57 with camaro clip caster problem

[1adam12]

Thanks guys for some info..papstrk Do mesure with control arms on? or do I need to take them off..

[1958Warrior]

To get the most accurate reading , put your truck on jack stands , use a level on the bottom of your frame under the cab is usually the straightest, get it level front to back and side to side. Support the lower A-arm . Remove the upper A-arm and place a angle finder on the bare A-arm tower. This will also give you a chance to try ghettoluxury's trick of switching the arms if the angle is off.
You can also lay the straight edge across the bolts for a close reading but its important for the original truck frame to be leveled.

[papastrk]

Try with arm on. If enough bolt is showing past control arm shaft, you can lay a straight edge across them. You can use anything as a straight edge. Just cut something to length that will lay across bolts. Lay the angle finder on top of this.

[1adam12]

Update..
Well i have frame level and checked angle on control arm bolts.... 0 degrees..that clip is nose dived.. i took contols arms off and switched them it was worse..So it looks like im in the market for another clip...The PO cut the legs off subframe...Im not sure why...I think it would be better for me to try to find another subframe with the legs still on...Now here is the question would it be better to weld with a arc or Flux core.I have a lincoln 140hd with no bottle..Just trying to get so info from everyone...

[buggy5872]

I would try to find a 220v mig welder to do it with. This is not an area you want to guess if the weld is strong enough. I have had good results with a 11ov flux core welder but it took a while to figure out and get good strength welds.

[ghettoluxury]

If you have an arc use it. The welds won't be as pretty but they will be strong.

[papastrk]

I would not use the 110 welder on this job. The arc welder will be ok. A 220 mig will be the best way to go if you can borrow one. As posted above, this welding job must be strong. The 110 just won't burn in deep enough to produce a safe weld. Be careful here.

[1adam12]

Thats what I was wondering. better to be safe then sorry thanks for the info..

[55metalmonkey]

Originally Posted by papastrk

I would not use the 110 welder on this job. The arc welder will be ok. A 220 mig will be the best way to go if you can borrow one. As posted above, this welding job must be strong. The 110 just won't burn in deep enough to produce a safe weld. Be careful here.

Ditto,
A 220v mig with 75/25 co2/ argon mix is the better way to go for this. If you have the new clip fitted in place and ready to go you can always rent or borrow one and it would only take a couple hrs to weld it in.

[mr48chev]

There isn't anything wrong with welding one with a good stick welder even some of these guys consider them obsolete.

If you don't have 220 or access to a good 220 welder one thing you might consider is getting it all lined up and squared up and tacking it to your frame real good with your 110 flux core and then taking the assembled "frame" to someone else or somewhere where it can be welded up with a welder up to the job. I used to stick a lot of stuff together with my little 110 wards welder and then either take it to the welding shop or to my friend down the street to have welded solid and correctly. It's the fitting and fussing that takes all of the serious time and not the actual finish welding.

[buggy5872]

Just some food for thought....if the clip you have is good and you know what angle it should be at....why not just make a small pie cut in the frame to raise up the nose and then plate it for strengh? Just a thought...seems like it would save you a lot of time and $. Not sure how much work that would make to get the front clip to sit correctly.

[55metalmonkey]

Adding on to what mr48chev said, if it's all lined up and good to go you could always price out what a mobile welder would charge. Not sure what your budget is but I can't imagine it would be too outragous, maybe a couple hundred. Just a thought

[1958Warrior]

I agree with buggy, the pie cut might be only 1/4-3/8" at most. And if you ask around local motor/machine/hotrod shops they're going to know some guys that do chassis work
that can weld it up for you. The mobile welder is also a good option. Let them come to you , cutting and tacking and moving the truck hauling it around not a good idea IMO.

But before you do the pie cut or whatever route you go , with the truck level where your going to work on it. Measure to the front of your frame horns and cross measure and write those measurements down and build a jig to hold your frame horns in place so your front sheet metal will all go back on with little effort.

