i would question the durability of the pro comp heads unless someone has experienced nitrous with the pro comp heads...

[Super73]

Your soft shocks might actually be helping you more than hurting you. It's one way to help transfer weight (to loosen up a shock). If your going to spend money on shocks, do yoursel a favor and buy and adjustable set. Preferably something like a Rancho 9000 in the length you need. Then you can fine tune based on track conditions.

[moncada427]

I going to a gm truck shoot out in san antonio this weekend and ill do some testing like yall said. dont know how much testing and tuning theyll allow since its and event but diffently want to get some results recorded and ill post what came out of it. Thanks.

[moncada427]

Haven't had time to post the results but i have made two more trips to the track since last post. At the truck shootout i found the stock hei distributor to be bad and only ran a 13.2. Last weekend we went to a span on shootout in san antonio with 90+ degree weather and with the new msd pro billet, coil, and 6al we finally got 12.90! But this this time before we went to the track, we had to weld the spider gears cause the posi from the 1st gen camaro 10 bolt was slipping. I know its a no no but heck my g-pa did this for years on his 55 chevy bbc's. Anyways we launch good and some tire hop in the burnout box when the hoosiers started to scream. My shocks are bad and looking into those rancho shocks for the back. Also my mph "101" was about the same from the 13.2 compared to the 12.9... Yall think the stock mechanical fuel pump aint keeping up? Sometimes the clear filter is dry after a run... I have yet to go on a test and tune night but rule of thumb says ur mph will say if your running lean. I just ordered the holley blue pump and etc... I think it might help a little. 60' was 1.86 which im really suprised at. But topend i think could have used a little more pull. Thanks for looking and your comments will be highly appreciated.