MIG Weld Wire for Sheet Metal Repairs

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ok, I need opinions from the experienced among you, NOT just a knee jerk reaction:



Yeah, so it's Harbor Freight - no one panic, remain calm!

I'd never seen .023 wire there before yesteday. I don't know if it's new or I just missed it before. Cheap enough at $6.99 a roll, but then I wondered if it is fine to use? Will it make the work harder (in some way?) for someone who is already an inexperienced welder?

I'll be welding with a Hobart Handler 140 and before anyone makes the inevitable recommendation - no, I'm NOT upgrading to a 220v machine any time soon. I'd love to, but its just not necessary for what I'm doing. Thanks for any advice.

[Speedbumpauto]

The given is that MIG weld is harder and more brittle than TIG so it is harder to do body work with. That being said, most of us use a MIG because that's what we have. Your 110 unit will work well for sheet metal. I use a 110v Lincoln for sheet metal and I do have a 220 Miller machine. In the scheme of things S3 is a little softer but S6 is what everyone sells and buys because it fills better and is more forgiving of dirty metal. The HF brand labeled the same should perform the same and contain the same % of manganese and silicon but I'm not sure how well the labels are policed for meeting the standard. The two things I've found made the most difference for me on my small machine is to not use the small roll, get an adapter and use the 10 or 11 pound rolls. They are much smoother on the drive motor and rollers. The other thing is to use gas instead of flux core. I prefer the c-25 argon mix myself but even CO2 is much better than flux core for sheet metal and exhaust tubing, IMO.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks speedbumpauto,

Yes, I do plan to use "MIG gas" - Argon and Co2. It hadn't occurred to me that the roll diameter would be easier on the machine but that makes sense. Harbor Freight DID have the larger spools as well. Thanks also for the info on S3 vs. S6. I (obviously) know very little so I'm learning from you guys.

On another forum I visit, I posted the same photo and someone noticed what I hadn't - that it's labeled "Made in Italy". So I take that to be better than China. I don't know if I'm being a worrywort or not?

[mr48chev]

I'd take some scrap sheet metal, maybe a junk hood or fender for a truck similar to the one you are working on and play with it a bit to see if it works for you.
I haven't had many issues with HF consumables and lately have come to like their 4-1/2 inch cut disks with the blue and silver label.
It's always good to practice a bit and work on the settings on the machine anyways.

[Kim57]

I've used the Harbor Freight wire without any problems.
Kim

[Chevette]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Thanks speedbumpauto,

Yes, I do plan to use "MIG gas" - Argon and Co2. It hadn't occurred to me that the roll diameter would be easier on the machine but that makes sense. Harbor Freight DID have the larger spools as well. Thanks also for the info on S3 vs. S6. I (obviously) know very little so I'm learning from you guys.

On another forum I visit, I posted the same photo and someone noticed what I hadn't - that it's labeled "Made in Italy". So I take that to be better than China. I don't know if I'm being a worrywort or not?

The made in Italy is far better than the Harbor Freight product which is made in China. I have even noticed that the Italian mig wire is superior to the Lincoln wire that is made in the US and Canada. Not surprising though, as Italian welding standards are very high. As for the .023 wire, it's been around for ages. It works well for thin material and I'm sure everyone has their preference on wire for sheet metal, but I like to use .035 and turn my heat and feed down for tacks. I have two machines; a 252 Miller and a Lincoln 180 and I'll never use that "made in China" crap in either one of them again. I think it's made from recycled fishing boats.

[mknittle]

.023 is good for patch panels and thin stuff. I use .035 for the plug welds. Like punching or drilling holes and welding to a tube frame or another panel. and anything bigger than 16 ga.

Fishing boats lol. I thought those were chinese junks.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Someone on another board I am on just posted the below response - which sounds good to me. It's not like I'm gonna use so much wire that I'd be saving a lot by using the cheaper stuff. I guess I am reminded to NOT be "penny wise, and pound foolish"

You guys agree with this opinion:

"ESAB is a big name in welding.

Check http://www.esabna.com for info (that's for ESAB North America, btw)

Especially check out their Education and ESAB University area, tons of good welding info there.

http://esabna.com/us/en/education/index.cfm

ESAB makes/lists a wire called "Spoolarc Easy Grind", non-AWS class but made for GMAW on steel sheetmetal, as in auto body repair.

http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/FM_handbook/577fm3_3.htm

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/f...d_no_aws_class

That said, just because the tag says 'Italy' on it doesn't actually mean it is made by ESAB and even it is made by them, it could just be made to 'spec'.

Nothing wrong with that per se, but I'm not a good enough welder to deal with fighting crappy or sub-standard welding electrodes (wire or stick). I just want the electrode to work. So I just use a 'name brand' electrode (if it said ESAB on the tag/label, I don't think I'd have any reservations about using such).

I don't go through that much wire or stick that a few dollars more for the 'name brand' electrode isn't a worthwhile trade-off (for me) versus possible crappy electrodes and the aggravation of dealing with such when trying to weld.

8 inch diameter spool of Lincoln L56 ER70S-6 solid wire (12.5 lbs) is ~$30 at Lowes or HomeDepot (I just checked on-line, $29.52 for that spool in 0.025 by me at Lowes, but the 4 inch 2 lb spool is $11.58 in 0.025 but only $5.94 in 0.035 for the 2 lbs).

YMMV. :beer:

As to 0.023/0.025 diameter solid wire and C25 shielding gas when doing GMAW on sheetmetal, yup, that's the way to go.

