What does "original" mean?

[sodly]

This article from Hemmings isn't specifically about trucks but I think it deserves our attention. Unfortunately, the word "original" is thrown around so carelessly when it comes to vehicles that it's almost meaningless.

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...ls/?refer=news

[LT1 Burb]

My Chevelle is all original.

[Micmac]

It is also beautiful!

[turbohounds]

Originally Posted by LT1 Burb

My Chevelle is all original.

Love it - I have a '65 also and can safely say the only original piece is the dash panel Unless you count NOS parts.

[TJ's Chevy]

Original means...COMPLETELY UNTOUCHED. Once a truck is "restored" it will never be original again...it can only be restored to factory specs....but never can be called an "all original frame off resto".....for simple reasons...the paint isn't the exact paint they used...tires aren't, hardly any parts are made in america...so...not original.

[VictoriaHardware]

The original article states:

An original car, regardless of its age, make, model or country of origin, still wears all of the same parts that the factory workers bolted on to it when it rolled along the assembly line during its manufacture.

What they really should say is "the same parts that it left the factory with". Anyone who has worked at an auto assembly plant (whether it be American, Japanese, or European) knows that few cars get out of the plant without some kind of repair after leaving the end of the line. Parts get replaced and paint gets re-sprayed. There is this misconception that the assembly line ends and the car rolls right onto a rail car for shipment, and that is far from the case.

If you want to see for yourself, take a tour of one OR go to google maps and zoom in on a plant. Look at all the cars parked outside that are clearly not just waiting to be loaded for shipment. They are waiting for repair. That's not a bad thing, they are trying to get it all right, but it does not just all fall together exactly how the end customer would like to receive it.

[chevyrestoguy]

Original: Unrestored, unmodified, as it was from the day it left the dealership.

To me, the most misused term in the hobby is NOS (New, Old stock).
A brand new reproduction part is NOT NOS.
A rusty, original part pulled from a parts car is NOT NOS.
NOS means that the part is an original GM part, in it's original GM packaging, and is unused (never installed).

Sorry, that term drives me nuts when it's misinterpreted.

[oem4me]

At the risk of being redundant, I'll restate that "all-original" would only apply to a vehicle which remained exactly as it rolled off the line, before ANY part of it was replaced or reconditioned. I think it's fairly safe to say that nothing like this exists in the classic car/truck world. Does that make it a useless term? No, not quite.
Arguably, the condition of a vehicle when new is the standard by which any partial or complete restoration is judged, or by which a claimed "original" is compared.
Similarly, the definition of "perfect" can be found in any dictionary and despite its common use, nothing truly perfect exists. Well, not here on earth anyway, but that's another argument.
So, rather than argue endlessly over word usage and true meaning, we all need to accept that the term "original" is going to be abused and that it's only good for comparison to an ideal anyway.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by oem4me

At the risk of being redundant, I'll restate that "all-original" would only apply to a vehicle which remained exactly as it rolled off the line, before ANY part of it was replaced or reconditioned. I think it's fairly safe to say that nothing like this exists in the classic car/truck world.

I can give a couple examples.

My '65 GTO is in original, unrestored condition. My dad was the original owner; he and I went down to pick the car up the day after my sister was born (instead of going to see her and my mom in the hospital).

It has the factory applied "born with" exterior paint, interior and driveline. All hoses, belts, plug wires, brakes, light bulbs, etc, are the ones originally installed in Pontiac. It has 4900 (four thousand, nine hundred) original miles.

The car is a reference to other enthusiasts restoring their car and I spend a lot of time taking pictures and responding to questions on routings and part markings.

The photos below were taken a couple years ago at what remains of the original selling dealership: Royal Pontiac, at 400 N Main in Royal Oak Michigan.

Further info, for those that might be interested in more history:

Short summary: http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...hp?albumid=184

Medium version: http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990396621018

Long version: http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=560524

[Keith Seymore]

There is another car that I am aware of that is less molested than mine.

