4l80e shifting ?

[Shon]

The trans shifts based on MPH; the PCM needs to have the correct Gear/Tire size no matter what is driving your speedo.

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by Shon

The trans shifts based on MPH; the PCM needs to have the correct Gear/Tire size no matter what is driving your speedo.

...so what about the shift kit?...I've read that it affects the pcm's programing?

[BR3W CITY]

the shift kit would change the solenoids and the physical pressure in the trans/valve body, I don't think it would change the pcm program directly, instead that it would require the tune to take into account the fact that a shift kit was added, and change pcm parameters/shift points/firmess/traction control (if applicable)

[mooseknuckles]

I've read that some of the numbers in the tables have to be changed or "zero'd" when running a shift kit...so I'll have to look in to that more....but right now I need to find someone that can do a tune, or someone that knows whats going on more that what I do...(which isn't much) to fix my problems.....first gear shifts way too early, overdrive shifts late, and every gear shifts super HARD!

[BR3W CITY]

....anyone touched the traction/power reduction settings? When I had my truck tuned, there were a bunch of stupid traction control things that my tuner had to reduce. I forget the proper name for it in the computer, but its essentially the "don't brake it" thing so people did't break trannies off the start.

[68GMCCustom]

Torque Management?

[mcmlxix]

Originally Posted by 68GMCCustom

Torque Management?

traction control?

[BR3W CITY]

Torque Management ! Thats the one.
It had to be set to 0, or the pcm would screw with stuff, I'm not sure if its an ignition retard or what, put it KILLS off the line power, bogging, weird shifting etc.

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

....anyone touched the traction/power reduction settings? When I had my truck tuned, there were a bunch of stupid traction control things that my tuner had to reduce. I forget the proper name for it in the computer, but its essentially the "don't brake it" thing so people did't break trannies off the start.

not sure?...got a reflashed pcm from PSI Conversions....sent a few emails, its like pulling teeth.

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Torque Management ! Thats the one.
It had to be set to 0, or the pcm would screw with stuff, I'm not sure if its an ignition retard or what, put it KILLS off the line power, bogging, weird shifting etc.

..and possibly short shifting? no bogging tho....this thing is the complete opposite of bogging...lol. found a buddy of mine with a scanner, so maybe see if it's throwing any codes....

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckles

first gear shifts way too early, overdrive shifts late, and every gear shifts super HARD!

^This is what makes me think there IS a Trans code in the PCM.
Ratio error codes will cause really hard shifts.....If the PCM detects an incorrect gear ratio, then code P0756 or P0758 sets, the PCM commands maximum line pressure, freezes shift adapts from being updated, and inhibits 3-2 downshifts.

Torque Management/Shift adapt will produce "stock" feeling shifts...Even with a shift kit if they are in fact "Active".

If the scan tool has live trans data.....


1st gear
Shift Solenoid-A....ON
Shift Solenoid-B....OFF

2nd gear
Shift Solenoid-A....OFF
Shift Solenoid-B....OFF

If SS-A remains ON after the 1-2 shift.....The problem is in the transmission, Installation error on the shift kit maybe???

[BR3W CITY]

if its shifting really aggressive, that makes me thing that the Tq mgmt is out of the running as the culprit.

just a thought, have you driven a stalled car or a car with an aftermarket shift kit before? I hope that doesn't sound as condescending as it looks on the screen; but the first time I e ever drove an auto that kicked squawked tires on shifts, i thought something was wrong.

I'm still having issues with my o/d also, my tuner will be stopping over something in the next week or so depending on how paint keeps going...if he tells me anything that hasn't been suggested I'll post up.

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

if its shifting really aggressive, that makes me thing that the Tq mgmt is out of the running as the culprit.

just a thought, have you driven a stalled car or a car with an aftermarket shift kit before? I hope that doesn't sound as condescending as it looks on the screen; but the first time I e ever drove an auto that kicked squawked tires on shifts, i thought something was wrong.

I'm still having issues with my o/d also, my tuner will be stopping over something in the next week or so depending on how paint keeps going...if he tells me anything that hasn't been suggested I'll post up.

oh yeah plenty..Ive even installed lots, never eff'd one up before, but thats not saying it isnt possible...Ive had vehicles "chirp" the tires when shifting into 2nd, and sometimes 3rd, but not overdrive too....If I can get this thing to stay in first for more than 20', it should be pretty awesome on the track....

[mooseknuckles]

got a diablo predator to check trouble codes.....

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckles

got a diablo predator to check trouble codes.....

P0717....This code is making your hard shifts....
1. Check for broken wiring from the Input Speed Sensor (ISS) to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) terminals Green connector, pin 23 (Dark Blue/Black) and pin 22 (Orange/Black).

2. Check the resistance of the ISS, it should measure about the same as the Output Speed Sensor (OSS). 1,420 to 2,140 ohms.

3. If necessary, swap the ISS and the OSS around, see if the code moves.

P0719....TCC brake switch not wired correctly.

P0650....No check engine lamp.

P1638....Alternator "field" malfuction....Is the Alternator regulator wired to the PCM?

P0461, P0463....These should have been turned off in the tune, Find a different Tuner....This is a "rookie" mistake.

P0172, P0175, P0300....A "big" cam & a "poor" tune can cause these, If yours is stock let me know.

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

P0717....This code is making your hard shifts....
1. Check for broken wiring from the Input Speed Sensor (ISS) to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) terminals Green connector, pin 23 (Dark Blue/Black) and pin 22 (Orange/Black).

