LS with Drum brakes

[Billett]

So how many of you rolled around with 4 corner drums on your LS swap?

I just got done with the lq4 swap and that's one of the biggest things I noticed on the truck. When I drove it everyday it didn't seem that bad, but hopping in it after 6+ months of driving a 2000-up car it just seems like stopping an ocean liner on wheels. Which it is. Just gonna have to be careful with it until I can afford some discs

[oldman3]

With me anytime I drive one with drum brakes now, I wonder how I made it all those years before disc brakes. Drive careful...Jim

[tinydb84]

I drove a car with all drums, once. No thank you.

[Billett]

And in case anyone is interested I would HIGHLY recommend swapping brakes before an engine, but in my case the engine went when the brakes were fine so I had to do them in the opposite order.

[BR3W CITY]

Drum brakes were never fine.

[Billett]

Sure they are. They were used everyday for the last 40+ years and my truck is still in one piece. Point is, I couldn't go anywhere without a motor. I can still stop with drums, it just takes longer.

[BigDan3131]

I think after you crest the 400HP mark is when you need to swap to discs. I will only be adding a power booster to mine because the previous owner had just spent a ton of cash redoing all four drums. I will modify them like I have in the past by drilling 1/4" holes about two inches apart and less near the bottom to let water out and fresh air in to cool the brakes all the way around the backing plates near the shoes. It makes a big improvement on how it stops.

[ls1nova71]

The problem with the whole disc versus drum debate isn't that drum brakes were bad when every car on the road had them, its just that now cars stop A LOT faster than they did in the past and drum brakes just aren't as adequate these days. Sure they will still stop as good as the day the truck left the showroom floor, but that moronin the Kia talking on their cell phone, eating a cheesburgerin front of you can stop real fast when he finally realizes traffic in front of him has stopped. Its at that time you'll wish you had better brakes. Just my opinion though....

[jorgensensc]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

The problem with the whole disc versus drum debate isn't that drum brakes were bad when every car on the road had them, its just that now cars stop A LOT faster than they did in the past and drum brakes just aren't as adequate these days. Sure they will still stop as good as the day the truck left the showroom floor, but that moronin the Kia talking on their cell phone, eating a cheesburgerin front of you can stop real fast when he finally realizes traffic in front of him has stopped. Its at that time you'll wish you had better brakes. Just my opinion though....

I completely and totally agree with this statement! It's not about whether or not they work, but more about keeping up with the surrounding technology. Before somebody says 'well semi trucks still use drum brakes', take a look at a semi in traffic on the freeway. Notice the huge distance they leave between themselves and the car in front of them? You know, the space where everyone cuts in front of them in. At least some people are afraid the big rig can't stop in time. They have no problem pulling in front of your old truck and slamming on their brakes. And unfortunately in most cases if you rear end someone it is automatically considered your fault! Even when they get in front if you them hit the brakes. I think disc brakes are quite honestly a standard upgrade for any old vehicle. I know the previous owner spent a bunch of money redoing the drums, but I would still change to disc brakes. Look at it this way, you have really great rebuilt rear drum brakes now!!
Shawn

[BR3W CITY]

I'm sure the abacus worked fine for thousands of years before the calculator....but you don't see me standing here with a rack full of beads.

[47 Fasttoys]

OK, my 2 cents on the drum/disc issue. A full drum system in good working order will stop you just as fast as a full disc system when in a panic stop situation. When your wheels are locked, your wheels are locked and it doesn't matter how they locked. Are disc better over all? yes. The issues start to come in when not in a panic stop condition. Drums tend to have more fade with repeated use. They also don't do well in heavy water. If your driving a lot in traffic you want at least disc on the front. Even some of the newer trucks still have drums on the rear. Horsepower really doesn't matter when it comes to stopping. I do a bit of road racing with an FFR Cobra and have drums on the rear, I'm going from 130 to 60 in a big hurry and don't have issues until about lap 5 or 6 (9 turn course). The point is, 95% of people will never push their brakes to the limit and high end full advance disc system is overkill. A full drum system may be old technology but it is proven technology just the same.
Rob

[Special-Ed]

locking the brakes is not a good thing... you loose control of the vehicle... and stopping distance can actually be more....

i am seriously considering putting in 4 wheel disc anti lock brakes in my upcoming build....

brake fade is impossible to escape if you ive in a big city with gridlock traffic... i'm in chicago this week... 2.5 hours to drive 12 miles. in the pooring rain... drums would be toast

[71chevystep4x4]

mines disc front, drum rear. Why the hell did they do half and half????? And yes, rear discs eventually.