[1958Warrior]

My 125 amp Craftsman welder did a pretty good job on welding up some pie cuts I had to do on the Camaro clip to get it narrowed up to fit in the frame rails. That was when I was welding in the garage, but when I tried out in the drive way ,no good , the voltage drop with the extension cord just couldn't get it hot enough and that was with 75/25 mix.,.125 thick metal was at its max on capability.
I tried flux core wire even in my new 220volt 190 amp welder just because they give you a small sample spool with the welder and it just comes out like hammered sh@t.
If you needed an excuse to get a new toy for Xmas , this looks like it. I picked up my Hobart off craigslist brand new in the box for $450, and I didn't ask any ?s ($700 retail+tax). but a good used one can be had for $400,and a good place to get tips is a site
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...ding-tips.html

If you do decide to get one, stick to Hobart/Miller or Lincoln parts are readily available, and .035 wire capable.
I'd rather pay myself than others, + you might just need some other stuff welded in the future... If you can weld with a 110v , you'll Love the 220v guaranteed.

[1project2many]

My best guess is that who ever put the stub on welded it on nose down in relation to the frame. The fix for that is cutting it off and welding it or a replacement back on straight.

Agree with that post with one additional suggestion. Changing subframe attached angle is a major project. It will affect steering shaft and driveline angles as well as many little details. If all these were corrected to "wrong" subframe angle, changing or modifying the control arm might be the best way to go. Years ago we used to buy kits to build our own tubular upper A arms and position the ball joint where we wanted. And when we couldn't get that through tech, we'd modify the stock upper arm.

[papastrk]

Mr48chevy is right about stick welding this. That weld will be every bit as strong as a mig weld, and possibly stronger based on who is welding with it. The stick welder is a different animal than mig. Mig weld can look good and not be a deep penetrating weld, but most of us have experience with the mig. Not as many are experienced with stick welding. A good stick welder can jump to a mig and make a great weld; not necessarily so going the other way. If you are decent with stick welding you can tack the frame in and have someone finish weld, or go stick weld completely. Just requires more cleanup. It would be nice to have a few pics of the graft area you have now. It may be easy to cut loose and reposition without completely starting over. Just a thought.

[_Ogre]

i disagree with all the posts above pertaining to fluxcore welders.
oem's use fluxcore wire to weld flanges and spring pads on heavy duty trucks because it has a penatrates better than mig
using fluxcore wire on a 120v wire welder is better than using a 120v mig welder, the fluxcore penetrates better than mig in the same amperage.

most of my truk was welded with a lincoln weldpak100 120v fluxcore welder, 20,000 miles later there are no weld failures.
all the frame and suspension work was done with this welder; mustII x-member, spring pads, trans x-member, shortened frame and boxed frame
pretty welds? no. good welds? yes.
most people that hate fluxcore have never used it or thought it had ugly welds. i'll take ugly over bad any day.

unless your proficient at arc welding i would not arc weld a frame
but the same goes for any welding on your suspension, unless you know how to weld properly, don't.
especially on your frame or suspension.

mig welding is usually not the best weld for most applications, it works, it can be good enough and it looks good; that's why people use it.
most beginner welders use too much heat because the welds look good and lay flat.
use the settings posted inside the welder cover for the best weld.

[1958Warrior]

Sorry didn't see what size welder you had, 140amp, will be good for up to 3/16" with gas and 5/16 with flux core, but I've never had good luck with flux core. Depends on your skills there. Your frame is only 1/8" thick, you should be ok ,with your welder. I would use gas with it, you get a much cleaner weld. I would recommend practice welding some 1/8" plate where you'll be working at, to see penetration, and see if you get any drop in voltage and be sure to be plugged into a outlet with a 20amp breaker .
If you weld it and weld some diamond shape fish plates over that your in good shape. I wouldn't cut the clip completely off, If you do a pie cut and leave it attached on bottom to hold it side to side it should hinge back easily, once again your pie cut would only need to be a 1/4" -5/16" .

[1958Warrior]

Here is a pic of what I meant by diamond fish plate over the weld .