Converting a 1 ton into a 1/2 ton???

[mikec4193]

HI everybody

I am in the process of getting a 1951 1 ton Chevy truck delivered to my house....it runs and moves but needs some TLC...(it is all stock)

I have been searching around and seeing what needs to be done to get it more highway friendly. From what I have read it seems that an S10-Blazer rearend and a 1/2 ton front axle with spindles, a newer dual master cylinder seems to help things along too.

Is there anybody on here that has documented this swap on a 1 ton Chevy truck??? I know finding brake parts and such for this size truck is really hard to do.

I am looking for something that I can work on....and leave as together as it is now but swap these parts out as I find them....

I want a good work truck with all the patina left on it too...

Any insight would be great.

MikeC

[whitedog76]

I believe that question was asked awhile back by someone. I doubt, you'll be able to use the 1/2 ton suspension. There's a 1/2" difference in the frame width. I'm sure that has to do with the 1 ton having 2" front leaves and the 1/2 ton having 1.75" leaves. Not to mention the 1 ton springs are longer.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...51ctsm0202.htm

In all reality, you probably wouldn't see a huge improvement in ride. Even though the 1 ton springs are heavier, The truck weighs more and is longer, which should soften things out a bit.

The front brake parts are the same as what you would find on the 3600 trucks. The rear brake parts for the 3800 are what's hard to come by. There's also no disc kits for them also.

Have you considered an axle swap from a 3/4 or 1 ton truck? The 14 bolt is a popular choice. I'm putting one in my 54 3600.

I'm planning on using Ford Ranger Leafs in the rear. They are longer, but the short side will have to go in the front to clear the running board mount.http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index....oducts_id=1508

[mikec4193]

HI Whitedog

I was wondering about the whole truck rear end swap myself...what era Chevy trucks do you think would work the best?...There is a fellow on the local Craigslist that is always parting out Chevy and GMC trucks. I am new to the truck stuff so any ideas would be great. I would like to keep bolt patterns the same on the front as is on the back....

I would like a lower gear so as to able me to run along with traffic. I dont want a speed demon but the Willys I just finished is bone stock and struggles to run along at 45 MPH...I would need something that could run along at 55 MPH or so and not sound like it wants to blow up...

Could I keep the 1 ton front axle and get new style brakes for it somewhere???

Thanks again for any help here.

MikeC

[mr48chev]

I'm thinking that the one ton frame is pretty well the same back to just behind the rear cab mounts. It is a lot heavier and i don't have my brother's 48 one ton here to compare with one of my frames.

Looking at the drawings here http://s173.photobucket.com/user/mr4...?sort=4&page=1

You should be able to compare measurments and see what you need to do to make the changes you want.

Your truck does use the pickup style bumper I am assuming. that means that it is the same width as the half and 3/4 tons in the places you need it to be. Heavier gauge frame rails or deeper frame rails further back don't really cause a problem except that as a half ton it will weigh a few more pounds than other half tons.

You will have to shorten the frame so you can get the correct wheelbase and frame length for the box you want to run unless you want to run a flatbed then make the frame and wheelbase what ever length spins your wheels.

If you lower the rear much you will have to C notch the frame over the rear axle to clear.

If you run a box and fenders you may have to work out the bed spacers to get the box on the same plane as the running boards. You want the top rail of the box parallel with the running boards so you don't get that droopy drawer diaper full of poop sag that a lot of guys who do the S-10 swap seem to like. on

Most of us would just go out and get a good 1/2 ton shortbed frame and hang the suspension under it and get it all slicked out and then lift the cab off the one ton frame and set it down on the half ton frame but that is the easy way.

On a side note I took a nice big window cab off a hacked half ton frame and put it on my brother's one ton as my grand father had rolled the one ton at one time and the cab was pretty beat and tweaked. I even had the nose off my 48 louvered hood and all sitting on the one ton at one time.

Have fun with it and keep us posted on pro

[chris j]

I am doing the same thing with a 50 GMC 1ton. I shortened the frame 20 inches I purchased a 3 inch drop axle for a 1/2 ton and a disc brake conversion from CPP. I hade to modify the holes on the axle to accommodate the 1/2 wider spring. I removed all but three springs and the axle fit great. I have not finished the front yet but will in the next week or so. In the back I am going to use a 61.25 wide ford 9 inch with 3.00 gears. I am going to change the stock mounts on the rear end so I can mount it under the springs as it was on the 1 ton, I will probably leave two or three springs in back I will figure that out when I get to that stage. I am going to put a 1/2 short bed on and use 15X8 wheels on the front and 15X10 on the back. My truck has a 270 with a 4 speed on the floor I am leaving that as it is. If you like keep in touch I am interested how yours goes and I can keep you up on mine.