The late Ed Lis owned a black Kansas City produced '65 GTO which is purported to have 4200 (four thousand two hundred) original miles. Same deal: born with paint, interior and driveline, with no known modifications.

I do not know what has happened to it (or what the plans are for it) since his untimely passing. I tend to watch this one as it trades hands, particularly to track its value.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by oem4me

So, rather than argue endlessly over word usage and true meaning, we all need to accept that the term "original" is going to be abused and that it's only good for comparison to an ideal anyway.

Similar to the word "survivor".

It seems these days that if a vehicle still "exists"....then it's a "survivor".

I'm a little sensitive about that one, as you might imagine.

K

[supercharged]

If you notice most folks that claim to have an all original car often follow up the boast with the same word..."except"...

[sodly]

I agree with oem4me that few, if any, truly 100% original (vintage) trucks exist. I know the Hemmings article takes a hard line on what constitutes "original." Personally, I still consider a vehicle to be original even if some of the consumable parts (belts, hoses, brakes, tires, etc) have been faithfully replaced over the years. As long as they've been replaced with OEM parts and the truck doesn't deviate from the way the factory built it, it's still "original" to my way of thinking.

Probably the single biggest litmus test for originality in my book is factory-original paint. If it's been repainted it sure as heck isn't original anymore. Nor is it a "survivor." At least not to me.

But when you start talking about things like original fluids and original air in the tires... I think that's a nearly impossible standard. Even the Lambrecht trucks probably wouldn't meet those criteria.

[oem4me]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Further info, for those that might be interested in more history:

Short summary: http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...hp?albumid=184

Medium version: http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990396621018

Long version: http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=560524

Wow, Keith. That's one heck of a special car! I quickly read the short and medium version of the story and now I'm looking forward to my next chunk of quality "me time" so I can enjoy the long version. Pretty darn freakin cool!

[LT1 Burb]

Originally Posted by oem4me

Wow, Keith. That's one heck of a special car! I quickly read the short and medium version of the story and now I'm looking forward to my next chunk of quality "me time" so I can enjoy the long version. Pretty darn freakin cool!

Yeah it was, your dad was ultra cool too, great story.

[aerotruk63]

Original, but what about GM recalls that Service Bulletins required dealerships to perform? A preinspection was required for every new vehicle, which could include paint touch up as well, plus many other mods that were required?
Original to me is when the truck, is considered a original finish product, once it recieves it's dealer installed GM APPROUVED ACCESSORIES, and the new owner drives off the lot. Every procces the truck goes through before the new owner is handed the keys is still part of the GM build.

[61K10]

maybe we should say restored back to original looking. my tk looks kinda org. A few things are not org of course. not many perfect originals like the 65 gto around. most people that bought a car had to drive it. well at least i did when young. I wish my Dad was into car's back in the day.

[RANDY COX]

61K10 glad to see the ole girl back together I'm sure you are to....

[60-66]

I agree with the comments above . Although, having been a member of the VCCA Vintage Chevrolet Club of America for awhile now, Their HPOCF HISTORICALY PRESERVED ORIGINAL CHEVROLET FEATURES . I believe their rules are for all 4 categories of the vehicle must have no more than 25% of the car restored or refurbished in each group.

Quote "
1. The car is "certified" in 4 areas. Chassis/Undercarriage, Engine and compartment, exterior and finally interior.
2. HPOCF cars are NOT point judged.
3. 75% of each of the 4 areas should be original. For ex. If the car has been repainted, the exterior would not qualify since more than 75% of the exterior is the paint job. Therefore the exterior would not be certified.
4. Only 2 of the 4 areas listed under Point #1 need to qualify. So if the only "restoration" on the Chevrolet is a new paint job, then it might just make it in the other 3 areas.
5. The owner of the car participates in the certification process for HPOCF. He talks with the HPOCF certification team as they look to certify the car in at least 2 areas.