2. Check the resistance of the ISS, it should measure about the same as the Output Speed Sensor (OSS). 1,420 to 2,140 ohms.

3. If necessary, swap the ISS and the OSS around, see if the code moves.

P0719....TCC brake switch not wired correctly.

P0650....No check engine lamp.

P1638....Alternator "field" malfuction....Is the Alternator regulator wired to the PCM?

P0461, P0463....These should have been turned off in the tune, Find a different Tuner....This is a "rookie" mistake.

P0172, P0175, P0300....A "big" cam & a "poor" tune can cause these, If yours is stock let me know.

my motor is stock, minus the headers and cold air kit....I'm guessing its a poor tune thing...PSI....the misfire code I'm thinking was a couple loose plug wires, cause I cleared the codes and it never came back up....I'll have to check the wires form the input/output sensors...the alternator has a small red wire going to the pcm....Do I need a "ckeck engine"/ mil lamp?...as for the brake switch wiring, you may have to "dumb" it down for me.....lol....does this pic mean what I think it does?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckles

my motor is stock, minus the headers and cold air kit....I'm guessing its a poor tune thing...PSI....the misfire code I'm thinking was a couple loose plug wires, cause I cleared the codes and it never came back up....I'll have to check the wires form the input/output sensors...the alternator has a small red wire going to the pcm....Do I need a "ckeck engine"/ mil lamp?...as for the brake switch wiring, you may have to "dumb" it down for me.....lol....does this pic mean what I think it does?

I thought we had the brake switch wiring squared away? http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...t=brake+switch.

You dont "need" a MIL but I do recommend one, A 84 C10 should already have one in the cluster.

Are you talking about the "exhaust gas" stuff? Thats EGR, Do you have EGR?

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

I thought we had the brake switch wiring squared away? http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...t=brake+switch.

You dont "need" a MIL but I do recommend one, A 84 C10 should already have one in the cluster.

Are you talking about the "exhaust gas" stuff? Thats EGR, Do you have EGR?

oh yeah...I'll double check but I'm sure its wired that way.....egr? ok..nevermind then.....I thought it was something else.....thanks for the help man. I'm new at this stuff....

[Super73]

There are multiple settings for trans shifting.

There are 3 different modes, Normal, Performance, and Hot.
Normal would be with out a tow/haul button.
Performance is with a tow/haul button.
Hot is an overide for both the above when trans temp hits a certain temp.

Then there is WOT shifting based on a TPS % for all 3 modes.

Normal, Performance, Hot modes (Non-WOT) are based on mph against a TPS%.

In order to go in to WOT for all 3 modes TPS% needs to hit a designated %, then need to meet both the set MPH AND RPM in order to shift. If WOT settings arent close to the base settings for all 3 modes, weird things can happen. IE short shifts, too high rpm to shift..


I have put a few HPtuners screen shots to show what I am talking about.

The first one has all the modes circled in different colors.
Red = Normal
Orange = Performance
Yellow = Hot
Green = TPS% the PCM needs to see in order to enter the WOT overide for all modes.

The second screen shot shows you
Red = The normal mode matrix where a TPS% requires a given MPH to shift.
Pink = WOT settings for the normal mode.


From my experiences with tuning both 60e's and 80e's, TQ Management doesn't have any bearing on where the PCM commands a shift. It only pulls timing to reduce the amount of TQ the trans is hit with on upshifts/downshifts.

[Super73]

Here is a stock 4L80E tune from a HD pick up. Few things to look at.

Look how low the MPH settings are for part throttle 1-2 shift.
<19% TPS = 10mph
19-24% = 12mph
25%-30% = 14mph
31%-36% = 16mph


Look what the min TPS% is set to in order to go in to WOT mode (94%).




I have also attached a screen shot of a stock 60e normal/WOT modes. Pretty close to the same.

Look how low the MPH settings are for part throttle 1-2 shift.
<12% TPS = 11mph
19-24% = 12mph
25%-30% = 14mph
31%-36% = 16mph


Look what the min TPS% is set to in order to go in to WOT mode (94%).





If you have not checked TPS voltage to confirm you are seeing >94% TPS, you need to. It may not be going in to WOT mode.

[mooseknuckles]

what about the TPS itself? I've had the throttle body off a few times, and did some mild porting.

[clinebarger]

Fix the P0717 & P0719 first, Worry about tuning later, All the tuning in the world will not fix electrical or mechanical problems.

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Fix the P0717 & P0719 first, Worry about tuning later, All the tuning in the world will not fix electrical or mechanical problems.

yeah.. I'll def check the iss/oss connections out this week....talking with my tuner...he wants me to check all of the tranny connections and hook up the check engine light and rescan....apparently the tune is a 02 silverado....

[mooseknuckles]

so Im running the Diablo tune, the motor is running 10x better now, tranny is shifting better at wot. still showing the po650, po717, po719, and the po638 codes..going to work on correcting whats causing them this weekend, but I did manage to clear the "system too rich", po172-175 codes by turning off the catalytic overtemp protection in the tune...I'm not running cats....it f**kin hauls a** now!

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckles

so Im running the Diablo tune, the motor is running 10x better now, tranny is shifting better at wot. still showing the po650, po717, po719, and the po638 codes..going to work on correcting whats causing them this weekend, but I did manage to clear the "system too rich", po172-175 codes by turning off the catalytic overtemp protection in the tune...I'm not running cats....it f**kin hauls a** now!

Great news!

I must warn you about driving the truck with Max Line Pressure, It is VERY hard on the transmission hard parts.