[whitedog76]

There's no "modern" brakes setups for the 8 lug trucks. There's a few of us out there doing our own conversion.

I have a 14 bolt axle that I'm transplanting. It has 4.11 gears but I'm planning on a 3.73 or 3.42 gear swap. Depends on how she runs.

If you have a 3800 truck, talk with ChrisJ up on post #5 if want to do the half ton axle swap. He's the only one I know that has done it.

If you have a 3600 series truck, swapping in a front axle is easy. The 3100 and 3600 share the same frame from the cab on forward. All you do is find a 3100 front axle and bolt it in. The 3800 and larger trucks are different.

[coralhead]

Get in touch with Mechanicsman (spelling?) on front brake disc conversion. He is doing a great job on the research and caliper bracket manufacturing.

He has a 3800 he is getting roadworthy.

[mr48chev]

Chris J gave some good ideas in post #5. It might be simpler to just take a number of leaves out of the 1 ton front springs than swap springs. Maybe every other leaf to start to keep the stagger on the length even.

[mikec4193]

Oh my gosh you guys are awesome...

Do any of guys know where I can get a 1/2 ton front axle with spindles?? I have one on my rat rod but I dont really wanna tear into it then I still need to find one for the rat rod...

On another note

I read somewhere that Chevy made a 1 ton pickup truck with a 9 foot long box on it (is that so cool or what????)...I think I have even seen pictures somewhere too...I am currently also looking for a tailgate and fenders for the rear...I think I can come up with the stake pockets from that company in Oklahoma and then I have a friend that can put the bends in some 18 gauge steel and NAPA sells lengths of exhaust pipe that I can use for the top rail...I love to cut and weld...the box is gonna fun to build for me...

gathering the right parts...that is going to be the trick for sure...I dont want to rip this truck apart....I would like to fix this stuff in small steps...keep it running all the while if possible...

MikeC

[mechanixman]

Originally Posted by coralhead

Get in touch with Mechanicsman (spelling?) on front brake disc conversion. He is doing a great job on the research and caliper bracket manufacturing.

He has a 3800 he is getting roadworthy.

Hey Coralhead
Close enough! ha ha
Take a look at my build thread for my master cylinder. I'm using a standard dual master cylinder from a c10, and a G body dual diaphram brake booster.
Here is the page for disc conversion.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=586788
A quick summary of it so far,
Any 1 ton van or pickup 2001 or newer has the rotors you are looking for.
Any 3/4 or 1 ton trucks/vans have the calipers you're looking for. I've been told the rear seem to fit a little better.
Either way, I'm adding spacers between the rotor and the wheel to add for caliper clearance, and to let me attach the hubcaps more securely.
The only serious work to swap the 1 ton front drums to discs, are drilling out the hub for 9/16" studs, and making the caliper bracket.
And yeah! I'm loving the idea of a 9 foot bed. The problem is I want to use the bed strips from the LMC catalog, so I'm installing a toolbox to take up that 1.5-2 feet of extra space.
Here is a picture of my truck with a 3/4 ton bed.
I traded my cracked 216 for this set of 9ft bedsides a guy found in the swamp about an hour away from me.

[mikec4193]

So my thoughts are starting to change...leaving it what it is as a 1 ton truck but some upgrades like "Mechanixman" is doing on here...sounds a lot simpler that swapping all the other stuff around. I will be looking on the local Craigslist and start looking for a more modern rearend with some better gearing for a more traffic flow friendly vehicle when I get it done....

Just thinking out loud again...if anybody wants to add to these thoughts please I am all ears...

MikeC

[whitedog76]

Mike

I have a 14 bolt full floater that I'm planning on installing in my 54.

It's a 67" axle, but 63" axle can be found, your OEM axle is 62 5/8" wide.

Dually hubs will narrow up a 67" to 63", you'll have to use van brake drums though.

You can also use the Eaton hubs on the 14 bolt with different bearings though. The Eaton spindles are slightly larger than the 14 bolt.

Some guys have used rearends from Ford and Dodge vans with good luck.

You can also upgrade your "Huck" brakes to later style "Bendix" from a 52-59 truck for better braking.

