1952 Mass Title/ Vin Question

[gusman]

Hi Everyone,

Seeing if anyone has gone through anything similar and what steps were taken. I bought my 52 just bare sheet metal, from some old guy in NH with just a bill of sale. I have another thread on here where the serial number plate on the A-pillar isn't the original.. Regardless, I'm building this on a 97 Dakota Chassis which I have a clean and clear title to (just yanked the cab and bed off and throwing the chevy on). So the cab has no Vin or title, just a bill of sale which is decently water logged from going through the wash... but the frame, motor, trans are all legitly titles and at one point registered and on the road. I have reciepts for all reproduction metal used to repair the severe amounts of rot, as well as for all other parts (this thing was literally just sheet metal/ rot). Any ideas on a first step? Would this be registered as a replica vehicle? Should I try and find a cab with a title and just swap the vin plate and surrounding metal and use that title (ya it's illegal but I'm sure it's been done).

Thanks

[1project2many]

gusman, somehow I missed your VIN thread. The quote is from that thread and my reply follows:

NHTK 000163
1952 CHEVE PKUP

That's a NH DMV issued VIN. NHTK = New Hampshire TrucK. A previous owner voluntarily brought the vehicle in with documentation showing he purchased replacement cab/frame/engine/other VIN marked parts and asked the DMV to issue a new VIN. This means the state recorded the various mismatched VIN numbers and determined none of the numbers were (at the time) associated with stolen vehicles.

NH doesn't require titles for vehicles older than 15 years and depending on how long ago that VIN was affixed there may never have been a title with that number. NH will issue titles on vehicles older than 25 years at the owner's request although I wonder if they will issue one to a nonresident. MA deals with this frequently as we have a fair share of people who think spending money to title a vehicle only worth a coupla hunnered bucks is a waste and would never consider titling an old rig.

Based on my years living with the "flatlanders" I would say do not attempt to pass off the Dakota VIN as correct for the AD truck. If you are spotted, you will find the obstacles preventing successful registration are nearly insurmountable. As a "97 Dakota" your truck will need to meet emissions and safety standards required of other '97 vehicles. You will need seat belts, turn signals, and proper exterior lighting. Frame, chassis, or body changes will need inspection and approval by state authority (not the local inspection shop, either). It can take years. I've seen it happen. Follow up on the NHTRK number with the NH DMV. Get the PO to sign another bill of sale if possible. Ask NH if they will issue a title if necessary (It's $25, a small price compared to the big picture). Some reference links:

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/dmv/title/faq.htm

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/d...ply/exempt.htm

https://secure.rmv.state.ma.us/Polic...wresidents.htm

(partial quote from the above link:
New Hampshire: Titles were first issued beginning in 1968. Titles are required for vehicles with a model year 15 years old and newer. Antique vehicles 26 years old or older may be titled on request. Upon transfer of ownership, every vehicle must be titled besides noted exceptions. EXCEPTIONS are: vehicles owned by the United States; vehicles owned by a manufacturer or dealer and held for sale, even though incidentally moved on the highway or used for purposes of testing or demonstration or a vehicle used by a manufacturer solely for testing; a vehicle owned by a nonresident of this state and not required by law to be registered in this state; a vehicle regularly engaged in the interstate transportation of persons or property for which a currently effective Certificate of Title has been issued in another state; a vehicle moved solely by animal power; an implement of husbandry; special mobile equipment; a self-propelled wheel chair or invalid tricycle; a snow traveling vehicle; trailers with a gross weight of less than 3,001 pounds; 15 model year vehicles and older, except heavy trucks (three or more axles) whose gross vehicle weight exceeds 18,000 pounds; truck-tractors (Peterbuilt, Mack, Kenworth, Freightliner, etc.), regardless of their model year; off-road vehicles; ATVs; trail-bikes; snowmobiles; mopeds; mobile homes; and watercraft. No Title or Duplicate Title will be issued on any exempt vehicle, even by request.
Of course this last bit doesn't apply to 26 yr old and older vehicles.

[gusman]

Wow... by far the most helpful piece of information I have found/ been replied to on any forum/ search I have conducted. Thanks so much! I have a few buddies who like in NH. I will read through the links you posted and see if I can get them to get a title for me, and then "buy" the truck from one of them. Thanks so much for the info!