[jorgensensc]

Originally Posted by 71chevystep4x4

mines disc front, drum rear. Why the hell did they do half and half????? And yes, rear discs eventually.

What do you mean why did they do half and half?

[71chevystep4x4]

why did they put disc brakes on the front, and drums on the back? I guess back then they weren't going all four corner disc? And they, as in Chevrolet factory.

[BR3W CITY]

He means, if they did disc on the front, why the heck didn't they do four wheel disc.

The answer is the E-brake, for a few reasons.
1. you can build a cable-brake onto a mechanical drum very simply, and you don't have to go out of your way to do so (cost effective.
2. The ability to build an e-brake into the hat of the rotor like later-models started doing wasn't common (tho it did happen). These combination systems had more parts, cost more to make...and the customer did'nt want even more maintenance costs.
3. Hydraulicly locking e-brakes (basically a line lock), weren't being used by most companies.
4. Older cars were a much higher percentage of manual transmissions, meaning the above e-brake factors affected a much larger percentage of cars, and was a greater concern to drivers who actually used their e-brake.
5. Auto transmissions weren't always to be counted on, as the idea of having a built in roll stop or hill lock wan't always around.

[solidaxel]

The Corvette race car answer to brake fade on a 58.
Change them after every race and use a semi-metallic shoe, they still did not work as good as the 65 Corvette when disc were standard.
The surface area of a 2 1/4" drum brake shoe is much greater than the area of a disc pad.............. but the disc cool faster, heat is the big factor

[Billett]

Man, I seem to be in the middle of an awful lot of confrontational threads lately...

I wasn't debating the pros and cons of disk breaks. As far as I'm concerned they are the way to go 110% I was just seeing who else ran them with their LS's. At this point I'm a bit over budget on the swap as it is, and another ~$1000 for a proper setup isn't feasible at this time, but it will happen.

And no, I imagine most people don't use a "rack of beads" for calculations, but I imagine if you depended on that abacus to get to work you wouldn't be tossing it.

[Heavymetl]

"I used to poop in my diapers, but I learned there was a better way."

Apply that phrase to drum brakes (or even lousy early disc brakes) for clarity.

[ls1nova71]

I'm going to keep my mouth shut from now on. This morning I was rear ended stopping at a red light by a 99 F150, which I'm sure has good brakes. My Sunfire is F'd up and my neck hurts like hell. I guess $hit happens anyway.....

[Special-Ed]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

I'm going to keep my mouth shut from now on. This morning I was rear ended stopping at a red light by a 99 F150, which I'm sure has good brakes. My Sunfire is F'd up and my neck hurts like hell. I guess $hit happens anyway.....

hey you can get payed $$$$$$$$ money for the next project... i mean pain and suffering

please dont tell us it was you in the "kia" eating a burger and texting and cutting off the guy in a bigger vehicle...

glad your ok

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

I'm going to keep my mouth shut from now on. This morning I was rear ended stopping at a red light by a 99 F150, which I'm sure has good brakes. My Sunfire is F'd up and my neck hurts like hell. I guess $hit happens anyway.....

its a ford...and you assumed something on it was good....

[Billett]

Well the bumper was good... was...

In all seriousness I'm glad you're well enough to joke about it! I imagine it could have been much worse.

[jorgensensc]

Sorry to hear about that. Hope you get to feeling better. Just be glad he had disk brakes! Inagine how bad it would have been if he was all drums! Haha !

[ls1nova71]

Originally Posted by Special-Ed

hey you can get payed $$$$$$$$ money for the next project... i mean pain and suffering

please dont tell us it was you in the "kia" eating a burger and texting and cutting off the guy in a bigger vehicle...

glad your ok

Nope, all I was doing was stopping at a yellow light about to turn red, didn't even know anybody was behind me until I got hit and ended up in the middle of the intersection.

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

its a ford...and you assumed something on it was good....

Well it SHOULD have at least had good brakes...

Originally Posted by Billett

Well the bumper was good... was...

In all seriousness I'm glad you're well enough to joke about it! I imagine it could have been much worse.

Yeah, the bumper was good, now it's bent into a "V" shape. But you're right, it could always be worse. Guess now I get to drive my truck more, just glad I wasn't driving it at the time because I'd be more pissed about it getting wrecked, and the thought of banging my head on the back window doesn't sound like fun. Anyway, sorry for jacking your thread, back to the original topic.,,,