Here's my axle http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/wh...24103083303173

Good 14 bolt info.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/

[mikec4193]

HI Whitedog

So what year and model is your rear end from? I have found out that most scrap yards around me have a data-base; based on make and model and year.
If was to go in and tell them I am looking for a 14 bolt full floater rear end I bet I would get a blank stare from the fellow at the desk...( I myself am not that clever either with all this rear end stuff either).

Any insight would be awesome.

I forgot from when I rebuilt the Willys that these Chevies seem to have a lot better interchangablity than do the vintage Jeeps do...I am enjoying reading about the stuff you guys do with these old trucks...

thank you everyone for posting your projects on here.

MikeC

[mechanixman]

Hey Mike,
I don't know much about the 14 bolt, but if you want to keep your rear end, you swap out the center piece for better gearing. The axle is callled an eaton HO72. In fact there is thread on this forum dedicated to putting 14 bolt guts into the HO72 carrier. If you want to get better gearing the easy way, find any 67-72 chevy 1 ton, sometimes the 3/4 tons. Models are c20, c30, k20,k30.

[whitedog76]

GM used a HO52 and HO72 until 1972. Typically, you'd find the HO52 in 3/4 ton trucks and some single wheel 1 ton trucks and the HO72 in Dually 1 ton trucks. The housings of the 2 axles are identical. The biggest difference between them is the HO72 has a 9.75 ring gear and the HO72 has a 11 inch ring gear. The center section from the two axles are entirely interchangable.

The 67-72 trucks used a HO52/HO72 with a 4.11 gearset in the AUTOMATIC equipped trucks with a 327 or larger engine. Everything else was a 4.57 or lower gear set.

The 4.11 gearset is getting really hard to come by. Most of them have been gobbled up by guys with older trucks or they've been sent to the crusher.

That's why I suggested the 14 bolt.

I have a 67" model from an 83 K20 truck. It's the "early" style, which was made from 73-88. I have some hubs from a 76 C30 that I was going to use to narrow it up, but decided to go with the Eaton hubs instead.

This link has the bearing numbers for the Eaton hubs on 14B axles. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=536119&page=3

The 89 and newer axles are actually slighty heavier duty. They have more support ribs in the center and the axle tubes are 3 1/2" vs. 3 3/8" for the early units.

GM did use Dana 60 and Dana 70 axles throughout the years also. My advice is to go to the junk yard with a tape measure in hand. Try to find the 63" model.

I found my axle on Craigslist. Usually, you can get a better deal from an individual than the scrap yard.

[mikec4193]

Hi Everyone

So if I am to find an axle out of a K20...there is a guy sorta local to me that is always parting them out on Craigslist. Do I want to look for a 4 wheel drive rear axle assembly or could I use a 2 wheel drive truck rear axle?

Also what is a good ball park price I should look to be paying for this rear end? Can I assume this will give me a 6 bolt pattern or an 8 bolt pattern on the brake drums? My goal would be to have the same pattern on both ends of the truck. Less hassle with a spare.

I think my local NAPA store should carry these brake parts just about in stock compared to trying to find a 1951 Chevy brake parts. I bet it will stop a little better too with the more modern design.

you guys are great on here.

Thanks so much for all the insight.

MikeC

[whitedog76]

It doesn't really matter, 2 or 4 wheel drive for the rear axle. They'll be the wider models, unless they're from a dually. If you want to narrow them up, you'll have to do something creative with the brakes. Such as a narrower drum.

All 14 bolt full floaters have 8 lugs. There is a "semi float" 14 bolt that has 6 and 8 lug patterns. You can tell it right away, due to the fact there is no hub sticking out past the wheel.

$200 is a pretty good price for a 14 bolt. $300 is getting a little on the steep side. They've been making these axles for 40 years, so it's not like they're rare!

[Russell Ashley]

Originally Posted by mikec4193

Oh my gosh you guys are awesome...

Do any of guys know where I can get a 1/2 ton front axle with spindles?? I have one on my rat rod but I dont really wanna tear into it then I still need to find one for the rat rod...

MikeC

I wish you were closer to Georgia. I'll be removing mine in a few weeks and it already has disk brakes, new king pins, and spring bushings.

[OrrieG]

I do not have time to do the search but haven't some guys used later model Ford rearends with discs that are a little narrower? Would probably have to redo the spring pads, but might solve wheel spacing issues? Just a random thought...