If your car is a true survivor and is basically unrestored, then HPOCF may be for you. Just remember, you need to qualify in at least 2 of the 4 areas. So an all original car, with a engine and engine compartment that has been restored, can still make it in HPOCF. End Quote"

Cars like Keiths above are really in a class by themselves IMOP .(WOW!) But according to some of the bigger clubs VCCA and I believe AACA there are exceptions to the rules . I personally don't mind trying to bring one back to that "Original" standard if the truck deserves it. 100% in all these categories these days is pretty tough and I really enjoy the bringing it back , fun of restoration, hunting for NOS GM parts and learning what went where. Its a hobby.

Keith, one question I get often and really don't get a very good answer on is , Why did you and your Father choose to drive the car so little ? Most people beat the crap out of a car like that . How could you resist ? I guess now that I'm in my fifties I know life gets busy and most of my stuff just sits and some of it is because I'm afraid of some idiot hitting it. But back then there was much less traffic than today. Just curious.

Jon

[LT1 Burb]

So Jon, my chevelle wears the original paint, interior and the drive train has never been out. If I rebuild the engine which it needs as the seals are shot from sitting, and just clean up the engine compartment and paint the motor would it still fit that 75% status.

[60-66]

Well, Im not a judge , just pointing out other views on what "original" means to different groups . By what I read and quoted above it looks like that's okay in the eyes of the VCCA but if it were me I would speak with one of their judges. What and how do you plan to show the car ? Can you state its original as the way Hemmings points out ? Theres many other clubs, shows etc like the recent MCACN in Chicago last week that the rules may be different for . I guess I would investigate their guidelines . Original, Survivor etc. all have basically the same meaning but true judging should be explained before making changes if it matters to you.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 60-66

Keith, one question I get often and really don't get a very good answer on is , Why did you and your Father choose to drive the car so little ? Most people beat the crap out of a car like that . How could you resist ? I guess now that I'm in my fifties I know life gets busy and most of my stuff just sits and some of it is because I'm afraid of some idiot hitting it. But back then there was much less traffic than today. Just curious.

Jon

In our case dad got sick and couldn't drive it.

It was intended to be a race car from day one so it racked up miles from 1965 to 1967 a quarter mile at a time. It's never seen snow and very few times in the rain. In 1974 he was diagnosed with debilitating rheumatoid arthritis. He couldn't push the clutch in so the car was parked, neglected, and sat in an unheated garage for about twenty years.

It had 4656.2 miles on it the whole time I was growing up, so I've put about 300 miles on it since his passing.

[oem4me]

I think the VCCA is pretty lenient with their guidelines to qualify a HPOCF vehicle. I'm not saying they will let obvious issues go unnoticed, but rather that their aim is to promote preservation as opposed to restoration or modification.
That particular judging class is not exclusive, but inclusive, and that's a good thing.
Generally speaking, past owners of less-than-perfect classics often felt compelled to bring their vehicles up to show standards in order to get the attention they desired. This blanket "it has to be shiny to be pretty" philosophy has been the ruination of untold numbers of really special survivors over the years.
A perfect example of this thinking and proof that it still exists, is the recent Lambrecht truck which was listed on Ebay after a full restoration which included incorrect details and the use of some cheap aftermarket parts. It's now a very pretty truck to be sure, but it went from mythically interesting to plain boring in the process.
BTW, my 66 C-10 was VCCA certified nearly 100% in all four categories and was voted by committee to be the National winner, or "Best of the Best" for all unrestored HPOCF cars OR trucks in the 2010 season. In my book, it's pretty cool that a simple plain-jane work truck can take top honors in a nationwide organization.
Oh I'm sorry, is my pride showing?

[sodly]

Good stuff, guys. Keep it coming. I wasn't even sure if any of these clubs even accepted pickups in their ranks. It's cool that some of them do. Or maybe they all do.