And a 140-amp 'class' welder (running from 120V power) is plenty for doing sheetmetal work in all but a production setting (where duty-cycle would mostly be the limiting factor and not just output power). Those 'class' machine have enough power to weld thin steel sheetmetal just fine.[/QUOTE]

[hard3]

I just went through all this last week . I read that the ESAB easy -grind was the best to use in body panels in .023 size. I though OK ,I would just go get some. I went to local Praxair supply house to get gas for mig anyway. I said thats what I wanted, he went into his computer to put in the order, cause they didn't stock it, and found they had a direct replacement in stock for 1/3 the price. $2.14/lb vs $6.42/lb . Not sure where it is made. The Praxair guy called his rep for ESAB and the guy told him the Easy Grind is a lower tensile strength wire,thus easy to grind . the stuff I bought was from Blue Star and is -3 grade . I guess I'll have to try to see if any easier to grind
Jeff

[S10Fan]

I've used a lot of the Harbor Freight wire with no issues. I will say the HF wire seems to generate a lot of "junk" around the tip. I'm sure there's a name for the "junk" but it escapes me at the moment. Other than HF wire I also use Lincoln if I'm in Lowes and remember I need wire.

I keep the thicker stuff in my Hobart 135, the thinner stuff is setup in my Blue Point machine.

[paintman5851]

i use the hf wire all the times.i would use the .023 wire for sheet metal all day,in my opinion there will be less grinding with the smaller wire,less build,i use .035 for the thick stuff with my big miller 210 and the .023 with the little welder,good luck

[Trekster]

I have used the Harbor Freight 0.023" "made in Italy" wire and it seemed to weld as good the Lincoln 0.023" "made in Italy" wire.

[crusinforty]

I use HF wire, Hobart & Crown. Hobart & Crown are .024" and seem to weld ok but had to open up the tip a little for the larger wire. I agree with paintman, smaller wire less build up, less heat, cuts down on the potential for warp and less grinding. just my two cents.

[VA72C10]

great discussion. So I'm assuming on my HF welder that I've been running the .035 on that I'll be happier with the .023...just change the internal tip correct? I am also running flux while I wait for a gas canister my father in law is giving me (has several from an old welding business he owned so why buy/rent one...)

[Dan in Pasadena]

I hadn't come back to this thread in awhile.

I still need to buy a tank and my local Airgas quoted me $190 for a large (Sorry, I don't know how they're called out? Height in inches? Cubic feet?) CO2-Argon including buying the tank the first time - which is what has kept me from buying; what with Christmas, etc. With the larger roll of wire I'll be into it over $200.

The counterman told me you can sometimes find the tanks used but I have had no luck searching Craigslist. I think he told me even if the tank was out of date I would be able to swap it for I THINK he said a $10 or $20 charge. Does this sound right to you guys? Is there likely to be a cheaper way to go I don't know about?

[Kim57]

The tanks are expensive. I started with a small one and ended up upgrading it a couple times to the one I have now. It's 24"x6" and runs around $50.00 to fill but lasts quit a while..
Kim

[Dan in Pasadena]

Kim,
I was advised to just buy a large tank to begin with and I wouldn't regret it. SOunded like good advice to me!

Where are you filling your tank because (if I remember correctly) the counter guy at Airgas told me once I bought the large tank a refill would only be in the $30+ range.

[DransportGarage]

I think my tank is 80 cu.ft. In Aug of 2011 I swapped out my tank at Airgas for $33.23 ($26.20 for the gas, $5.00 hazmat charge, and $2.03 tax).

[Kim57]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Kim,
I was advised to just buy a large tank to begin with and I wouldn't regret it. SOunded like good advice to me!

Where are you filling your tank because (if I remember correctly) the counter guy at Airgas told me once I bought the large tank a refill would only be in the $30+ range.

I would get a large tank if you can swing it.
I've been using Praxair for my re-fills. I'll have to check Airgas the next time I need gas.
Kim

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Kim,
I was advised to just buy a large tank to begin with and I wouldn't regret it. SOunded like good advice to me!

Where are you filling your tank because (if I remember correctly) the counter guy at Airgas told me once I bought the large tank a refill would only be in the $30+ range.

I use Airgas also and it's about $32-34 in this area. Tank swap system. Don't know if it's priced differently in different geographic areas.
If you can swing it, I'd strongly suggest getting 2 tanks. Nothing worse than running out in the middle of a project. And, it's not like you'd want to waste the "bottom of the barrel" gas getting it filled before you need to.

I've used Hobart wire for a few years, but before reading this thread I never noticed that it's made in China

[DransportGarage]

X2 on the 2 tank thing. I need to do that.

[_Ogre]

the tank bowties has is the smallest one you should consider. get bigger if you can.
with smaller tanks your always out of gas.
don't be afraid of flux core either. most of truk was welded with flux core. all of the frame and the bed mods were done with flux core wire. it wasn't until i move the cab into my buddy's shop that i used mig on the cab. i sectioned the new yorker trunk with flux core.
i still use flux core all the time.

[arturo7]

Timely thread for me. I just picked up a used MIG. Now I need to learn how to use it...

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks for the encouragement Ogre. I have flux core in my machine now. I've been putting off practicing on a spare truck door I have thinking I shouldn't bother with the flux core!
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[crossfire84]

flux core is good stuff, only problem is lots of splater, dont have that with gas.