[gusman]

live in NH*

[1project2many]

You will need to provide a bill of sale from a NH resident in order for this to work. The resident should be the last known owner but of course there are cases where a truck trades hands several times before its fixed up. Just remember, if the vehicle is bought in a state that requires a title, NH will want to see the title even though they won't issue a new one.

If you do not have a previous registration (which I'm sure you don't) there is also a "VIN Verification Form" that will need to be completed. It's simple, but it must be filled out by a policeman, a NH DMV employee, or a NH state certified vehicle inspector. The person filling out the form is supposed to actually look at the vehicle to obtain the VIN. They sign the form attesting they have not obtained the info from any other source and your done. Make sure the person helping you is willing / able to help with all the paperwork.

You're being careful but some of the work may not be necessary. Several years ago I owned a '72 C30 ramp truck that was loaned to the race team I helped from western MA. It was registered here in NH but never titled. After the team stopped racing in 2009 I sold the truck to a MA resident. He reported no troubles registering the truck.

[_Ogre]

what ever you do make sure all the paperwork is legit before pouring money into the 52
while 1p2m's post has good info, start with dmv or highway patrol
all the knowledge on this forum is worthless if the paperwork trail is not done right
and if you ever get a title or registration to the 52, keep the dakota paperwork with the truck in case there is ever a question

[gusman]

In regards to the above reference vin there are no records of that VIN on file.. All NH issued VINS are issued solely with the prefix of NH.

Once you have completed putting together the truck you will need to obtain a NH issued VIN. On our website http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/dmv/forms/index.htm This will take you to all DMV related forms. The two forms you’re looking for is the Antique affidavit TMDV 105 and DSMV 545F salvage locations.

The salvage locations is where you need to bring the vehicle too once it has been completed. You will also need to provide bills of sales for major component parts i.e. the frame engine transmission if they were obtained from another vehicle.

If you wish to obtain an antique title you will need to complete an antique affidavit, only if you do not have a prior title or a prior original or certified copy of a registration along with the DSMV 547 form. The DSMV will be given to you once the NH issued vin has been issued.


If I can be of further service please email me directly.

That's the reply I got after emailing NH... still waiting for MA to reply. Changed the story with MA up a bit saying I just bought the cab which was so badly rusted out that the location where the serial tag was, was completely gone. Gonna see what they say.

[mr48chev]

I agree with Ogre 100% in that what ever state you live in or try to title the truck in you need DOCUMENTATION that proves you own the truck and all parts were obtained legally.

The title to the Dakota is great as it shows you have that part of the truck legally.

The bill of sale for the cab is good but you might want to put a couple of photos of the cab as you found it in with that show it as you found it at the swap meet or right after when you took that hauling it home on the trailer photo.

Same with the engine and trans. documentation on where they came from and how you got them. If you scrapped a car or truck to get the engine and trans and sold the hulk with title to the scrap yard the slip they gave you at the scrap yard when they paid you is pretty good proof in it's self.

The state usually only whats to know that you came by the pieces legally and that they were legal to come by and hopefully that the truck you assembled is safe to drive on the road both for you and your passengers and for those driving down the road alongside you. Some are real concerned on how much they are going to tax you but that is a totally different issue.

Get a three ring binder (WalMart has them for about a buck. Put a batch of "page savers" in it and put together a build book that you can methodically go through to show the inspector what you did and how you came by the parts. Not every detail and every nut and bolt but start with the bill of sale for the cab and a photo or two of the bare cab.
Add the title to the Dakota or a copy of it and maybe a photo of the truck and a photo of the stripped chassis.

Add the documentation on the engine. Even if it is a note from Cousin Henry saying that it is the worn out engine that he pulled out of his truck when he installed the crate motor.

Wheels and tires might not seem important but if you have a spendy set of rims and tires it might be prudent to have the receipt for them. That eliminates any question about them.

You might want to add a weight slip from a certified scales like the one in the photo in the (look what my truck weighed) thread. You will have to have it eventually and that solves that issue.

The main thing is have your ducks all lined up in a nice neat military row when you go in and do the title thing.

[1project2many]

With number 000163 I imagine that's a pretty old assignment. Probably pre-computers by a few generations. I could see the record being lost over time. With no records available, I would expect a VIN re-issue is probably easiest. If I happened to be able to show that I had built a replica cab from scratch I'd present the title for the Durango, any bills of sale for other major components, and not worry about no VIN on the cab. But you're in MA so you'd need help from a NH resident.

The antique affidavit is no big deal. I filled one out for a '36 Plymouth that was in the family since new. There's a funny story with it but what matters is that it's a simple form.
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/d...ts/tdmv105.pdf

Salvage locations:
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/d...s/dsmv545f.pdf

Also the previously mentioned VIN verification:
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/d...ts/tdmv19a.pdf

Note that the Manchester salvage inspection location, about a mile from where I'm typing this, inspects a *lot* of junk. The troopers appreciate brevity, complete paperwork, and a well constructed vehicle. All the tips posted by Mr48Chevy are spot on.


The NH DMV deals with this often enough. How the process goes depends on how willing and able the person building the truck is to understand and follow the letter and intention of the governing laws and rules.

[gusman]

Thanks for all of the information and suggestions. I think I am going to start a binder and print out all reciepts of sheet metal, the water washed bill of sale for the cab, put in the title to the dakota (which the engine and trans were in prior to tear down). I have the reciept for the motor (rebuilt and ran it in the dakota for like a year), reciept for the trans etc.. I have many pics of work on the cab I will include, a lot which show there wasn't a whole lot of sheet metal left to it to begin with. I think I might try and ignore the NH tag thing and try and re-title it in mass with all the reciepts and evidence that go along with everything I have. I think that having the frame/ motor/ trans all being titled to me and previously registered, as well as the dakota cab sitting in the woods with the vin tag still on it, should help greatly. I will keep everyone updated when the time comes to try and re-title.. I'd expect mid winter or so.

In Mass, does anyone know if just any statie can go through everything and inspect it? Would be a lott less nerve wracking if my buddy could do it.

[OrrieG]

I have never had a title issue with my truck, but since it has so many parts that came off of so many different vehicles I have kept all the receipts, title copies, etc. in the aforementioned binder too. Also something good to have to pass on to the next owner if you ever sell it, or next generation if it stays in the family.

[gusman]

Okie dokie so I'm back. Been working a lot on the truck, and hitting my head on the wall with the title issue. I ended up buying a vin tag off a guy who had a rotted away cab.. but no title. So woooo I have a vin! (or serial number). Anyone know what a good next step would be? Should I try one of those title service places? I've also heard of selling it to a buddy in Maine, and having him title it there as it is a non title state or something.. then buy it back? Anyone with any experience? I feel like I'm half way closer now that I have a serial number & tag

[OrrieG]

Have you looked at these? I think you need to take a trip to the DMV. There is a lot of internet infor on VIN swapping, bottom line seems to be you can R&R for repairs to the vehicle, but anything else is subjective and can fall under fraud statutes. Something else to remember is that you need to make sure you are not doing anything that will keep you from selling the vehicle or a new owner coming back on you if he has title/registrations issues.

these are the general regs
http://www.massrmv.com/rmv/regs/

this looks more applicable to what you want to do
http://www.massrmv.com/rmv/titles/assignedVIN.htm

[iowaboynca]

Originally Posted by gusman

In Mass, does anyone know if just any statie can go through everything and inspect it? Would be a lott less nerve wracking if my buddy could do it.

Have you asked your friend (if he's a state cop) for advice too?

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by gusman

Okie dokie so I'm back. Been working a lot on the truck, and hitting my head on the wall with the title issue.

that is highly illegal in most, if not all states
i recommend you delete all that info or ask a mod to do it for you
it's one thing to discuss with your best bud, not something i'd let out on a public forum

[gusman]

Well from the sounds of it, it still seems like my best route is to go through the process of making a binder of any and all reciepts (literally have a reciept for everything on the truck as well as the title and reg of the chassis and motor from the donor).. and do the state inspection process and have it registered as a custom built rather than a true 1952. Wanted to try and get around that but since the other method is turning up a general consensus as "sketchy".. I guess it's time to buy a binder and start scrap booking. Thanks everyone!

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Hope you get this worked out. But, since you seem to be asking also about illegal ways to get a title, this thread is being closed.
Any discussion of an illegal nature is against forum rules.